I don't get it

[daycare]

i have a dck who is almost 4. will turn 4 end of december.

i have had this family for about 4.5 years having their older sibling in my care before.

dck has been with me since 18 months.

the child DOES NOT SLEEP.
parents don't enforce sleep, but lay dck to bed at 830pm, kid does everything to stay awake and often does not fall asleep until midnight, sometimes later.

dck is at my house daily at 8am, FT

the child will not nap here either, despite falling asleep at circle time and etc, we try to lay down and the child will NOT fall asleep. You see the child and you think OMG what happened to them. I have even had other parents ask what happend to them.

the child when overly tired just doesn't talk and will just do anything to keep themselves awake. Like pick at lip, knot up hair, pull sock string etc.

today, dck fell out of the chair at breakfast because they were so tired. I laid dck down and he never fell alseep. it's nap time, NOPE still not a sleep. the kid did not even sleep 6.5 hours and this is the norm for this child.

The child is very smart, I can't being to tell you what this child can do academically, but I am more concerned about health over all and the lack of sleep.

I have tired the your child is too tired to participate and it doesnt work. Mom just comes and picks him up.

they went to the doctor and of course they won't do anything. The parents have lots of issues with the child, I don't. The child is too tired to do anything most days he sits and stares at the wall. No smiles, no laughs and etc.

I am about to do my 6 month DRDP and ASQ/SE with the family and child, but I just don't know what to do with this issue.

the child just will NOT sleep.

[Heidi]

http://www.webmd.com/children/guide/sleep-disorders-children-symptoms-solutions

They need to ask the doctor AGAIN...and AGAIN...and the next doctor. People need to be advocates for their child.

[spedmommy4]

I agree wholeheartedly. This was one of the many problems I had with a dcb I just terminated care for. Lack of sleep was one of the many things that was making his days here exceptionally challenging. Lack of sleep affects every individual differently. The parents I worked with never stepped up to advocate for their child. I hope yours do. Sounds like he needs medical intervention at this point.

[Ariana]

Wow that is crazy! So you have tried putting him to bed as soon as he nods off on the carpet during circle time or during lunch and that doesn't work either?

I have never seen a kid like this

[mamamanda]

Maybe a nutritional deficiency? My son required topical magnesium gel to sleep. I would definitely request a repeat visit to the dr.

[Thriftylady]

I think they need a second and maybe a third opinion. My daughter had a pedi we loved for years, kept telling us DD had a "snot nosed cough and cold". We moved and changed doctors and found out she had asthma.

[Unregistered]

My daughter had this issue...she was the cat napper as a baby, and refused to go to sleep later and later at night. She stopped taking naps during the day at 2, and would just NOT go to sleep. She was exhausted, and would pick fights with me, the kids, anybody. She was just worn out and not getting enough sleep can really mess with a person's personality. She couldn't concentrate in pre-k and definitely not in the daycare.

She was on basically a newborn sleeping schedule until she turned 3. I had talked to pediatrician several times, and finally I had a nurse practitioner one day ask me about any family history of sleeping issues.

It turns out that both my husband and mother-in-law have similar issues - they just manage it better as adults.

Their bodies just do not naturally produce enough melatonin to go to sleep. Their bodies are exhausted, but their brains just can't relax.

Well, she started taking 3 mg of over the counter melatonin, and it was a PRAISE JESUS! moment. LOL.

Suddenly, I had a sweet little girl again. All of those behavioral issues started to get better, and she gets a full 12-14 hours of sleep at night. I give her the melatonin at 7 p.m., and she is asleep by 7:30 every night! (I used to have to put her back to sleep repeatedly until she finally collapsed at midnight, and then woke up every 2 hours with nightmares). She is usually up at 8:30 to get to kindergarten at 9:30.

They need to ask their doctor about the melatonin to see if it would help him, and all of a sudden you would have a engaged, happy child.

[Blackcat31]

My daughter had this issue...she was the cat napper as a baby, and refused to go to sleep later and later at night. She stopped taking naps during the day at 2, and would just NOT go to sleep. She was exhausted, and would pick fights with me, the kids, anybody. She was just worn out and not getting enough sleep can really mess with a person's personality. She couldn't concentrate in pre-k and definitely not in the daycare.

She was on basically a newborn sleeping schedule until she turned 3. I had talked to pediatrician several times, and finally I had a nurse practitioner one day ask me about any family history of sleeping issues.

It turns out that both my husband and mother-in-law have similar issues - they just manage it better as adults.

Their bodies just do not naturally produce enough melatonin to go to sleep. Their bodies are exhausted, but their brains just can't relax.

Well, she started taking 3 mg of over the counter melatonin, and it was a PRAISE JESUS! moment. LOL.

Suddenly, I had a sweet little girl again. All of those behavioral issues started to get better, and she gets a full 12-14 hours of sleep at night. I give her the melatonin at 7 p.m., and she is asleep by 7:30 every night! (I used to have to put her back to sleep repeatedly until she finally collapsed at midnight, and then woke up every 2 hours with nightmares). She is usually up at 8:30 to get to kindergarten at 9:30.

They need to ask their doctor about the melatonin to see if it would help him, and all of a sudden you would have a engaged, happy child.

I'm glad you and your daughter are getting the sleep you need but a word of caution... melatonin is not safe for long term use.

It is beneficial for assisting in re-aligning your sleep rhythms but the side effects are negative in regards to a child's adolescent maturation process.

It's always wise to discuss the use of melatonin with your doctor and make sure he/she is aware of how often and how much and for how long you are using melatonin with your child.


"Infants and children: Melatonin should not be used in most children. It is POSSIBLY UNSAFE. Because of its effects on other hormones, melatonin might interfere with development during adolescence."

(http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supple...Name=MELATONIN)

[Unregistered]

I went to the web site, and read the possible side effects. It says it is POSSIBLY UNSAFE. Based on the recommendation of both the nurse practitioner, pediatrician and family members, its benefits far outweigh the POSSIBLE side effect of interfering with hormonal development. She takes a very low dosage that allows her to interact normally with other children and be in a happier frame of mind.

I think this is directed toward the parents who just want their kids to go to sleep and hand them a pill, like Benadryl. Please do not scare off people who really need to have this hormone supplement.

[Blackcat31]

I went to the web site, and read the possible side effects. It says it is POSSIBLY UNSAFE. Based on the recommendation of both the nurse practitioner, pediatrician and family members, its benefits far outweigh the POSSIBLE side effect of interfering with hormonal development. She takes a very low dosage that allows her to interact normally with other children and be in a happier frame of mind.

I think this is directed toward the parents who just want their kids to go to sleep and hand them a pill, like Benadryl. Please do not scare off people who really need to have this hormone supplement.

Please don't recommend using melatonin without also recommending that a parent discuss the usage with their pediatrician first.

Taking advice from a virtual stranger on a public forum has it's dangers too.

It's benefits may or may not outweigh the possible side effects as that is merely a personal opinion. For many parents that may simply not be true.

My child also had sleep issues and when I discussed use of melatonin with my child's pediatrician he recommended that we NOT use it because of the side effects.

Feeling as though I should get a second opinion, I saw another physician (3 more in fact) over a few months time and was ultimately told the same thing by each of them.

So again, its safety is debatable and is a choice each parent must make on their own with the guidance and input from their own family physician.

My point was, as I said in my first post....it's always best to talk with your child's Dr BEFORE use.

That is in NO way a scare tactic for parents

[Blackcat31]

Please don't recommend using melatonin without also recommending that a parent discuss the usage with their pediatrician first.

Apologies, as I see in your first post you did recommend that that the OP have the parents talk with their Dr.

However, my statements on the difference in beliefs in regards to dangers and/or negative side effects from use still stands.

Its safety IS debatable and until there is definite proof one way or another, I would still not feel comfortable recommending it for a child.

[Unregistered]

agree to disagree

I don't want to get too bogged down in my doctor vs. your doctor...we may just have to agree to disagree.

I do want the original poster and any others reading this thread who have children with sleep issues to make an informed decision. Always talk to your pediatrician, and if you have questions or concerns, go see other specialists.

Here is what I know based on our own experience: I had to make a judgment call as a parent based on the health and well-being of my child. Is the cure worse than the disease? She also takes a medication for a kidney condition, and that has side effects. But without it, she would be even worse off than she is taking it.

Sleep deprivation can lead to heart disease, diabetes, cognitive thinking delays, etc. It isn't something to mess around with hoping it will get better with age. The problem with giving medicine to children is that we aren't sure what will happen in the long run as there aren't enough longitudinal studies.

But I can tell you that she had some of the same issues as the child mentioned in the original post - inattention, tiredness, not being able to sleep, behavioral issues, etc. My daughter literally had a 180 degree turnaround within a couple days of taking melatonin - because her body just didn't produce enough of it and going without it was negatively affecting her. She told me she was sad that she was always tired, feeling grumpy and having trouble playing with her friends nicely. It was affecting her self-confidence and personality.

As a provider, I would ask the parents to talk to their pediatrician about all the different reasons the child could be having these issues - and they should also talk to their relatives as there could be a family history involved.

But don't refuse to give the child the medicine they need to cure a significant problem because of fears down the future that may or may not happen.