New kid, struggling with behavior

[daycare]

I have a new dck that started with us and is on their second week here. child is part time 3 full days a week.

The kid started out great the first day and then went down hill after that.

here is what is going on and I have NO clue how to handle.

arrival, screaming, crying typical new kid stuff. I tell dck you can be upset, but no screaming and they respond to that quiet well. the crying is so loud that i move dck to the crying spot to play alone quietly. Then getting dck out of the crying spot is almost next to impossible.

any time I or any of my staff try to talk to dck, he grunts and makes really ugly faces and noises at us. does not matter what is going on. its very annoying and I don't know what to do or say. I tried saying please use your words then ended up saying, don't make those noises at us, we don't like it. Nothing works. No matter what time of day, or what is going on, the kid grunts the noises at us and flat out refuses to talk.

This is the first time dck has ever been in any kind of program. Prior to this dck is with grandparents. DCP told me that the dck does the noises at home and gets into trouble for it.


then there is meal time

Meal time I can handle this one, but let me know if you think this is too harsh.

As soon as we say it's time to eat, dck screams, btw dck is 4.5 years old. So I will tell dck same as in the morning, you can be upset, but you can't scream. so Back off to the crying spot we go. I have tried to have dck join the kids, but the screaming is too loud and upsetting to the other kids, so crying spot it is. I save food and when all of the other kids are done, we try to have dck go eat, but dck screams and refuses to come out of the crying spot. The funny thing is, the only time dcks does not scream or cry is when in the crying spot. In the end, the kid ends up not eating at any of the meals. we are trying our best to offer the meals, but with no success do we ever get him to the table without screaming and crying. Parents said dck does this at home too with meal times.

so basically if we leave dck in the crying spot dck is fine. otherwise its crying, grunting and refusal to listen to anything we do or say.

HELP. this child is very smart, can talk very well and I am not too sure how to combat this one.

all my bag of tricks are gone.

wanted to edit to add. dcp are on board with any ideas I have and are just as lost as I am with all of this. they said they really want to help and are asking me for ideas so they can help him at home too. Ive got ZERO

[Ariana]

Wow that sounds tough because you are getting him very late in the game so to speak. Since everything seems to involve punishing bad behavior, have you thought about ignoring and then encouraging good behavior? Some kids get so used to being punished that it does absolutely nothing for them. He obviously has trust and anger issues with adults so it might be a good idea to try and win that trust back. There is an old saying that the kid who needs the most love is the kid who is the hardest to love. I know it will be hard but my gut says that this child needs some tenderness and care. At 3 days a week it will be tough.

[auntymimi]

Wow that sounds tough because you are getting him very late in the game so to speak. Since everything seems to involve punishing bad behavior, have you thought about ignoring and then encouraging good behavior? Some kids get so used to being punished that it does absolutely nothing for them. He obviously has trust and anger issues with adults so it might be a good idea to try and win that trust back. There is an old saying that the kid who needs the most love is the kid who is the hardest to love. I know it will be hard but my gut says that this child needs some tenderness and care. At 3 days a week it will be tough.

See, I don't see the cry spot as punishment, exactly. Since they can exit the cry spot whenever they are done tantruming, I see it more as a safe space for a child to express their emotions while granting the rest of the kids and myself the right to a peaceful environment. I'd let him sit in the cry spot all day if that's what he wanted to do, but I bet he won't. He can choose to eat or not at the table with his friends but screaming because he's offered food is not ok. Imo 4.5 yo is a little too old for that kind of nonsense. Has he been tested for delays, I wonder?

[Heidi]

I agree with both the PP's.

If he wants to stay in the "crying spot" all day, let him. Invite him to join in, if he says no or screams, say "ok, if you change your mind, you can come join us", shrug your shoulders, and walk away.

He's probably just overwhelmed. Give him a couple weeks. He'll get to know you.

Maybe the "calming place" is a better name?

Also, you might need 2 for a while? What if someone else needs it? I assume you already have some quiet things in there, like a few stuffed animals, maybe a sensory bottle, and some books?

The ideal is for the children to go there willingly before they freak out, but I haven't had a whole lot of luck with that.

[daycare]

We call it the thinking spot, chill cubby all kinds of funny names
It's not a form of punishment. It's for them to unwind, feel safe, take a break, chill out, it's not for bad behavior.

We do have lots of loving comforting things.

I think you guys are rights just need to leave him be and let him come out when he wants. It's Friday dance party day and he did crawl out to watch us.

Not sure he needs an Eval. Dcm even agreed he's doing it to be defiant.

I've never had a kid at this age so this. I am going to have to just ignore his unwanted grunts.

Thanks for all of your help.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

I think that sort of behavior is very abnormal for an almost five year old. If you really feel there is no sensory issue or anything else going on, you could just leave him and let him participate wen he feels ready, but if he is that defiant, I wouldn't be surprised if he starts acting out in other ways eventually. What I mean is that if he realizes you will pay him no attention int he spot, he may start to do things to get your attention like pee his pants, throw stuff, gagging himself, ect. Not saying he will, but being defiant enough to avoid meals and fun activities is a little worrisome to me. Personally, if they can't participate in the day, whether from sickness or from just being stubborn, they don't stay at my home. If you want to give him more time to see if he breaks out his rut, then I agree that you should just leave him be int he spot, but I wouldn't have anything in that spot that is fun. He can sit on a blanket and watch what we do, but I refuse to let a kid sit in a corner playing toys all day and not participating in group activities. What about when you go outside? Des he play or just cry? I have never heard of a child that age, without special needs, acting like that, so I apologize if I have come across as harsh, but that behavior would seriously worry me if I was the parent.

[daycare]

I think that sort of behavior is very abnormal for an almost five year old. If you really feel there is no sensory issue or anything else going on, you could just leave him and let him participate wen he feels ready, but if he is that defiant, I wouldn't be surprised if he starts acting out in other ways eventually. What I mean is that if he realizes you will pay him no attention int he spot, he may start to do things to get your attention like pee his pants, throw stuff, gagging himself, ect. Not saying he will, but being defiant enough to avoid meals and fun activities is a little worrisome to me. Personally, if they can't participate in the day, whether from sickness or from just being stubborn, they don't stay at my home. If you want to give him more time to see if he breaks out his rut, then I agree that you should just leave him be int he spot, but I wouldn't have anything in that spot that is fun. He can sit on a blanket and watch what we do, but I refuse to let a kid sit in a corner playing toys all day and not participating in group activities. What about when you go outside? Des he play or just cry? I have never heard of a child that age, without special needs, acting like that, so I apologize if I have come across as harsh, but that behavior would seriously worry me if I was the parent.

I hear you and understand where you are coming from. I really think it is because this kid has been taking care of by grandparents who give in to his every whim. he does not like to be told what to do, when to do it or why. So he fights every inch of the way.

his parents told me that they never put their kids into preschool and the older sister had to repeat kinder for the same reason. the sister is fine now, but the parents admit the kids have been spolied rotten by grandparents and they waited to late to get this dck into a program.

I don't want him to feel punished here, I don't want him to feel unwanted in anyway. I just am not too sure how to respond to the ugly grunting.

He is now sitting out in the classroom. I think just ignoring him is working...not what I would normally do, but he obviously is not responding to what I was doing before.

[Heidi]

I hear you and understand where you are coming from. I really think it is because this kid has been taking care of by grandparents who give in to his every whim. he does not like to be told what to do, when to do it or why. So he fights every inch of the way.

his parents told me that they never put their kids into preschool and the older sister had to repeat kinder for the same reason. the sister is fine now, but the parents admit the kids have been spolied rotten by grandparents and they waited to late to get this dck into a program.

I don't want him to feel punished here, I don't want him to feel unwanted in anyway. I just am not too sure how to respond to the ugly grunting.

He is now sitting out in the classroom. I think just ignoring him is working...not what I would normally do, but he obviously is not responding to what I was doing before.

I'd ignore the grunting completely. No attention for it. If you ask him a question, I'd say "I don't understand you, please use words". If he doesn't, shrug, smile kindly, and walk away.

He may very well be defiant, or, he is just dealing the best way he can. He's been somewhat isolated and coddled, and he's only been alive for FOUR years. His experiences have been limited. I kind of feel sorry for him, and I'm glad he found you!

[daycare]

I'd ignore the grunting completely. No attention for it. If you ask him a question, I'd say "I don't understand you, please use words". If he doesn't, shrug, smile kindly, and walk away.

He may very well be defiant, or, he is just dealing the best way he can. He's been somewhat isolated and coddled, and he's only been alive for FOUR years. His experiences have been limited. I kind of feel sorry for him, and I'm glad he found you!

thanks heidi. You are right. just keep on doing what I normally would be doing with a child of this age group. I was feeling really frustrated and defeated today.

talking to all of you has made me feel so much better...thanks everyone