Dilemma (Sorry, Long)

[Unregistered]

I have been watching my husband's colleague's child(no contract) since he was a little over a month old (he is now 2). I am licenced, but because it was only one child, I did not feel like drawing up a contract or a handbook. My fault, really, but...
This family told me they would be putting him on the CDC (Child Development Center, we are Active Duty Military and the father of the child is a Civilian contractor for the Government) wait list when he turns two. I was okay with that and started looking for another job, and informed them I would be looking for another job. This was back in May. On June 24th, I had an interview for a job and was told I was tentatively hired, provided I was cleared on a background check. I knew I would be cleared, so I let the dcf know immediately. I also let them know that training started on July 13 and lasted 4 weeks, but I was unsure if it was full-day and/or for M-F or just certain days. I told them I would let them know as soon as I did, and I did. It IS M-F and lasts almost all day.
Here is my issue: they pay me between the 3rd and 8th of the month, and because I will not be watching him for the full month of July, they want a partial refund! I have endured watching their child for 2 years, allowed them to bring him even when he was sick, tolerated them dropping him off and picking him up sporadically (between 5:40 AM-8:00AM, often with no calls or texts saying they would be early/late, then picking him up between 4-6PM), tolerated them telling me they were planning to get off early and come get him, only to show up way later than they said. I have had to postpone making dinner for my own kids because of the late
pick ups, missed many opportunities to watch my kids' recitals/games....I have just sacrificed a lot to indulge their needs.
I would gladly refund them, if I still had the $600 they pay me (yes, $600/month for 11-12 hr days, M-F...they say the CDC charges less than they pay me, but a friend checked for me, and Active Duty members pay more than that for an infant/toddler in their tier, so contractors would be paying more). Sadly, they paid me on the 5th, and I immediately used the money to pay for scrubs for my new job, and pay my bills. I did not find out until later that day about my training schedule.
I thought they understood when I told them on June 24 (plenty of notice), that I got the job, and that they were paying me for the full month of July, because, even when a parent gives notice, they are still required to pay the full month, and when I have termed in the past, I still charged for the month, even if the child attended for only a day of that month.
What do I do? Advice?

[Thriftylady]

I am not a lawyer, but I am thinking that without any kind of contract if they take you to small claims you will likely loose. They paid for a service and you haven't finished providing it. I don't want to be harsh, but all the other stuff, the amount of pay, drop offs when sick, etc that you "endured" are things you allowed, so it is really hard to use that to get out of anything now. Like I said not trying to be harsh at all, just honest. If you ever provide care again make sure you have a contract and handbook, it will get you out of the situations you have dealt with.

[JoseyJo]

I don't understand why they wouldn't be expecting a refund, or why you wouldn't expect to give one. You gave them notice, you chose the date, you are not allowing the child to come during the rest of the time they have paid for. Why shouldn't they get a refund? It is not their fault you already spent the money (especially since it was spent on your new job) or that you let them do things you did like all these years. I am a daycare provider and can't see your point if view, I doubt the parents or a judge would.

[Heidi]

I agree, they need to get the money back for those days they didn't use.

Tell them what you told us; that you payed bills with it, not really thinking about needing to give them a refund, but now that you've thought about it, they are entitled to one. I'd break it down by days and pro-rate it for the days they actually got.

Then, see if you can work something out. Maybe they can wait until your first paycheck, or even half on paycheck one and the other half on the following check. After you hash it out, write it down and have both of you sign it.

[e.j.]

I have endured watching their child for 2 years, allowed them to bring him even when he was sick, tolerated them dropping him off and picking him up sporadically (between 5:40 AM-8:00AM, often with no calls or texts saying they would be early/late, then picking him up between 4-6PM), tolerated them telling me they were planning to get off early and come get him, only to show up way later than they said. I have had to postpone making dinner for my own kids because of the late
pick ups, missed many opportunities to watch my kids' recitals/games....I have just sacrificed a lot to indulge their needs.

To be honest, none of the above really matters. It'd be really nice if they remembered how wonderful you've been to them and told you to keep the money as a token of their appreciation but let's face it....that's not gonna happen. Had they truly appreciated all you've done for them, they never would have treated you that way in the first place. Unfortunately, you can't really go back and charge them for it now. It's water under the bridge.

If it were me, I would give them the partial refund they're requesting. If you can't afford to give it in one lump sum, I'd work out an installment plan with them. If the parents were pulling their child immediately, I could see why you'd try to hold them to their agreement to pay for the entire month. (A contract/parent handbook would definitely have come in handy at that point!) Since you're quitting on them because of your new job training schedule, I think it's only fair that you refund for the time you can't provide care. Sorry; I know that's not what you want to hear but that's the way I see it. Maybe someone else will have a different opinion and can help you figure things out. Good luck in your new job, btw.

[Unregistered]

I agree with the PPs. In my parent handbook it states that if I terminate care prior to the end of the month (I get paid monthly) I will refund based on remaining days I will not provide care. If the family terminates care prior to the end of the month, there is no refund because child's last day is the end of the month whether or not the child attends all the days.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

Would it be possible to start your new job later and finish out the month of care with them? If not, then I would try what others suggest and tell them you will refund the prorated amount by XX date. Give yourself enough time to earn a paycheck at the new job and then pay them or possibly pay them half now (if you can) and the rest when you have it. If you want to be done with them, since you are annoyed with them, could a friend or family member loan you the money and then you can pay them back instead? If my math is correct, you owe them about $400, so if you can do a few payments, that may work, but I do think you should pay them back. I am surprised they paid you in the first place if they knew you wouldn't be working the rest of the month, but since they did, it would be best to pay them back and move on to your new job.

[Unregistered]

I told them already that training could not be missed and told them that I used the money already and that I would pay them back ASAP. I just started this thread to see if what they were asking is normal. Apparently it is. I guess it just ticks me off a bit that I gave notice on the 24th of June, and they paid me in full for July, even with my notice. Thought they were following the norm for my area (you pay for the month, even if your child doesn't attend the full month).

[Blackcat31]

I told them already that training could not be missed and told them that I used the money already and that I would pay them back ASAP. I just started this thread to see if what they were asking is normal. Apparently it is. I guess it just ticks me off a bit that I gave notice on the 24th of June, and they paid me in full for July, even with my notice. Thought they were following the norm for my area (you pay for the month, even if your child doesn't attend the full month).

This would be 100% accurate had you BOTH agrred upon this prior.
Preferably in writing so you had proof of the agreement.

So more than likely you are following "norm" for your area, you just dont have anything to proove both parties assume or consider that "practice as normal".

You've been caring for the child from infancy you the family has no other experience to guide them on what's normal annd what's not in regard to provider-client expectations.

[Unregistered]

I am not a lawyer, but I am thinking that without any kind of contract if they take you to small claims you will likely loose. They paid for a service and you haven't finished providing it. I don't want to be harsh, but all the other stuff, the amount of pay, drop offs when sick, etc that you "endured" are things you allowed, so it is really hard to use that to get out of anything now. Like I said not trying to be harsh at all, just honest. If you ever provide care again make sure you have a contract and handbook, it will get you out of the situations you have dealt with.

I endured those things because every time I would bring up those issues, dcm would go on a rant about how she can't miss work and that she paid me, so I should watch him for the days she paid me to. I got tired of hearing it, and got tired of it being implied that she was going to just not pay me if her child was sick and she had to take the day off. They already informed me earlier LAST year that they would be looking for preschool-like care when he turned two (he turned two in April of this year), so I started job hunting because of that.

It is my fault for not providing a contract/handbook. I will accept that. And, I am not trying to get out of anything. This family had my notice on the 24th of June, paid me in full for July, even though I let them know I start training on the 13th, and I thought they were just following the standard for paying for the month. Again, I would not have needed to start job hunting if they had not informed me that they wanted to enroll him in a preschool setting. I did not start job hunting until they told me they were on the wait list for alternate care. Usually that wait list is just a few weeks to a couple of month. I asked them in April if he was on the list. They told me he was not, asked again in June and they said, oh yeah, he has been on it since April...!??I just got a job quicker than they (or I) expected.

[Unregistered]

This would be 100% accurate had you BOTH agrred upon this prior.
Preferably in writing so you had proof of the agreement.

So more than likely you are following "norm" for your area, you just dont have anything to proove both parties assume or consider that "practice as normal".

You've been caring for the child from infancy you the family has no other experience to guide them on what's normal annd what's not in regard to provider-client expectations.

This is inaccurate. They have knowledge of how childcare works here. I had to take two weeks off last August, gave them plenty of notice. They made mention that now they had to pay two providers (me and someone else) for a full month. I told them I would only require half month's pay, as I planned this time off. There were other times they needed to find alt care and they got hourly care through the CDC here, and the CDC is who they are on the wait list for. They made mention that the CDC only does hourly care for 25 hours a week, and after that, it is considered either pt or ft and they would pay accordingly. They aren't blind to this. But I think they were hoping I was.
It just ****s. I would never have needed to start job hunting if they didn't tell me they were putting him on a wait list when he turned two.

[Heidi]

It sounds like this just wasn't a good relationship from the start. Anyone who is in this business (and stays) for a long time learns that you have to set boundaries, you have to set clear expectations, and you have to put things in writing.

Just chalk it up to a lesson learned. Doesn't sound like this was your thing. That's okay!

Best wishes in your new job.

[Blackcat31]

This is inaccurate. They have knowledge of how childcare works here. I had to take two weeks off last August, gave them plenty of notice. They made mention that now they had to pay two providers (me and someone else) for a full month. I told them I would only require half month's pay, as I planned this time off. There were other times they needed to find alt care and they got hourly care through the CDC here, and the CDC is who they are on the wait list for. They made mention that the CDC only does hourly care for 25 hours a week, and after that, it is considered either pt or ft and they would pay accordingly. They aren't blind to this. But I think they were hoping I was.
It just ****s. I would never have needed to start job hunting if they didn't tell me they were putting him on a wait list when he turned two.

Drop in care on an occasional basis is not the same as a long term relationship between a self-employed provider who has pre-determined rules/policies BOTH parties agree to before services are provided.

That is what I meant.

I'm sorry it didn't work out the way you'd hoped.
Hind sight is definitely 20/20.

Good luck in your new job! It sounds like you are really looking forward to the change!

[Unregistered]

It sounds like this just wasn't a good relationship from the start. Anyone who is in this business (and stays) for a long time learns that you have to set boundaries, you have to set clear expectations, and you have to put things in writing.

Just chalk it up to a lesson learned. Doesn't sound like this was your thing. That's okay!

Best wishes in your new job.

I have been in the business for 11 years. Just the past 4 years, I have been in school to get my BSN/RN and up until 2 years ago, I wasn't doing childcare because of clinicals/classes. I should have drawn up contract and pulled out my handbooks, but I figured "one child, right?".
Lesson learned.

[Unregistered]

Drop in care on an occasional basis is not the same as a long term relationship between a self-employed provider who has pre-determined rules/policies BOTH parties agree to before services are provided.

That is what I meant.

I'm sorry it didn't work out the way you'd hoped.
Hind sight is definitely 20/20.

Good luck in your new job! It sounds like you are really looking forward to the change!

You are right, however they do know (and mentioned it several times, along with mentioning how they pay me more than they would the CDC) that services with other centers are paid for in full in the beginning of the month and are due, in full, regardless of attendance.

Unless you are referring to me as the drop-in occasional care provider...which I most certainly was not. I watched him M-F from whatever time they decided to drop him off to whatever time they decided to pick him up.
Regardless, they will get their money back, and I will be sure to never again lax on my contracts/handbooks.