Oppositional Disorder?

[Heidi]

Yes, I do believe it's a legitimate condition. However, unless you have a diagnosis and a treatment/behavioral plan from his psychiatrist I would assume Mom was full of it and do as Blackcat suggested.

He should be in therapy and you should have a number of strategies to deal with his behavior. I've had one boy with ODD and he has spent time as an inpatient in the psych ward of our children's hospital. It was and is a very serious situation and no caregiver should be expected to handle a child with ODD unless they have all the facts and resources available to the parents.

Either it's a medical/phsychological condition that has a diagnosis and a plan, and you need training, or it's mom's excuse, in which case, they both need help. Not your job.

[Unregistered]

I think it's a load of bs!
Make your kid mind or punish him!

[Michelle]

Ok
Thank you so much for all the responses and great advice
you gave me a lot to think about
I am still going to term but a lot sooner than 2 weeks.
I really appreciate all the help

[Michelle]

Oh and yes, the mother says he is diagnosed with ODD and ADHD
He does take medicine but it doesn't help at all
If he doesn't get his way he will try to run out the door or jump out of the car
we are done!

[Bookworm]

I have definiteky hear of this diagnoses before but in my experience it's a lack of boundaries and limits at home that causes it. Not some inherent brain defect. Parents these days just never ever want to hear their kids cry so they are raising agressive out of control kids.

Best of luck in the next two weeks!

[Crystal]

Oh and yes, the mother says he is diagnosed with ODD and ADHD
He does take medicine but it doesn't help at all
If he doesn't get his way he will try to run out the door or jump out of the car
we are done!

Were you aware he was on meds? That would be a BIG no-no in my book and would be grounds for immediate termination.

[Michelle]

Were you aware he was on meds? That would be a BIG no-no in my book and would be grounds for immediate termination.

I take kids on meds it's really no problem for me in most cases
I have taken kids with down syndrome, autism, deaf with other special needs, and adhd but this, I can't take!
I am really old school. My own kids even say to me , "mom that kid just needs a spanking" ::::::

[NoMoreJuice!]

I was diagnosed with ODD at age 13. My parents were very strict disciplinarians, they definitely didn't spare the rod if you know what I mean. I feel that every case is so very different, but in mine I was lashing out against all the restrictions they placed on me. So I hesitate to say that a good old fashioned punishment is all the kid needs. What IS certain is that he doesn't sound like he fits in your program, and that's all that counts in your case. It's your circus, but he's not your monkey, . Good luck, I know terming is hard, but the relief will be worth it!

[daycarediva]

Yes, I do believe it's a legitimate condition. However, unless you have a diagnosis and a treatment/behavioral plan from his psychiatrist I would assume Mom was full of it and do as Blackcat suggested.

He should be in therapy and you should have a number of strategies to deal with his behavior. I've had one boy with ODD and he has spent time as an inpatient in the psych ward of our children's hospital. It was and is a very serious situation and no caregiver should be expected to handle a child with ODD unless they have all the facts and resources available to the parents.

[Solandia]

I agree with the others in that if he doesn't work out in your daycare, then he doesn't work out.

Now, I do have experience with the dx'ing and dealing with ODD, it is just a list of check boxes the therapist goes through to see if the kid meet enough of the checkboxes. Like with all things with kids, there are some that are more severe and some that are barely an issue. I WILL say that my diagnosed ADHD & ODD kid is much easier to "correct" in a power struggle type situation than the neurotypical, "strong-willed" kid that is the same age. It is just that he is'on' all the time, where my typical kid the same age is pretty chill with the stubborn streak that escalates dramatically on occasion.

I have a feeling that my kid with ADHD (with a big H component, and a huge problem with impulsivity), that the impulsivity is what is giving the ODD dx, because generally he has a huge desire to please & easy to "turn around" his behavior when called out on it. Meaning he has an automatic "no!" or negative reaction to most things, but give him 3-5 seconds to think about it, he selects the appropriate reaction.

OTOH... My 13yo dd meets criteria for ODD, but her therapist decided to not add the ODD dx...b/c her defiance, lying, avoidance and manipulation are more learned coping mechanisms for her social anxiety/selective mutism, and not necessarily to be a pain in the ass.

I still have an 8yo school aged dck with a adhd/odd dx...and I have had her since a baby. Her and the 5yo with the same dx can get into a yelling match occasionally, and neither one are violent....just freaking loud and very, very dramatic about it all. I suspect that with the 8yo there are other mental health issues, but those can't be determined until closer to teen years. She is pretty good with me, though. One thing is that a militant stance on the little behaviors make the behaviors 1000x worse. My go-to method is 123 Magic style, consistency, and picking the right battles (super helpful book The Explosive Child: Parenting easily frustrated, chronically inflexible child).

I am just providing this info & resourced for anyone who wants to know, or understand. Not to pressure a provider into thinking they shouldn't term. But a lot of parents read this forum, and there are plenty of providers with their own difficult children(or daycare kids they want to keep), and knowledge is power.

[originalkat]

I have had a child with ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder). She was not diagnosed until after she left my program. She was a VERY difficult child and I should have termed LONG before she left for KG. My days were miserable during those years I had her. And trust me... it does not matter how consistent you are or the consequences you provide or the incentives you give for making good choices. NOTHING works. I had this child from 18 mo-5 years. So she was with me from early on with all the appropriate guidance and direction. There was no progress over these years and every day was a frustration. ODD is real and I do not recommend trying to work through it. Just term.

**I also used 123 Magic with some help from moment to moment, but it did not help change the behaviors for the positive long term.

[NightOwl]

It's a very real thing and I've been unfortunate enough to experience it. It's probably one of the most frustrating disorders out there. And there is no medication for it. The meds he takes are probably for the adhd. The only known treatment for odd is intense therapy. The children i've cared for were very disrespectful, showed no remorse, blatantly refused to follow rules or directions, had a superiority complex, etc. It's extremely hard to deal with. When she says "oh he just has odd" that's her excusing his behavior and that's NOT ok. I'm with the others. Immediate termination is in order.

[Michelle]

I agree with the others in that if he doesn't work out in your daycare, then he doesn't work out.

Now, I do have experience with the dx'ing and dealing with ODD, it is just a list of check boxes the therapist goes through to see if the kid meet enough of the checkboxes. Like with all things with kids, there are some that are more severe and some that are barely an issue. I WILL say that my diagnosed ADHD & ODD kid is much easier to "correct" in a power struggle type situation than the neurotypical, "strong-willed" kid that is the same age. It is just that he is'on' all the time, where my typical kid the same age is pretty chill with the stubborn streak that escalates dramatically on occasion.

I have a feeling that my kid with ADHD (with a big H component, and a huge problem with impulsivity), that the impulsivity is what is giving the ODD dx, because generally he has a huge desire to please & easy to "turn around" his behavior when called out on it. Meaning he has an automatic "no!" or negative reaction to most things, but give him 3-5 seconds to think about it, he selects the appropriate reaction.

OTOH... My 13yo dd meets criteria for ODD, but her therapist decided to not add the ODD dx...b/c her defiance, lying, avoidance and manipulation are more learned coping mechanisms for her social anxiety/selective mutism, and not necessarily to be a pain in the ass.

I still have an 8yo school aged dck with a adhd/odd dx...and I have had her since a baby. Her and the 5yo with the same dx can get into a yelling match occasionally, and neither one are violent....just freaking loud and very, very dramatic about it all. I suspect that with the 8yo there are other mental health issues, but those can't be determined until closer to teen years. She is pretty good with me, though. One thing is that a militant stance on the little behaviors make the behaviors 1000x worse. My go-to method is 123 Magic style, consistency, and picking the right battles (super helpful book The Explosive Child: Parenting easily frustrated, chronically inflexible child).

I am just providing this info & resourced for anyone who wants to know, or understand. Not to pressure a provider into thinking they shouldn't term. But a lot of parents read this forum, and there are plenty of providers with their own difficult children(or daycare kids they want to keep), and knowledge is power.

wow! your life sounds exhausting!
Oh my gosh, thank you so much for the helpful information
when I have tried everything I know how to help him and he just literally spits in my face and I get no support from mom, I don't feel so bad now.
thank you guys so much