Update On Variable Hrs Mom- She Doesn't Get It!

[legomom922]

I don't think Tom knows the whole story.

The old contract may be valid, BUT, if the provider breeched the contract, by changing her closing hours to 2:30 instead of 4:30 without advance notice, making it impossible for the parent to use care because she works until 4:00 on some days, is the contract still valid?

I think you need to clarify this with Tom. I find it hard to believe that you can press the matter when YOU changed the contract, verbally, when you told the parent you would no longer care for her child after 2:30 because you MAY need to make doctor's appointments.

First of all I didn't change my closing hours. She changed her schedule which made it impossible for me to work around weather it was appointments, or other clients. i offered her "specific contracted hrs" of 630am-230pm m-f which fell in between my operating hours, based on her most common needs for care, which for the last semister, pick up was usually anywhere between 1130-2, and drop off was anywhere from 630-9am.

I didn't change the contract. She changed her schedule and when ever she would change her schedule, i would draw up a new contract. This time, I did not agree with her changes, so a new contract was not drawn up. A new contract would have drwn up IF she had accepted my offer letter.

Bottom line is I need a client who has consistent hrs, and is not going to tell me 8 hrs in advance that there times has changed ...again.

[Crystal]

Maybe I am misunderstanding this post:

She thought she could just stay on 3 days when I spoke with her this am, BUT she said her hrs would still be all over the place. I told her the problem is the days and times each week change, and I just cannot schedule anyone else in case she needs it. Then she says "well your policy says you are open 630-430" and I am not familiar with "contracted" hrs, as this is a new concept to me, so I didnt know how to answer it, so I said my rate was based "up to" 8 hrs and clients can choose which hrs they want within that time frame, but it doesnt mean you can come 630-430 for the same rate. Then I said I am now only offering care until 230pm m-f and that any new clients coming in are paying a higher rate too. So then she said well I dont know if I can stay anyway then because I need care until 4 on some days. I told her staying until 4 would have to be approved based on my availability and that is something I cannot guarentee if it is going to vary. Is there any other way of explaining "contracted" hrs? At this point I think I just want her gone

It sounds like she was originally contracted for variable hours, based on her schedule, and some of those days pick up would be as late as 4:30. YOU then told her that YOU were changing those hours to the latest pick up being 2:30 because you have other things to attend to and cannot count on her hours being the same, so you were setting it to where YOU would not be inconvenienced by HER changing schedule, that YOU agree to work with in the first place. So, if that is right, you did change the contract, verbally and breeched the original contract.

If I am misunderstanding, my apologies, but that is what it sounds like to me.

[Daycare_Mama]

I think the 6:30-4:30 hours were her "open" hours, but the family had 8 hours per day contracted, so the baby could only be there til 2:30. She didn't change her hours on the family; this woman kept changing her schedule around on the provider.

But anyways, I get what you meant on pg. 6, but I agree with pp that it sounds like you are giving the option to come and pay full fees OR bring child to back-up caregiver and not have to pay for the fee on that day. So, I would just not worry about charging for that appointment day because of the wording in your contract was a little hard to understand what you meant.

As far as the remaining 2 weeks, I think she does owe you that and it just depends on how much you want to "fight" with this family to get it.

This whole thing has been confusing for both you and the family, so it might just be easier like the other person said to get the $70 and call it a day.

I do agree that you are owed for the 2 weeks, but it may not be worth it to try to get it. If you do want to, just explain to her that she signed a contract and has not signed a new contract that is any different, so she owes (per the contract) for the 2 weeks following Jan. 4th. 2011.

[legomom922]

Maybe I am misunderstanding this post:

She thought she could just stay on 3 days when I spoke with her this am, BUT she said her hrs would still be all over the place. I told her the problem is the days and times each week change, and I just cannot schedule anyone else in case she needs it. Then she says "well your policy says you are open 630-430" and I am not familiar with "contracted" hrs, as this is a new concept to me, so I didnt know how to answer it, so I said my rate was based "up to" 8 hrs and clients can choose which hrs they want within that time frame, but it doesnt mean you can come 630-430 for the same rate. Then I said I am now only offering care until 230pm m-f and that any new clients coming in are paying a higher rate too. So then she said well I dont know if I can stay anyway then because I need care until 4 on some days. I told her staying until 4 would have to be approved based on my availability and that is something I cannot guarentee if it is going to vary. Is there any other way of explaining "contracted" hrs? At this point I think I just want her gone

It sounds like she was originally contracted for variable hours, based on her schedule, and some of those days pick up would be as late as 4:30. YOU then told her that YOU were changing those hours to the latest pick up being 2:30 because you have other things to attend to and cannot count on her hours being the same, so you were setting it to where YOU would not be inconvenienced by HER changing schedule, that YOU agree to work with in the first place. So, if that is right, you did change the contract, verbally and breeched the original contract.

If I am misunderstanding, my apologies, but that is what it sounds like to me.

Crystal, Originally, when she first came, she had contracted for Sept & Oct: Tues & Thurs 630-2, Fri 1130-4 . Then for Nov & Dec, went to Mon 645-3, Thurs 730-3, Fri 11-4. Now on paper this looks ok, and it's doable, however, the scehule NEVER stayed like this. It was all over the place and she would text me alot at night to tell me hrs for the next day. There was not 1 time since Oct 16, that she ever picked up after 2.

I had only agreed to variable schedule as stated above, with set times on set days. I didnt care that the times on Tuesdays were different from Fridays. She would tell me on a Tues that she would be picking up at 1230 on fri, and then thursday night I would get a text at 9pm that would say she is picking up at 2 instead, which then would cause a conflict if I had already scheduled a appt for 130, so then I would have to reschedule my appt to accomodate her change in hrs. I had physical therepy appts scheduled early at 730am on Fridays, and she would text me on Thursdays telling me she is dropping off at 630 instead of 9..It was INSANE. I rescheduled each appt I had to meet her changing hrs at a moments notice.

I wish I could scan this blank calendar she left me, so you could see it yourself, but January her hrs and days changed again, and again for Feb, etc. She didn't even know times, and on alot of days she didnt even know if she needed me or not, and just put like a question mark on that day, and no 2 wks were the same..It was totaly unacceptable to me and would give anyone a headache just looking at it.

I just dont understand where you think I changed the contract on her. I offered a new contract for hrs within my operating hrs on a new set schedule,(which would mean I am now only offering care to her from 630-230 only) AFTER she gave me her new schedule, which would have required a new contract anyway because she switched her days also. So can you be more specific by what you mean? I really want to understand.

I could see your point if I decided to change her hrs while we still working with her old schedule from Nov & Dec, but that schedule no longer existed anyway.

[JenNJ]

Honestly, I think you are out of line here. You allowed this to go on for months, were annoyed at this clients for that time, and never COMMUNICATED to the client that this was a problem. With her new schedule change, you are more annoyed than ever over something she has NO IDEA about and are going from one day "working it out" to handing her notice the next.

If I were her, I would likely pull my kid and never look back. I would welcome the opportunity to take me to small claims bc your contract is no longer valid and you have been unreliable in providing care. If I were you, I wouldn't expect 2 weeks pay, bc your contract is worded poorly and doesn't cover your current situation.

I think that you need to work on your communication skills. Not everything can be done via text/email/letters. Sometimes things need to be spoken about, face to face. I bet if that is how this was handled, she would have understood, made alternate arrangements for the days you were not available, and continued her son in your care. Her email sounds courteous and reasonable.

Also, she is a coach and works in retail - those schedules are NOT predictable! Its up to you to interview properly and find a good fit. I am failing to see how any of this is her fault. Its not like she is some absent mother who is shopping during these crazy hours, she is working to provide for her family.

[Daycare_Mama]

I disagree. The parent had a contract with set days/hours and she, time and time again, changed them at the last minute. Whether or not legomom expressed her annoyance the first few months doesn't matter. When this 3rd, even more random, schedule was presented to her by the parent, she had had enough. She DID offer her a plan to work things out in a schedule that she could work with, but the parent didn't accept it or acknowledge the new proposed plan whatsoever. So then, legomom, decides she's had enough and terminates. I don't think there's anything wrong or out of line about this at all. And I think she does owe for 2 weeks because she never signed a new contract saying she didn't owe upon termination, which means she was operating under the old contract. The only thing I think should be dismissed is the dentist appointment day, which was unclear in your contract if she should pay or not.

[Daycare_Mama]

Agree that retail and coaching hours are not predictable and it seemed like, at first, legomom was fine with the variable schedule. But this parent's schedule has gotten so crazy that she is handing her a calendar with days marked by a question mark. No way would I put up with that either.

Yes, the parent is working and providing for her family, but the provider is trying to do the same thing. If she doesn't want to put up with the crazy schedule anymore, that's her prerogative. The parent didn't do anything wrong, but that doesn't mean the provider has to have a crazy schedule just because the parent does.

I don't think anyone did anything wrong, it just wasn't working out anymore.

[legomom922]

You allowed this to go on for months, were annoyed at this clients for that time, and never COMMUNICATED to the client that this was a problem.

I would welcome the opportunity to take me to small claims bc your contract is no longer valid and you have been unreliable in providing care.

Also, she is a coach and works in retail - those schedules are NOT predictable! Its up to you to interview properly and find a good fit. I am failing to see how any of this is her fault.

Daycare Mama totaly understands!

Maybe you failed to read this:

Originally, when she first came, she had contracted for Sept & Oct: Tues & Thurs 630-2, Fri 1130-4 . Then for Nov & Dec, went to Mon 645-3, Thurs 730-3, Fri 11-4. Now on paper this looks ok, and it's doable, however, the schedule NEVER stayed like this. It was all over the place and she would text me alot at night to tell me hrs for the next day. There was not 1 time since Oct 16, that she ever picked up after 2.

I had only agreed to variable schedule as stated above, with set times on set days. I didnt care that the times on Tuesdays were different from Fridays.

I should also add for the first 2 months, Sept & Oct, the schedule pretty much stayed as contracted, and I'm sorry that I failed to communicate that. The problem really started to emerge in Nov, when her days changed. She never had communicated to me at the interview, exactly how CRAZY her schedule gets, of course she probably didn't want to scare me off either. Considering the fact that I go to physical therepy 2x a week, have 2 sons who have to go to the orthodontist 1x month, have numerous problems with my teeth, etc, I never ever would have agreed to such a wacky schedule if she had been UPFRONT and HONEST with me in the beginning.

I also want to comment, that she was aware of the fact that I went to physical therepy 2x/wk, and that I needed a schedule to go by so I could make my appointments. But it never sank in her head how many times I told her that. I also told her in the beginning when she had wanted to switch a day for 1 wk, (like she wanted to switch her tues for a wed because of a appt she had) that I did not provide care on Wednesdays because i try to make most of my appointments on that day. So why would she provide me with a schedule that now included Wednesdays without even asking me??

I dont know how you think that I have been unreliable in providing care..it has been the total opposite! I have bent over backwards and rearranged my schedules & appointments for her!

And according to Tom, my contract is valid because it is the last signed document.

[Preschool/daycare teacher]

Honestly, I think you are out of line here. You allowed this to go on for months, were annoyed at this clients for that time, and never COMMUNICATED to the client that this was a problem. With her new schedule change, you are more annoyed than ever over something she has NO IDEA about and are going from one day "working it out" to handing her notice the next.

If I were her, I would likely pull my kid and never look back. I would welcome the opportunity to take me to small claims bc your contract is no longer valid and you have been unreliable in providing care. If I were you, I wouldn't expect 2 weeks pay, bc your contract is worded poorly and doesn't cover your current situation.

I think that you need to work on your communication skills. Not everything can be done via text/email/letters. Sometimes things need to be spoken about, face to face. I bet if that is how this was handled, she would have understood, made alternate arrangements for the days you were not available, and continued her son in your care. Her email sounds courteous and reasonable.

Also, she is a coach and works in retail - those schedules are NOT predictable! Its up to you to interview properly and find a good fit. I am failing to see how any of this is her fault. Its not like she is some absent mother who is shopping during these crazy hours, she is working to provide for her family.

If I am understanding this correctly, the lady kept changing her hours even after she scheduled them. So she was being unreliable to the provider. She was supposed to give provider a schedule each month. Provider would take that schedule, work her appointments around it, and then the lady would end up changing her hours on the provider, making the provider change HER appointments to accomodate the lady's "new last minute" schedule, and then the lady would change her schedule on the provider another time, conflicting with the post poned appointment. So provider sent out a letter clearly outlined to say you're options are (a) bring your child 3 days week, with set days that cannot change, OR (b) switch to the full time rate and you can come and go as you please during the 8 contracted hours of 6:30-2:30.
After all, the lady hadn't picked her child up after 2:30 pm in over 2 months (right lego mom?). So she's given 8 contracted hours a day, any day and any hours between 6:30-2:30, for the full time price.
Lady told provider that wouldn't work in any way shape or form. Provider had said in her letter that if those options would not work then they would terminate care (right, lego mom?). So when lady said those options wouldn't work, provider had no other choice but to terminate.
So if I did understand all this right, it sounds like to me that provider did the best thing she could do, considering how unreliable the lady was even after giving her a wacky schedule already, and not communicating to her at the time of enrollment exactly HOW crazy her schedule would be. She was basically expecting the provider to allow her to wait until late the night before to tell her, "by the way, my hours changed and you have to cacel your appointment and watch my child tomorrow at these hours, instead if these hours that I told you before". Who can have a daycare with parents who bring their children just whenever and changing their schedule all the time? I understand it's not the lady's fault her hours changed, but that's a LOT to expect a daycare provider to do, when that provider can only take two children at a time anyway. In a center it may have been different, and more realistic for them to accomodate. Also, if I understand right, the provider is owed the amount she asked for, since she had it listed in the contract that parent would owe.

[legomom922]

If I am understanding this correctly, the lady kept changing her hours even after she scheduled them. So she was being unreliable to the provider. She was supposed to give provider a schedule each month. Provider would take that schedule, work her appointments around it, and then the lady would end up changing her hours on the provider, making the provider change HER appointments to accomodate the lady's "new last minute" schedule, and then the lady would change her schedule on the provider another time, conflicting with the post poned appointment. So provider sent out a letter clearly outlined to say you're options are (a) bring your child 3 days week, with set days that cannot change, OR (b) switch to the full time rate and you can come and go as you please during the 8 contracted hours of 6:30-2:30.
After all, the lady hadn't picked her child up after 2:30 pm in over 2 months (right lego mom?). So she's given 8 contracted hours a day, any day and any hours between 6:30-2:30, for the full time price.
Lady told provider that wouldn't work in any way shape or form. Provider had said in her letter that if those options would not work then they would terminate care (right, lego mom?). So when lady said those options wouldn't work, provider had no other choice but to terminate.
So if I did understand all this right, it sounds like to me that provider did the best thing she could do, considering how unreliable the lady was even after giving her a wacky schedule already, and not communicating to her at the time of enrollment exactly HOW crazy her schedule would be. She was basically expecting the provider to allow her to wait until late the night before to tell her, "by the way, my hours changed and you have to cacel your appointment and watch my child tomorrow at these hours, instead if these hours that I told you before". Who can have a daycare with parents who bring their children just whenever and changing their schedule all the time? I understand it's not the lady's fault her hours changed, but that's a LOT to expect a daycare provider to do, when that provider can only take two children at a time anyway. In a center it may have been different, and more realistic for them to accomodate. Also, if I understand right, the provider is owed the amount she asked for, since she had it listed in the contract that parent would owe.

You have everything correct except I didnt give her the option of 3 days. It was 5 or nothing.

You had the nerve to tell me that I never told her I cancelled my appt 3 wks ago and had to resch it. She said I never "communicated" that to her. Hmmm...I didn't know I was suppose to let her know of all of my appt's that I have sch on my off hrs? So I basically told her that I have no obligation to tell her of personnal things I have planned and its none of her business, and that the only time I need to inform any of clients that I have a appt, is when it does conflict with the time they are scheduled for care.

She also said that she thought she was doing me a favor by dropping off later and picking up earlier. So I said "if I have a 830 appt because you are sch to drop off at 11, and you text me the night before to tell me (not ask me) now you are dropping off at 9 instead, how are you do me a favor? You have now put me in a position where I have to resch my appt to accomodate your sch change at the last minute. That is NOT doing me a favor!

I also told her that she is not my only client, and she does not have exculsive use of me and that she may be better off finding a babysitter who can be more flexable who doesnt have to worry about counts, or juggling other clients around and who is not relying on pay for their income.

I made her a deal. I settled, even though I probably shouldnt have, but I just wanted to be done with the matter, I told her yesterday that if she pays me the 140, I will cancel out the remaining bal, as long as I have a ck by Fri. She agreed.

Thanks again for all of your help during this time. I was so stressed! I'm going to enjoy my peace today.

[momofsix]

Thanks again for all of your help during this time. I was so stressed! I'm going to enjoy my peace today.

Yes, now you can enjoy your peace. What will you do without the stress:: It will be so good for you to have this over now.