Daycare Operator Sued For Reporting Suspected Abuse

[Sugar Magnolia]

So....just to express a random thought here....There should be STIFF penalties for making unfounded or retaliatory abuse reports. Mad at your daycare provider? Find a new provider. Don't make a falae report! Got stiffed by a parent? File a claim. Don't make a false report!

As far aa the "in an ideal world" and "CYA to survive" arguement, I hope this is a minority view. We are mandated reporters, and these are human beings we're talking about.

[AmyLeigh]

Okay. I agree that the provider didn't need to report this child. Obviously, there was some other motivation going on there.
But what I don't get is the award to the parents. They got a voice mail and one visit by CAS and a nurse. The child wasn't removed from their care. CAS noted the allegation as unsubstantiated and closed the case. Why does this warrant a $10,000 award to the parents for the 'suffering'?

[Leigh]

OK-I am understanding that the provider reported on 7/11 and the family pulled the child from care on 7/16 in RESPONSE to the report. Is this correct? That would show concern before termination.

[Blackcat31]

I think the letters were her way of trying to rationalize to the parents her reasoning for calling CAS after they left care. Just because the baby lost a percentile doesn't mean he started at a healthy weight. Maybe he was already in the 20th and dropped to the 19th? Who knows? That attorney really skewed things in the parents' favor.

I think we can all agree that we'll never have the whole story, or all the facts. I just strongly hope that none of us has to face what this provider is facing.

The letters were her way of covering her own butt.

If he was at a low weight or in poor health prior to any of this, why wouldn't his Dr have reported that? The family's Dr submitted evidence that the child was in good health and had been seen regularly. Drs in Canada are also mandated reporters. If there was concern, why wouldn't he/she have reported?

The CAS worker who investigated the family said the child was in good health and actually used the word "chubby" to describe him.

I don't think the lawyer skewed things in the parent favor so much as I think the provider was her won worst enemy. From my interpretation of the transcripts, she did herself in.

[Blackcat31]

OK-I am understanding that the provider reported on 7/11 and the family pulled the child from care on 7/16 in RESPONSE to the report. Is this correct? That would show concern before termination.

I think that after a ton of back and forth (via texting etc) about things they (provider and family) had been discussing (mainly diet) and not seeing eye to eye on, that the provider made a final "hail Mary" type report/call.

I have been in her shoes and had to report a family. More than once actually and the ONE thing that saved my butt was documentation on my part. I had dated documentation from day one that clearly outlined my concerns and actions.

I also think the family pulled the child as soon as they found out it was her that called CAS...which is usually the case.

Okay. I agree that the provider didn't need to report this child. Obviously, there was some other motivation going on there.
But what I don't get is the award to the parents. They got a voice mail and one visit by CAS and a nurse. The child wasn't removed from their care. CAS noted the allegation as unsubstantiated and closed the case. Why does this warrant a $10,000 award to the parents for the 'suffering'?

The bottom of the transcripts "explain" why the ruling for monetary damages was given.

[AmyLeigh]

The bottom of the transcripts "explain" why the ruling for monetary damages was given.

I saw that. Dad cried, mom went back on Zoloft and felt like a bad mother. Sorry. I don't buy that it's worth 10K.
A great majority of reports are unsubstantiated. It happens. All. The. Time. I would be more concerned about the mental stability of the parents if one call and one interview sent them over the edge.

[Thriftylady]

I saw that. Dad cried, mom went back on Zoloft and felt like a bad mother. Sorry. I don't buy that it's worth 10K.
A great majority of reports are unsubstantiated. It happens. All. The. Time. I would be more concerned about the mental stability of the parents if one call and one interview sent them over the edge.

I kind of agree. I don't see how a report that was unsubstantiated is a big deal. If someone really thinks my child is somehow in danger, I say call. When I was in my abusive marriage and someone had called (because I see now in hindsight my kids were being mistreated by being in the situation), I wish someone had called. I am sure I would have been out much sooner. Possibly I wouldn't have been there long enough to have my daughter (and that would ****!!!), but I needed set straight at that point in my life.

[Blackcat31]

I saw that. Dad cried, mom went back on Zoloft and felt like a bad mother. Sorry. I don't buy that it's worth 10K.
A great majority of reports are unsubstantiated. It happens. All. The. Time. I would be more concerned about the mental stability of the parents if one call and one interview sent them over the edge.

I can't disagree there...

Ive never understood monetary awards for emotional distress.

Unless the money goes directly towards a psychiatrists or counseling invoice.

[Thriftylady]

I can't disagree there...

Ive never understood monetary awards for emotional distress.

Unless the money goes directly towards a psychiatrists or counseling invoice.

I agree it wouldn't take long to spend 10K there, but I bet you money not a dime of it will go there.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

The only part I have issue with is the monetary damages awarded to the parents. The provider did not do herself any favors by not documenting and having an attorney present, but the parents were complacent with her care and stopped payment on a check. Only after reporting, did they remove their child, as most parents would, but I do not see 10k in emotional damages. My sister had an experience here int he states with CPS. My nephew (3 at the time) hit his head on a tractor loader and it was a deep cut, so they took him to the ER and he didn't end up needing stitches, but he got a tetanus shot I think, because of the rust ont he tractor. Three weeks later, he feel off a chair and cut his leg open on the calf and they took him back, this time getting 10 stitches. A week later, my sister gets a call from cps saying she is being investigated and it turned out that the ER doc saw two recent visits and reported her. They came and visited and found everything to be just fine, but my sister was pissed and emotionally hurt from this. If the ER doc had done his research, he would have conferred with my nephews pedi and recognized that with the exception of these to visits, he was seen regularly by his pedi and has had no issues or any reason to suspect abuse. Being a mandated reporter means you can sometimes over think things and (to save your own hide) report things that are not worthy of being reported. However, it is the job of CPS to investigate, so there has to be protections in place for providers. If not, then it is sort of damned if you do and damned if you don't. Makes it very scary to watch other people's children.

[DBug]

Yeah, this case worries me a great deal for that reason -- mandated reporters are screwed. Whether Tammy Larabie should have claimed her two week's pay (which was in her contract) is beside the point. Whether or not she sent letters or texts to the parents is also beside the point.

What it all comes down to is the precedent of someone being penalized for making a report to the CAS. I really think the judge should have just called it even on both sides - no money to Larabie (since they figured she voided her own contract with the whole smoking thing), and no money to the parents.

It doesn't bode well for future cases, that's for sure!

[Blackcat31]

Yeah, this case worries me a great deal for that reason -- mandated reporters are screwed. Whether Tammy Larabie should have claimed her two week's pay (which was in her contract) is beside the point. Whether or not she sent letters or texts to the parents is also beside the point.

What it all comes down to is the precedent of someone being penalized for making a report to the CAS. I really think the judge should have just called it even on both sides - no money to Larabie (since they figured she voided her own contract with the whole smoking thing), and no money to the parents.

It doesn't bode well for future cases, that's for sure!

I belong to several other child care forums (2 of them predominantly Canadian) and have learned a lot about the differences between CAS in Canada and CPS in the US but I also learned that a majority of providers in not only her area but all over Canada do not support her and feel her actions are a terrible injustice to LEGALLY unlicensed child cares.

I disagree that she was penalized for reporting.

I believe she was penalized for how she handled the entire situation beforehand.

I believe that she did not see eye to eye with the parents and may have been "worried" about the child but not to the point that she should have called CAS.
I do NOT think her concern was that dire or genuine.

I think that the provider and the family were not a good fit and the provider and parents had issue with each others behavior(s).

I think the provider called CAS to protect herself not because she was truly concerned about the child.

I believe that is why she lost and why the family was awarded monetary damages.

Had she called because she was truly and genuinely concerned about the child, I do not believe she would have lost.

Whether or not she sent letters or texts to the parents is also beside the point.

I think that was the catalyst in the decision making process.

The letters she sent AFTER the parents withdrew from care are her ONLY proof that she was concerned about the child.

The text messages between the mother and the provider told the story. How many times have you been concerned about a kid, and continually pushed the parent to do something about it or you mentioned it every single time you talked to the parent?

Why would ALL the text messages between them be void of ANY concern?
Don't you find that odd?
If the provider was TRULY concerned or concerned enough to call CAS, why isn't there a single mention of any concern in the day to day back and forth texting?
No e-mails presented, no memos? letters? daily behavior sheets? WHERE was the providers concern?

I find that disturbing.
I've called CPS on a couple families before. Some of them turned out good and some not so good but every.single. one of the families I called about had files with TONS of notes, memos, little post-its and pictures of all the reasons I called.
There was SO much documentation before I called that I find it impossible to believe this provider didn't have a single piece of proof that she was concerned. (hence the letters)



FWIW~ I'm not trying to argue with you or anyone else about this, I just feel passionately about being a mandated reporter and what that means.

and....I love these kinds of debates...law was my first love.
Before I found myself submerged in curriculums, handbooks, schedules and oh yeah, and all the kids. ::

[DBug]

I think you have some good points, BlackCat, and I don't totally disagree with you (btw, I LOVE debating stuff like this too ).

I think my main concern lies in the public perception of the whole case -- how it's boiled down in the media. My experiences with child protection over the past year (which I can't detail, although I wish I could!), have really brought this whole issue home.

I'm convinced that the outcome of this whole thing will be less reporting for fear of fines, and therefore, more families will go without the intervention they need .

[Ariana]

Wow this is pretty crazy! Thanks for posting this! I took her on her word about what happened and fully sided with her. I don't hold any ill will towards her but she acted very unprofessionaly. Some of her concerns wouldn't have been concerned had she been educated. Agree with BlackCat here. I think mandated reporters should be educated in what that means. As an ECE in a centre we had our annual training on abuse etc.

Things in Canada are much different than the US. We are allowed to run unlicensed with zero education. It is changing though but homecare providers are all up in arms about that too. As an ECE I am flabbergasted at the state of childcare in Canada. It is 100% why I stayed home with my kids. I mean you need training and education to be a mechanic...is a car more important?

I agree DBug the media attention has been pretty one sided but I think SHE is the one putting it out there with crowd funding and such. Most people I talk to have never heard this story before unless they are involved in childcare.

[NoMoreJuice!]

I'm convinced that the outcome of this whole thing will be less reporting for fear of fines, and therefore, more families will go without the intervention they need.

Precisely.