Would You Have Said The Same Thing?

[Unregistered]

I've been watching a little girl and her brother for a little over a year. I've had dcb since he was born. When he turned 1, he entered the "terrible twos" very early. On a daily basis, he throws tantrums, screams, hits with toys, kicks me when he doesn't want me to change his diaper and today, he decided to spit on me.

Yesterday, the little girl (will be 4 next month) hit my son with a toy and threw a screaming fit when she was put in time out. Today, she kicked him in the face because she wanted him to move and then she grabbed her brother by the neck trying to drag him to the floor.

When their mom came to pick them up, I let her know what happened and I told her if we have these things happen on Friday, I will have to send them home. The look on her face was not happy. I told her I can't have the aggressive behavior here.

After she got home she texted me that she or her husband want to talk to me, because I caught her off guard about my comment about sending the kids home if their behavior continues.

I give them a report every day of things that happen and I just had a conversation with the dcd last week that the behavior was getting worse. It actually states in the contract that this behavior could lead to termination.

Should I have said something different?

[Shell]

The only thing different I would have said is, "here is your termination letter". These kids are far too aggressive, and need to go. Kicked in the face?! No way- bye, bye!

[Crazy8]

Rather than just tell them that their child would be sent home if we have this behavior on Friday (assume you don't watch them until then?) I would have just flat out told them that their behavior is unacceptable and if continues you will need to terminate care.

[Unregistered]

Rather than just tell them that their child would be sent home if we have this behavior on Friday (assume you don't watch them until then?) I would have just flat out told them that their behavior is unacceptable and if continues you will need to terminate care.

This is what I did when I faced this same situation regarding consistent aggressive behavior towards the other children. You have already spoken to the parents about their children's aggressive behavior and nothing changed, so terming is your best course of action. It does not seem like they think it is a big deal and are unwilling to work with you to stop the behavior. If they are upset, too bad, they should have nipped it in the bud when you first brought up the issue with them.

[Leigh]

This is what I did when I faced this same situation regarding consistent aggressive behavior towards the other children. You have already spoken to the parents about their children's aggressive behavior and nothing changed, so terming is your best course of action. It does not seem like they think it is a big deal and are unwilling to work with you to stop the behavior. If they are upset, too bad, they should have nipped it in the bud when you first brought up the issue with them.

An aggressive 1 or 2 year old, I can see working with. They have a hard time expressing themselves and are learning about appropriate behavior. I'd give them a chance. An aggressive 4 year old? That's a problem. That's NOT OK. A 4 year old would not have much of a chance to turn around. OP, what are you doing to prevent this behavior from the older child? How are you dealing with it when it happens?

[Play Care]

I would have said "BUH-BYE!" Spitting on me? Kicking other kids in the face?That would be a child's last day.
I firmly believe there is something inherently wrong with children who do those things to their adult caregiver (flame away, I said it and I stand behind it). IME, this is not "normal" behavior.
And the parents reactions tell me that they think they are your boss and are going to tell you what you can and can't do (ie: they expect you to put up with the behavior and they will not pick them up if you call) Be prepared to let them go, because it won't get any better.

[daycarediva]

I would have termed. They are a threat to your home/business and livelihood. Those behaviors from a 1 year old? challenging and fixable. Outright defiance from a 4 year old? I would not tolerate.

If they want to talk, I absolutely would. They wouldn't like it much. "Not age appropriate.. extremely violent...lack of empathy...defiant....out of control..."

[midaycare]

I termed a SA 6 yo this summer for similar behaviors. Lost one of my best friends because of it. I had two talks with her, and the third time I termed. If she wasn't a friend I would have termed sooner. Dcb lasted 3 weeks here.

[Blackcat31]

I am curious as to what was going on when this behavior happened?

Were you in the middle of a transition from one activity to another?
Were the kids having free play?
How old is your son?
Are there other kids in the house besides the girl, her brother and your son?

What is the consequence for aggressive behavior in your program? What are your expectations? Are these things you have witnessed before with these kids? Has this been an on-going issue you have brought up with mom/dad before?

I am just wondering if mom/dad was FULLY aware of this behavior before or if this has been on-going... and if so, was being sent home as a consequence something both parties have agreed upon or something new (which lends to mom's reaction about you saying that)

I know you said you give a daily behavior report but I am interested in what they say and what the follow up (if any) from you and/or the parents is....

Sorry for the questions but there just seems to be a lot of info missing here.....

I agree with Playcare about children who behave in certain ways but I don't view a 1 yr old spitting at you as equally as I would view a 4 yr old spitting at you...kwim?

[Leigh]

I would have said "BUH-BYE!" Spitting on me? Kicking other kids in the face?That would be a child's last day.
I firmly believe there is something inherently wrong with children who do those things to their adult caregiver (flame away, I said it and I stand behind it). IME, this is not "normal" behavior.
And the parents reactions tell me that they think they are your boss and are going to tell you what you can and can't do (ie: they expect you to put up with the behavior and they will not pick them up if you call) Be prepared to let them go, because it won't get any better.

You're right. I, too, think that there is something wrong with it. The only kids I have seen act like this at that age have had diagnosed psychological problems. I might expect a little slapping or shoving among peers at that age, but the aggression OP described is NOT normal at all to me, either.

[Unregistered]

You're right. I, too, think that there is something wrong with it. The only kids I have seen act like this at that age have had diagnosed psychological problems. I might expect a little slapping or shoving among peers at that age, but the aggression OP described is NOT normal at all to me, either.

I worked in a center for many years. When I first started I worked with the 18 months-2year olds. Every so many years I would get a 2yr. old that had very aggressive behavior issues (spitting/biting/scratching other children and me/assistant) at different times of the day with no apparent provacation. I could already tell after a few situations this was not normal behavior for a child. Would address with parents, develop a behavior plan since the child was still in the early years to give child a chance to correct behavior. Behaviors would continue until parents agreed to have child tested. Every single time these children would test in need of early intervention services.

[Wednesday!]

I would have said "BUH-BYE!" Spitting on me? Kicking other kids in the face?That would be a child's last day.
I firmly believe there is something inherently wrong with children who do those things to their adult caregiver (flame away, I said it and I stand behind it). IME, this is not "normal" behavior.
And the parents reactions tell me that they think they are your boss and are going to tell you what you can and can't do (ie: they expect you to put up with the behavior and they will not pick them up if you call) Be prepared to let them go, because it won't get any better.

No flaming here. I totally agree. Children with that much disrespect at such an early age will likely continue and get worse. If it was only the one year old, I'd consider working with him with a very strict time limit for improvement. But the 4 year old? That's a preview of what the one year old is gonna be like at that age.

[daycare]

I have read a bit of what the others are saying.

My thought is that if you are giving them a weekly report on their children, then the parents are already aware of the behavior.

I would not allow for them to have any more chances and I would term them on friday. If the parents were going to help you fix anything with these kids, they would have already done so, but they haven't.

Dear DCP,

due to unresolved behavior, it is in everyone's best interest that we part ways. This notice is to serve as immediate termination of services. All of your children's personal belongings have been packed for your retrieval . (include a list you make them sign of all of the items you are returning)
Your DCP


You have much more patience than I do. I guess I am just a no non-sense kind of person.

[Unregistered]

I am curious as to what was going on when this behavior happened?

Were you in the middle of a transition from one activity to another?
Were the kids having free play?
How old is your son?
Are there other kids in the house besides the girl, her brother and your son?

What is the consequence for aggressive behavior in your program? What are your expectations? Are these things you have witnessed before with these kids? Has this been an on-going issue you have brought up with mom/dad before?

I am just wondering if mom/dad was FULLY aware of this behavior before or if this has been on-going... and if so, was being sent home as a consequence something both parties have agreed upon or something new (which lends to mom's reaction about you saying that)

I know you said you give a daily behavior report but I am interested in what they say and what the follow up (if any) from you and/or the parents is....

Sorry for the questions but there just seems to be a lot of info missing here.....

I agree with Playcare about children who behave in certain ways but I don't view a 1 yr old spitting at you as equally as I would view a 4 yr old spitting at you...kwim?

My son is three and I also have a 1 1/2 year old dcb that is part time. The kids were having free play at the time and my son was laying on the floor and dcg wanted him to move. He was wasn't that close to her, but when he didn't move, she kicked him. I gave her a time out and then had a talk with her and when I asked her why she kicked him, she said, "Because I didn't get enough sleep."

The day before she had taken a toy and hit my son with it. When I asked her about that, she said, "Because I don't know any better."

Not getting enough sleep has been the excuse for a year from the parents why these kids misbehave. When I talk to the parents (every.single.day.) about what has happened that day, I hear, "Well, they didn't get enough sleep," or "Well, no ice cream tonight." Every single morning dcd drops off and says, "They both slept well, so they should be good." I had a lengthy conversation with dcd last week about the behavior of both children getting worse and he said he was shocked because they don't have these problems at all at home and we just need to find something at my house they value and take it away.

I've tried different things with these kids as far as consequences. They laugh at me when I put them in time out, I've tried rewards, I've tried taking privileges away and NOTHING works.

In my contract it states that this kind of behavior can lead to termination. I haven't wanted to get to that point, so that's why I said I would send them home if this behavior continues.

My expectations, which I have expressed to the parents and is also in my contract (which they didn't read) are that the kids follow the rules I have at my house and I even outlined in the contract what the rules are. And I expect the parents to work with me on correcting behavior.

I understand at 1 1/2, kids do a lot of testing, but I can't have kids hitting other kids on the head with toys. I also don't think I need to spend my day being kicked and hit and spit on when I'm changing a diaper or putting them in time out, or spending the majority of my day dealing with tantrums and screaming. I could work with it if it was every now and then the kids are having a bad day, because we all do, but it's every single day I have them. It's caused a lot of stress in my house and honestly, it's really difficult to do much with the kids because I seriously spend all my time dealing with these issues.

I really dread pick up time when I have to tell the parents every day, what kind of issues we've had. I know they don't like to hear it and I don't like to give bad news, but at this point, I need to do what is best for my family.

[deliberateliterate]

My son is three and I also have a 1 1/2 year old dcb that is part time. The kids were having free play at the time and my son was laying on the floor and dcg wanted him to move. He was wasn't that close to her, but when he didn't move, she kicked him. I gave her a time out and then had a talk with her and when I asked her why she kicked him, she said, "Because I didn't get enough sleep."

The day before she had taken a toy and hit my son with it. When I asked her about that, she said, "Because I don't know any better."

Not getting enough sleep has been the excuse for a year from the parents why these kids misbehave. When I talk to the parents (every.single.day.) about what has happened that day, I hear, "Well, they didn't get enough sleep," or "Well, no ice cream tonight." Every single morning dcd drops off and says, "They both slept well, so they should be good." I had a lengthy conversation with dcd last week about the behavior of both children getting worse and he said he was shocked because they don't have these problems at all at home and we just need to find something at my house they value and take it away.

I've tried different things with these kids as far as consequences. They laugh at me when I put them in time out, I've tried rewards, I've tried taking privileges away and NOTHING works.

In my contract it states that this kind of behavior can lead to termination. I haven't wanted to get to that point, so that's why I said I would send them home if this behavior continues.

My expectations, which I have expressed to the parents and is also in my contract (which they didn't read) are that the kids follow the rules I have at my house and I even outlined in the contract what the rules are. And I expect the parents to work with me on correcting behavior.

I understand at 1 1/2, kids do a lot of testing, but I can't have kids hitting other kids on the head with toys. I also don't think I need to spend my day being kicked and hit and spit on when I'm changing a diaper or putting them in time out, or spending the majority of my day dealing with tantrums and screaming. I could work with it if it was every now and then the kids are having a bad day, because we all do, but it's every single day I have them. It's caused a lot of stress in my house and honestly, it's really difficult to do much with the kids because I seriously spend all my time dealing with these issues.

I really dread pick up time when I have to tell the parents every day, what kind of issues we've had. I know they don't like to hear it and I don't like to give bad news, but at this point, I need to do what is best for my family.

Good for you. I've never termed before, but I think I'd have to make an exception for this behaviour. Her parents need a wake up call, and hopefully this will be it for them. Good luck!