Furious - Dose and Drop. Help!

[midaycare]

Today was so eye opening. I'm really glad to have this group because often things come up in this business and I just don't know what to do. I had to get over the shock that a dcm would be so disrespectful to do this. Now that I know they will, my eyes are wide open.

[CraftyMom]

Today was so eye opening. I'm really glad to have this group because often things come up in this business and I just don't know what to do. I had to get over the shock that a dcm would be so disrespectful to do this. Now that I know they will, my eyes are wide open.

Was this an immediate term? How did you word it to her? Just wondering so I can make a mental note for the future

[midaycare]

Was this an immediate term? How did you word it to her? Just wondering so I can make a mental note for the future

It was an immediate term. That is how it is worded in my contract. It says if you drug your child to mask an illness and don't tell me, it is grounds for immediate termination.

I handed her a copy of her signature on that policy (I have a scanner, so I made a quick scan/copy), I told her that while I am quite flexible with things like drop off and pick up times (it's one of my selling points around here), I can not bend this policy, no matter how much I like dcm and dcg. I told her my trust as a dcp was gone and it would be impossible to care for dcg, always wondering if I was getting the truth. I handed her the term notice, listened to her excuses for a few minutes, and told her firmly that I would not accept dcg back.

I can see what happened. Dcg was out sick all last week. Dcm didn't want to miss more work, especially with her new promotion. I might have had more sympathy, but dcm and dcd have extensive family roots here and can find people to watch dcg if they really need to.

[Josiegirl]

Part of the reason for terming today was her dumping dcg with me yesterday and as walking out the door she says, "Dcg vomited last night, but it was from constipation. Bye!" I didn't even get a chance to respond. And today, now this. So I felt like it was 2 days of really disregarding my policies. I let yesterday slip by.

I am very relaxed with dcf's, and I let a lot of things slide. I have good dcf's. 5 minutes late, 10 minutes early, eh, I really don't care in the scheme of things. But this I do care about. There is so much responsibility on my hands if dcg were to have a reaction from the meds.

I was ready to side with the one reply of not terming, until I read this part too. Two days in a row of dropping off a sick kid.........ugh. I hope it doesn't now pass through the whole group. Just in time for the holidays.

[Parent]

Why not? It's YOUR child and YOUR responsibility to manage his physical, mental and emotional condition.

Including times where he is excluded from his child care.

If your provider excluded for something like that it would be YOUR responsibility to find back up care rather than just assume that since you can't take that much time off work or keep your child home that the provider should simply be the one to take care of it.

Providers manage MULTIPLE kids/families as well as their own.

YOUR individual situation has NO bearing on that.
Your individual situation is your issue to manage.

I'm tired of reading posts from parents about how little PTO time they have left or how difficult it is that they have to manage or deal with their child's issues.

It's not MY child so its not MY problem.

Really? You like getting paid, no? It's a simple equation really. If I take too much time off, I lose my job. If I lose my job then I no longer need your services. I'm not sure why that's such a hard concept.

We're not talking about a walking contagion here. This is a kid who might have some congestion, but is fine with a morning/night cough suppresant.

Do you close your doors every time you (or your kid) has a runny nose? How about while taking the last 7-9 days of an antibiotic? Didn't think so. You act like you want to hold parents to such high standards, but are you holding yourself to the same standards?

[preschoolteacher]

Really? You like getting paid, no? It's a simple equation really. If I take too much time off, I lose my job. If I lose my job then I no longer need your services. I'm not sure why that's such a hard concept.

We're not talking about a walking contagion here. This is a kid who might have some congestion, but is fine with a morning/night cough suppresant.

Do you close your doors every time you (or your kid) has a runny nose? How about while taking the last 7-9 days of an antibiotic? Didn't think so. You act like you want to hold parents to such high standards, but are you holding yourself to the same standards?

You are misinformed. No provider I've ever met online or in person would exclude a child for mild congestion. Certainly no one mentioned keeping a kid out for mild congestion in this post.

Providers exclude for things like fever over 100, vomiting, diarrhea, unexplained rashes,and so on.

If you signed up with a provider who excludes for a common cold, you knew that going into it.

[AuntTami]

Really? You like getting paid, no? It's a simple equation really. If I take too much time off, I lose my job. If I lose my job then I no longer need your services. I'm not sure why that's such a hard concept.

We're not talking about a walking contagion here. This is a kid who might have some congestion, but is fine with a morning/night cough suppresant.

Do you close your doors every time you (or your kid) has a runny nose? How about while taking the last 7-9 days of an antibiotic? Didn't think so. You act like you want to hold parents to such high standards, but are you holding yourself to the same standards?

Sure we want to get paid, but we also want to get paid from ALL of our parents, not just one family. Which means we do what is best for the GROUP, which includes not taking sick children.

I personally allow kids to come if they have a minor cold(sniffling, runny nose, dry non productive cough etc) However, if they're coughing up mucous, or their nose is running more than I can keep up with without jeopardizing the safety of ALL of my children, then parents get called for pick up.

It is YOUR responsibility, as a parent, to have a back up provider. That's the price you pay when you sign your child up for an in-home provider vs. a center, you need to have a back up provider because sometimes things happen. We get sick, too!

If I needed to take an antibiotic and my doctor said I needed to stay away from children while I took it, you bet your butt that I would close my doors. If a child went to the doctor and was given an antibiotic, I would exclude until the doctor gave the OK PER a doctors NOTE, not based on parents word, that it would be okay for the child to come back. If thats 2 days, or 2 weeks, that's up to the DOCTOR to decide. I follow doctors orders.

[Parent]

Sure we want to get paid, but we also want to get paid from ALL of our parents, not just one family. Which means we do what is best for the GROUP, which includes not taking sick children.

I personally allow kids to come if they have a minor cold(sniffling, runny nose, dry non productive cough etc) However, if they're coughing up mucous, or their nose is running more than I can keep up with without jeopardizing the safety of ALL of my children, then parents get called for pick up.

It is YOUR responsibility, as a parent, to have a back up provider. That's the price you pay when you sign your child up for an in-home provider vs. a center, you need to have a back up provider because sometimes things happen. We get sick, too!

If I needed to take an antibiotic and my doctor said I needed to stay away from children while I took it, you bet your butt that I would close my doors. If a child went to the doctor and was given an antibiotic, I would exclude until the doctor gave the OK PER a doctors NOTE, not based on parents word, that it would be okay for the child to come back. If thats 2 days, or 2 weeks, that's up to the DOCTOR to decide. I follow doctors orders.

In the situation I'm talking about, I did have a doctor's note clearing him to return. Like I said in my original post, he wasn't contagious. I had kept him out two days the previous week and was a good 3-4 days into the course of medicine.

[Blackcat31]

Really? You like getting paid, no? It's a simple equation really. If I take too much time off, I lose my job. If I lose my job then I no longer need your services. I'm not sure why that's such a hard concept.

We're not talking about a walking contagion here. This is a kid who might have some congestion, but is fine with a morning/night cough suppresant.

Do you close your doors every time you (or your kid) has a runny nose? How about while taking the last 7-9 days of an antibiotic? Didn't think so. You act like you want to hold parents to such high standards, but are you holding yourself to the same standards?

Still not connecting YOUR parental responsibilities to them being MY issue. :confused:

If your child is excluded from care for whatever reason, it's YOUR responsibility to have a back up plan so that you can work.

NONE of that has ANYTHING to do with your child care provider.

As for my own children, yes....every single time they were excluded from their care provider I found a back up provider if I needed to be at work and yes, for the record, you can search my posts but I have ALWAYS advocated for providers to follow their own illness policies so please don't assume that I require my clients to follow different standards than I myself follow.

If you read the handbook/policy book your provider has and it says your child will be excluded from care for xxx illnesses and conditions and you can't manage that, then find another provider. It's not a hard concept.

I am VEYR strict with my illness polices and my clients know AND agree with them......or they wouldn't have signed on with me.

Their job retention due to caring for their own child has ZERO to do with me.

[permanentvacation]

Parent,

Yes, the simple equation is... sick child=stays home. There's your equation. The amount of time a parent takes off work is not the provider's problem. Parents need to have back up child care if they are not able to take off work themselves whenever their child is ill.

In my area, the law states that a child must be home while ill PLUS be home while HEALTHY for 24 hours before they can return to daycare. It's for the health and safety of EVERYONE in the child care environment. The fact that some parents only think of themselves and not the health of the other children in the daycare or the health of the daycare provider is horribly selfish and irresponsible. Yes, I understand that the parent needs to work, but not at the risk of other children's health.

Picture this...
You are one daycare provider with 6-10 kids (different states allow different amounts of children), you and the children are sitting on the floor in circle time. Johnny, who you just knew didn't feel well and were sure his mother doped him up with medicine that morning, with no warning throws up spewing puke on another child and yourself. Now, you have puke on 3 people that you have to clean up, puke all over the floor, Johnny and the other child he threw up on are crying, you have throw up all over your lap, all over the floor, and the other 4-8 children start retching as if they are going to throw up now. You have to stop the activity you were doing, undress the two children (one at a time), wash them off with diaper wipes, put their messy clothes in bags, dress them in their spare clothes (often, at this moment, Johnny will throw up a second time), and you are still wearing puked on clothes! You certainly can't take a shower, so the best you can do is quickly change clothes and wipe your self off with a rag, paper towels, or diaper wipes as quickly as possible as to not leave your children unattended too long. You also have to clean the throw up out of the carpet where you were sitting for circle time. While you are washing and redressing the 2 children, getting yourself cleaned up and redressed, and cleaning puke out of the carpet, you also have to keep the children calm and occupied. You have to call Johnny's parents to tell them to come get him, and you have to call the other child's parents and explain that Johnny threw up on their child! Do you want your child to be thrown up on at daycare by another child who's mother KNEW he was sick that morning but sent him to daycare anyway? I don't think you do!

So, yes, it is REQUIRED that you keep your sick child home.

[Heidi]

In the situation I'm talking about, I did have a doctor's note clearing him to return. Like I said in my original post, he wasn't contagious. I had kept him out two days the previous week and was a good 3-4 days into the course of medicine.

Most of us here try to be reasonable, really. It's usually a fever, vomiting, diarrhea, and/or unable to participate in activities (think glassy eyed kid who whines all day..now imagine caring for 5-8 other ones). The OP's situation was that the parent used medication to try to HIDE the fact that she was bringing a sick child to daycare. A child TOO sick to be at daycare.

If your child was sick, but had a lingering cough, most of us would not exclude him knowing that you'd been to the doctor, and that you'd be giving him cough medicine per the doctor's instructions, and that he was behaving like a well child.

Knowing it is important, because any type of medical emergency could (hopefully would never) come up, and one of the first questions emergency personnel would ask is "has he taken any medication?". Obviously, a provider giving the wrong answer could endanger the child.

BC got a little feisty because we get a lot of "well, I can't take any more time off work". Well, they are NOT our children, and therefore, that part really isn't our responsibility. As other's have said, our responsibility is to the group, and that includes the provider. If we close because we're now sick due to a dope-and-drop, then EVERYBODY gets ticked off.

[Heidi]

Parent,

Yes, the simple equation is... sick child=stays home. There's your equation. The amount of time a parent takes off work is not the provider's problem. Parents need to have back up child care if they are not able to take off work themselves whenever their child is ill.

In my area, the law states that a child must be home while ill PLUS be home while HEALTHY for 24 hours before they can return to daycare. It's for the health and safety of EVERYONE in the child care environment. The fact that some parents only think of themselves and not the health of the other children in the daycare or the health of the daycare provider is horribly selfish and irresponsible. Yes, I understand that the parent needs to work, but not at the risk of other children's health.

Picture this...
You are one daycare provider with 6-10 kids (different states allow different amounts of children), you and the children are sitting on the floor in circle time. Johnny, who you just knew didn't feel well and were sure his mother doped him up with medicine that morning, with no warning throws up spewing puke on another child and yourself. Now, you have puke on 3 people that you have to clean up, puke all over the floor, Johnny and the other child he threw up on are crying, you have throw up all over your lap, all over the floor, and the other 4-8 children start retching as if they are going to throw up now. You have to stop the activity you were doing, undress the two children (one at a time), wash them off with diaper wipes, put their messy clothes in bags, dress them in their spare clothes (often, at this moment, Johnny will throw up a second time), and you are still wearing puked on clothes! You certainly can't take a shower, so the best you can do is quickly change clothes and wipe your self off with a rag, paper towels, or diaper wipes as quickly as possible as to not leave your children unattended too long. You also have to clean the throw up out of the carpet where you were sitting for circle time. While you are washing and redressing the 2 children, getting yourself cleaned up and redressed, and cleaning puke out of the carpet, you also have to keep the children calm and occupied. You have to call Johnny's parents to tell them to come get him, and you have to call the other child's parents and explain that Johnny threw up on their child! Do you want your child to be thrown up on at daycare by another child who's mother KNEW he was sick that morning but sent him to daycare anyway? I don't think you do!

So, yes, it is REQUIRED that you keep your sick child home.

She is NOT making up this scenario. Every single seasoned daycare provider has had this exact same thing happen at least once, if not more. But, she forgot about the infants who immediately crawl over to see what's going on, and then crawl THROUGH the mess. ::::::

[CraftyMom]

Parent,

Yes, the simple equation is... sick child=stays home. There's your equation. The amount of time a parent takes off work is not the provider's problem. Parents need to have back up child care if they are not able to take off work themselves whenever their child is ill.

In my area, the law states that a child must be home while ill PLUS be home while HEALTHY for 24 hours before they can return to daycare. It's for the health and safety of EVERYONE in the child care environment. The fact that some parents only think of themselves and not the health of the other children in the daycare or the health of the daycare provider is horribly selfish and irresponsible. Yes, I understand that the parent needs to work, but not at the risk of other children's health.

Picture this...
You are one daycare provider with 6-10 kids (different states allow different amounts of children), you and the children are sitting on the floor in circle time. Johnny, who you just knew didn't feel well and were sure his mother doped him up with medicine that morning, with no warning throws up spewing puke on another child and yourself. Now, you have puke on 3 people that you have to clean up, puke all over the floor, Johnny and the other child he threw up on are crying, you have throw up all over your lap, all over the floor, and the other 4-8 children start retching as if they are going to throw up now. You have to stop the activity you were doing, undress the two children (one at a time), wash them off with diaper wipes, put their messy clothes in bags, dress them in their spare clothes (often, at this moment, Johnny will throw up a second time), and you are still wearing puked on clothes! You certainly can't take a shower, so the best you can do is quickly change clothes and wipe your self off with a rag, paper towels, or diaper wipes as quickly as possible as to not leave your children unattended too long. You also have to clean the throw up out of the carpet where you were sitting for circle time. While you are washing and redressing the 2 children, getting yourself cleaned up and redressed, and cleaning puke out of the carpet, you also have to keep the children calm and occupied. You have to call Johnny's parents to tell them to come get him, and you have to call the other child's parents and explain that Johnny threw up on their child! Do you want your child to be thrown up on at daycare by another child who's mother KNEW he was sick that morning but sent him to daycare anyway? I don't think you do!

So, yes, it is REQUIRED that you keep your sick child home.

happyface

And this isn't an exaggeration.. I literally had this happen to me! During circle time, child throws up on me, himself, and the child next to him. I have to loudly yell FREEZE as kids start freaking out and stepping in the vomit. Sick child is crying and vomits again. I quickly stripped everyone contaminated down and let them be in their diapers for a while, and sent them in the other room with tv while I cleaned, except the sick child who I laid on his mat. Called the mom then quickly changed my clothes. At this point the child has a fever now.

Very stressful situation to say the least. I do not desire to clean your child's vomit and then clean his friends who have been vomited on and ran through it, and clean myself. Not to mention the horrible stench that lingered.

Permanent Vacation, it's like you were in my home that day ::

All could have been avoided, mom says "Oh yeah he said he wasn't feeling well this morning, I thought he was exaggerating"

[Cradle2crayons]

happyface

And this isn't an exaggeration.. I literally had this happen to me! During circle time, child throws up on me, himself, and the child next to him. I have to loudly yell FREEZE as kids start freaking out and stepping in the vomit. Sick child is crying and vomits again. I quickly stripped everyone contaminated down and let them be in their diapers for a while, and sent them in the other room with tv while I cleaned, except the sick child who I laid on his mat. Called the mom then quickly changed my clothes. At this point the child has a fever now.

Very stressful situation to say the least. I do not desire to clean your child's vomit and then clean his friends who have been vomited on and ran through it, and clean myself. Not to mention the horrible stench that lingered.

Permanent Vacation, it's like you were in my home that day ::

All could have been avoided, mom says "Oh yeah he said he wasn't feeling well this morning, I thought he was exaggerating"

You forgot to mention.... You fall the parents and they refuse to pick up, say they can't miss work, they'll try to call the auntie, etc etc etc

[Parent]

Again, I point to my original statement. "While I wouldn't give my kid Tylenol for a fever before dropoff, I can't keep him out for a week while he takes a course of prescription cough syrup."

I will keep him out when he's sick and/or actively contagious, and especially if he's puking. I got puked on for the first time a few weeks ago and it ****ed. But, I just can't keep him out because he's finishing up a course of cough syrup/antibiotics. If I've seen the pedi and the kid has been cleared to go back to daycare then I have to go back to work.

My job actually requires a copy of the doctor's note. If I have a note that says he's cleared to return to day care on Monday then my boss requires me to be there on Monday. Not on Tuesday, or Wednesday, or next Monday when my kid finishes the entire course of meds. I only get 6 sick days a year, and only three of them are paid. If I'm lucky I can find backup for a day or two, but I don't have anyone who is available for a week at a time for something like this. Exclusion simply for being on a medicine would wipe me out by Feb 1.

I do understand that there are more families than just mine that you have to think about. However, I seriously doubt that these families are going to pay my bills if I lose my job.