The HOA Wants to Shut Me Down

[Unregistered]

I have chosen to post as unregistered.

I have a small daycare which is no more than 4 children at a time. I am not required to be licensed by my state. I don't advertise in my yard or really anywhere public. I mostly get referrals. I don't take subsidies, food program or any funding. We live in the home, have a large playroom but there is no other signs that this house is out of the ordinary. We don't have any issues with the neighbors, in fact we have great relationships. No issues with the kids leaving toys everywhere or the parents causing extra traffic.

The homeowners association sent us a letter telling us that covenants dont allow for me to operate a business/daycare from my home. My husband called and let them know that at the time, I didn't even have any kids in care (this was several months ago) and further, I am not a business, not licensed, and he didnt feel that they could tell me I couldnt babysit children. They backed off for the moment.

Now we have another letter from the HOA attorney saying we need to shut down babysitting kids in 10 days or a suit will be filed! I am shocked that they are being so nasty about it so quickly seeing as how we have absolutely no issues going on here and our "daycare" is in a gray area. Do I make money offering services from my home? yes. but again, I am not licensed as a business and technically, everything we are doing is within residential purposes for a home. Also, I take care of teachers kids so there are months during the year (over 4 months) that there are no extra children here! I have four of my own so perhaps people have noticed kids, not knowing that most or all of them are mine or occasional friends over or whatever.

My husband has called our attorney who charges 250 an hour I have to take care of two kids for a full week to make enough to pay him for one hour's work. We have an appt this week to discuss options. but going to work outside the home is not an option right now. The market is difficult in my area right now and added, I would have to make enough to send my four kids to daycare and. after school programs. Feeling very dismal right now.

Any tips or advice?

[CraftyMom]

I have chosen to post as unregistered.

I have a small daycare which is no more than 4 children at a time. I am not required to be licensed by my state. I don't advertise in my yard or really anywhere public. I mostly get referrals. I don't take subsidies, food program or any funding. We live in the home, have a large playroom but there is no other signs that this house is out of the ordinary. We don't have any issues with the neighbors, in fact we have great relationships. No issues with the kids leaving toys everywhere or the parents causing extra traffic.

The homeowners association sent us a letter telling us that covenants dont allow for me to operate a business/daycare from my home. My husband called and let them know that at the time, I didn't even have any kids in care (this was several months ago) and further, I am not a business, not licensed, and he didnt feel that they could tell me I couldnt babysit children. They backed off for the moment.

Now we have another letter from the HOA attorney saying we need to shut down babysitting kids in 10 days or a suit will be filed! I am shocked that they are being so nasty about it so quickly seeing as how we have absolutely no issues going on here and our "daycare" is in a gray area. Do I make money offering services from my home? yes. but again, I am not licensed as a business and technically, everything we are doing is within residential purposes for a home. Also, I take care of teachers kids so there are months during the year (over 4 months) that there are no extra children here! I have four of my own so perhaps people have noticed kids, not knowing that most or all of them are mine or occasional friends over or whatever.

My husband has called our attorney who charges 250 an hour I have to take care of two kids for a full week to make enough to pay him for one hour's work. We have an appt this week to discuss options. but going to work outside the home is not an option right now. The market is difficult in my area right now and added, I would have to make enough to send my four kids to daycare and. after school programs. Feeling very dismal right now.

Any tips or advice?

Is this a detached house? Or a condo or apartment?

My guess is someone must have complained, whether or not there have been any problems. Apparently one of your neighbors has an issue with it. Or several, and instead of speaking to you they banded together and went to the HOA.

I don't belong to a HOA, so I don't know the rules.

What if you had 8 children of your own, would there be a rule against that?

[nannyde]

Did you sign an agreement that you would not operate a business? You are saying not being licensed means it is not a business. If you take money for services and pay taxes on the money it is a business.

They may have someone else in the hoa who wants to start doing daycare and is using you as the reason why they should be allowed. It's not about if it's a problem or if there are times when you don't have kids. It's about your agreement with them. They get to define what a business is and their definition may simply be if you make money from home which entails any human coming onto the hoa property that receives services that are paid for.

[Leigh]

What state are you in? Some states have laws that bar HOA's or landlords from banning childcares.

[craftymissbeth]

Even if you aren't licensed you still run a business. Out of curiosity, does this mean you also don't pay taxes since you don't consider yourself a business?

If you signed the paperwork for your HOA and it says you can't run a business then unfortunately you have to shut down.

[hope]

Before paying the attorney $250 an hour i would read over the paperwork you signed with the HOA. The posters above may be right.

[Laurel]

What state are you in? Some states have laws that bar HOA's or landlords from banning childcares.

Exactly, in Florida it is a state law that childcare can be done in the home. Home childcare is exempt from the small business in a home rule. I also am in an HOA and the state law trumps their rules.

If you are not in Florida, check if your state has a similar law.

Good luck.

Laurel

[snbauser]

Depending on your state, you may or may not be able to do anything. HOA's are strong. Here we now have to get our HOA's approval before licensing will even come out (we have to be licensed for more than 2 kids). It used to be "recommended" but now it is required. I know of a provider who opened a home daycare before this requirement (I think she is a large part of why we are now required). She fought for a really long time, hired attorneys, etc and lost. The HOA rules were clear that there could be no home businesses period within the subdivision. She tried to fight it saying that they couldn't regulate all of it because it would include things like tupperware. The HOA said if they found out about it, that would be shut down too.

I would strongly recommend that before you spend the money for an attorney that you go back and read your HOA covenants that you had to agree when moving into your house. If there is nothing specific, then you might have a case. If it says no business, it will be a challenge.

[Sugar Magnolia]

HOA's are like mini Kingdoms. I live in one (don't operate my business there though, thank goodness) and they are over-the-top bullies! Just this weekend I was ordered to wash my driveway. They seem to love threatening lawsuits. We had two weeks of solid rain this summer, and my mailbox fell over from saturated ground. Yep, within 24 hours I was told to correct this "issue". Micro manage much?

No real advice.....just sympathy. :hug:

[Laurel]

HOA's are like mini Kingdoms. I live in one (don't operate my business there though, thank goodness) and they are over-the-top bullies! Just this weekend I was ordered to wash my driveway. They seem to love threatening lawsuits. We had two weeks of solid rain this summer, and my mailbox fell over from saturated ground. Yep, within 24 hours I was told to correct this "issue". Micro manage much?

No real advice.....just sympathy. :hug:

I am lucky that our HOA doesn't really get in our business. I know several families that are 'sneaking' businesses in though or have. We had a hairdresser having people to her house, a fireman that runs a First Aid/CPR business on the side (guess who always did my First Aid certification ), a lawn service although equipment is kept elsewhere but has a home office. Oh and the guy at the end of my street rents rooms in his small house. They have to see his signs every so often when a room is empty.

Some HOA's around here are brutal though. I think I just got lucky...so far.

Laurel

[Unregistered]

Is this a detached house? Or a condo or apartment?

My guess is someone must have complained, whether or not there have been any problems. Apparently one of your neighbors has an issue with it. Or several, and instead of speaking to you they banded together and went to the HOA.

I don't belong to a HOA, so I don't know the rules.

What if you had 8 children of your own, would there be a rule against that?

This is a detached house.

[Unregistered]

Did you sign an agreement that you would not operate a business? You are saying not being licensed means it is not a business. If you take money for services and pay taxes on the money it is a business.

They may have someone else in the hoa who wants to start doing daycare and is using you as the reason why they should be allowed. It's not about if it's a problem or if there are times when you don't have kids. It's about your agreement with them. They get to define what a business is and their definition may simply be if you make money from home which entails any human coming onto the hoa property that receives services that are paid for.

we did sign the covenants which said one sentence about daycare centers and licensed businesses, which we are neither.

[Unregistered]

Even if you aren't licensed you still run a business. Out of curiosity, does this mean you also don't pay taxes since you don't consider yourself a business?

If you signed the paperwork for your HOA and it says you can't run a business then unfortunately you have to shut down.

i do pay taxes on my income as a self employed person.

[Second Home]

Daycare / daycare center ,unfortunately I think this will apply to you .

Here in MD we have to have a letter of approval from a HOA to run a daycare .

[Unregistered]

Daycare / daycare center ,unfortunately I think this will apply to you .

Here in MD we have to have a letter of approval from a HOA to run a daycare .

the gray are is because according to the state, I am not a daycare center or a daycare or a licensed business. So the HOA is trying to prove something that they don't necessarily have the support for. The covenants do not define the HOA definition of business or daycare to include any form of money making venture from the home.....their definition is "center" which we are not and "licensed" which we are not.

They have taken at least one other daycare to court (and lost!) in the past. This was an actual licensed home daycare that operated in the neighborhood. They have also tried to stop several babysitting moms (like me) and as far as I know, no one has stopped there either. So there is a precedence here which is on our side.