The Choice Not to Vaccinate

[DaveA]

My concern business-wise is where have they drawn the line as far as discrimination goes in this situation? In Kansas, the only exemptions are religious or medical. If I deny a family care based on not vaccinating then is it religious or medical discrimination?

Personally, I don't think so. As I understand it, in Illinois providers are given pretty wide latitude on refusing to provide care when it involves situations they feel uncomfortable with or unable to properly provide care for. As for exemptions, someone choosing to not vaccinate for a faith based or medical reason would be far more likely to be able to persuade me to provide care than someone who just didn't want to vaccinate because they read an article on Facebook. Not saying most people who don't vaccinate don't research or choose carefully. Just that there are idiots on both sides of every argument.

[Thriftylady]

Out of curiosity, why not the gardasil vaccine?

Because it is new, and I heard things about it and DD was due for it at the same time I had this issue with the flu shot happen. Even our doctor couldn't tell me he completely trusted it was safe at the time due to the newness of it.

[Unregistered]

The pertussis vaccine is minimally effective. The baby's death is a tragedy, but it is not the "fault" of those who choose not to vaccinate their children. Pertussis can be spread even by fully vaccinated children.

The way I understand it, pertussis vaccines ARE effective, but they just are not effective for a lifetime, you have to have boosters beyond childhood in order to protect the young children.


"Q: Can pertussis be prevented with vaccines?

A: Yes. Pertussis, or whooping cough, can be prevented with vaccines. Before pertussis vaccines became widely available in the 1940s, about 200,000 children got sick with it each year in the US and about 9,000 died as a result of the infection. Now we see about 10,000–40,000 cases reported each year and unfortunately about 10–20 deaths."



"Q: Do pertussis vaccines protect for a lifetime? If I've had whooping cough, do I still need a pertussis booster?

A: Getting sick with pertussis or getting pertussis vaccines doesn't provide lifelong protection, which means you can still get pertussis and pass it onto infants.

Pertussis vaccines are effective, but not perfect. They typically offer high levels of protection within the first 2 years of getting vaccinated, but then protection decreases over time. This is known as waning immunity. Similarly, natural infection may also only protect you for a few years.

In general, DTaP vaccines are 80-90% effective. Among kids who get all 5 doses of DTaP on schedule, effectiveness is very high within the year following the 5th dose – at least 9 out of 10 kids are fully protected. There is a modest decrease in effectiveness in each following year. About 7 out of 10 kids are fully protected 5 years after getting their last dose of DTaP and the other 3 out of 10 kids are partially protected – protecting against serious disease."

CDC website

[LysesKids]

The way I understand it, pertussis vaccines ARE effective, but they just are not effective for a lifetime, you have to have boosters beyond childhood in order to protect the young children.


"Q: Can pertussis be prevented with vaccines?

A: Yes. Pertussis, or whooping cough, can be prevented with vaccines. Before pertussis vaccines became widely available in the 1940s, about 200,000 children got sick with it each year in the US and about 9,000 died as a result of the infection. Now we see about 10,000–40,000 cases reported each year and unfortunately about 10–20 deaths."



"Q: Do pertussis vaccines protect for a lifetime? If I've had whooping cough, do I still need a pertussis booster?

A: Getting sick with pertussis or getting pertussis vaccines doesn't provide lifelong protection, which means you can still get pertussis and pass it onto infants.

Pertussis vaccines are effective, but not perfect. They typically offer high levels of protection within the first 2 years of getting vaccinated, but then protection decreases over time. This is known as waning immunity. Similarly, natural infection may also only protect you for a few years.

In general, DTaP vaccines are 80-90% effective. Among kids who get all 5 doses of DTaP on schedule, effectiveness is very high within the year following the 5th dose – at least 9 out of 10 kids are fully protected. There is a modest decrease in effectiveness in each following year. About 7 out of 10 kids are fully protected 5 years after getting their last dose of DTaP and the other 3 out of 10 kids are partially protected – protecting against serious disease."

CDC website

My family is one of the ones this doesn't work for... my own grandchild who was fully vaxed got whooping cough and gave it to his mom (medical exemption when she was younger); it almost killed my daughter & her unborn (#4 grand) because the doctors misdiagnosed her. They also assumed she had been vaxed instead of checking records... the same idiot Dr's pumped her with Penicillin when it was clearly in the chart she was deathly allergic. Talk about a messed up situation. A few posters here may remember the situation from another Forum... it was during the Derecho a few years ago - I was trying to get from AR to Baltimore where they had airlifted my dd. I got stuck on the WV/KY line for 2 days not knowing if I would see my child again because of no elec, no gas, no ice etc. Those in states not affected had no clue had bad some areas really were

[hope]

I will not accept any family that doesn't vaccinate. DH has a compromised immune system so it is not worth the risk for me. I am very upfront about this at interview. While I sympathize with a parents decision not to vaccinate, I do wish parents would take precautions if they do chose to not vaccinate. We as providers complain all the time on this forum about parents that send their children in sick. The risk is much greater when they are sending in an child that is not immunized.

[daycarediva]

My kids all had severe reactions to the MMR vaccine, so after my son had a seizure and 105* fever, the pediatrician said no more MMR.

I've never had the situation come up yet in my program.

I'm not commenting on the personal decision of vaccinating/ not vaccinating. That is for each family to make on their own.

As a provider, I look at it this way: Every family can decide not to vaccinate. I can decide not to provide care for a family based on their decisions that could affect myself and others. I don't think less of people who don't vaccinate, but I don't think I would provide care for the family .

Same here, and I am upfront about it. UP TO DATE on immunizations.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

Majority of people who contract whooping cough have received the vaccination. That is all I needed to say.

[SignMeUp]

Majority of people who contract whooping cough have received the vaccination. That is all I needed to say.

But it's not really that simple. The immunization has still cut down the number of cases drastically from years before the immunization was available.

This is a very serious illness for children under two and should not be taken lightly. Of course there are people who are unable to have the immunization; my child was one of them. After her third DTaP, she did not continue to have it because she was in a risk group for complications.

This vaccine's effectiveness fades with time. Here, there are PSAs frequently, letting people know that adults should have the vaccine to help protect young children, even if they were "fully immunized" as children.

[Angelsj]

The way I understand it, pertussis vaccines ARE effective, but they just are not effective for a lifetime, you have to have boosters beyond childhood in order to protect the young children.


"Q: Can pertussis be prevented with vaccines?

A: Yes. Pertussis, or whooping cough, can be prevented with vaccines. Before pertussis vaccines became widely available in the 1940s, about 200,000 children got sick with it each year in the US and about 9,000 died as a result of the infection. Now we see about 10,000–40,000 cases reported each year and unfortunately about 10–20 deaths."



"Q: Do pertussis vaccines protect for a lifetime? If I've had whooping cough, do I still need a pertussis booster?

A: Getting sick with pertussis or getting pertussis vaccines doesn't provide lifelong protection, which means you can still get pertussis and pass it onto infants.

Pertussis vaccines are effective, but not perfect. They typically offer high levels of protection within the first 2 years of getting vaccinated, but then protection decreases over time. This is known as waning immunity. Similarly, natural infection may also only protect you for a few years.

In general, DTaP vaccines are 80-90% effective. Among kids who get all 5 doses of DTaP on schedule, effectiveness is very high within the year following the 5th dose – at least 9 out of 10 kids are fully protected. There is a modest decrease in effectiveness in each following year. About 7 out of 10 kids are fully protected 5 years after getting their last dose of DTaP and the other 3 out of 10 kids are partially protected – protecting against serious disease."

CDC website

None of this addresses what was said in my post. A child who has been fully vaccinated is just as capable of passing pertussis to you as a child who is not vaccinated. Look carefully at this chart.
The CDC can say whatever they like in their FAQ, but their own fact sheets deny this. If you look at the chart at the bottom "DTaP vaccination history of pertussis cases" you will note very quickly that across the board, getting more doses of pertussis vaccine INCREASES your chance of getting pertussis.

Pertussis is a bacteria. This already decreases the effectiveness of a vaccine.

[_Dana_]

I require that my DCKs be vaccinated and kept current on them.

My family has to be vaccinated because we are an international family. My husband is Bahamian, my mother-in-law is French, and my brother-in-law is from St. Maarten. My father-in-law travels internationally to speak at conventions and symposiums. In order to travel to other countries, their immigration laws require that we be vaccinated. I have friends from all over the world who, on occasion, travel home to see their families. This means that we may be exposed to all different kinds of germs. My daycare families know this and understand why I require vaccinations.

It is a necessary precaution for my family and business.

[finsup]

Not only are we leaving the number of children up to God (so hopefully, lots of of babies around our home!) I typically start caring for children when they are just 6-8 weeks old. I'm not risking it with a family that doesn't want to vaccinate. This just wouldn't be the right fit for them. Whooping cough is really scary when you've got babies under 6 months. Then I think what we didn't get the vax and passed it to a 6 week old baby? I don't know how I could forgive myself. I know it still could happen since the vax isn't 100% but by getting it, I would at least know I did everything I could.

[Angelsj]

Not only are we leaving the number of children up to God (so hopefully, lots of of babies around our home!) I typically start caring for children when they are just 6-8 weeks old. I'm not risking it with a family that doesn't want to vaccinate. This just wouldn't be the right fit for them. Whooping cough is really scary when you've got babies under 6 months. Then I think what we didn't get the vax and passed it to a 6 week old baby? I don't know how I could forgive myself. I know it still could happen since the vax isn't 100% but by getting it, I would at least know I did everything I could.

I am only going to say this once more, then I am going to drop it. You are certainly welcome to raise/ vaccinate your own, and run your business any way you like. But if you believe getting people vaccinated is protecting your babies, you are WRONG. A vaccinated person can carry pertussis and pass it along to babies. Being vaccinated against pertussis does not necessarily protect you from getting it, and it in no way protects the babies.

A vaccinated person (assuming the vaccination is effective for them) is not protected from coming in contact with the disease, and can pass it along to infants without actually showing symptoms of illness themselves as they fight off the virus.

The only true protection for little ones is cleanliness. Number one protection is hand washing. Do it often. Do it well. Teach all your children and parents to do it right.

[finsup]

Yes, I am aware of that. Which is why I said this:
I know it still could happen since the vax isn't 100% but by getting it, I would at least know I did everything I could.
I may still get it, I may still pass it on. But because of having the vax, it is LESS likely that I would. At least by getting it, I wouldn't have the worry "oh man, I didn't get that shot. What if it would have prevented it? Just how I would feel personally.

[Unregistered]

None of this addresses what was said in my post. A child who has been fully vaccinated is just as capable of passing pertussis to you as a child who is not vaccinated. Look carefully at this chart.
The CDC can say whatever they like in their FAQ, but their own fact sheets deny this. If you look at the chart at the bottom "DTaP vaccination history of pertussis cases" you will note very quickly that across the board, getting more doses of pertussis vaccine INCREASES your chance of getting pertussis.

Pertussis is a bacteria. This already decreases the effectiveness of a vaccine.

Maybe it doesnt address what you said in your post because they were responding to someone else

[Starburst]

My concern business-wise is where have they drawn the line as far as discrimination goes in this situation? In Kansas, the only exemptions are religious or medical. If I deny a family care based on not vaccinating then is it religious or medical discrimination?

I think medical discrimination would be more if they could not get it for medical reasons such as being allergic to an ingredient in it (I had an ex who said he couldn't get the shot for cat allergies because he said it had eggs in it and he was also allergic to eggs). Most people who don't want to vaccinate are against it as a personal choice.

Most mainstream religions don't strongly restrict many preventative medications (aside from contreseptives), many missionaries actually try to raise money to get vaccines for children in undeveloped countries. Some religions may only say no to certain shots because of the ingredients in it or what it's for; I had one friend in HS who said her mom didn't want her to get the HPV prevention shot because "that shot is for ₩#0r3$" (her exact words, censored because I'm not sure if that word is allowed here).

And if they were seriously practicing and wanted to use that as an excuse then you can look into requesting a note from the leader of their church that says it goes against their beliefs (along with the name of the place of worship and the number of the church/temple/mosque), just like you would if they had a special religious diet that disagreed with food program; mostly to cover your butt if licensing gets involved (depending on your state).

Some smaller branch religions like Christian Scientists typically refuse all medical intervention and rely on prayer alone for physical healing (can vary by church), it would be hard to enroll them anyway since if there was a medical emergency the parents wouldn't want you to take them to a doctor, and you can get in trouble for neglect/abuse/child endangerment if you don't seek reasonable medical attention. Most families that strongly practice that probably avoid mainstream child care programs outside of their religion to avoid medical intervention and abuse/neglect charges (the right to practice religious believes only go so far in this country when it comes to child safety).