I Hate You, You're Not My Friend...

[daycarediva]

I hate you.
You're not my friend.
You're not coming to my house.
You're stupid.
YOU (he/she/this) ****/S

EVERY SINGLE TIME anyone says anything to new-ish dcb, age 4 we get ONE or all of those responses. We had a definite honeymoon period and that's over now. ::

If he is redirected by me (gets in peoples faces, puts hands on kids/overexcited, doesn't always listen the first time and needs to be offered a choice eg. get down from the chair or I will move you) he will stomp off saying these things. He also stomps off or reacts this way when a peer tells him no, or to stop. He has started saying it when he doesn't get one of the swings, or his preferred 'job', essentially when ANYTHING doesn't go his way.

I tried ignoring it the first few times/week one of this, thinking it was attention seeking. Didn't resolve it.

The last two weeks, I have separated him, allowed him to calm down and then spoke to him about it when he is calm. That sometimes escalates it to a full on tantrum. He is ALWAYS apologetic once calm and has obvious impulse control and self regulation issues.

Friday I notified his mother at work that he was having an exceptionally rough day, and she voluntarily came to pick him up early. We emailed over the weekend, and he does this at home as well. They do an immediate TO if he can't calm down and 'be nice' after being spoken to.

My concerns aren't with his behavior, which seem to be developmentally appropriate. Eg. climbing on a chair/testing boundaries. My concerns are with his reaction to ANY adult/child intervention to stop his behavior.

Any ideas? advice? The language is getting picked up by the other kids. Not something I'm willing to deal with long term. I am giving them this week and then putting him on probation/two weeks.

[Thriftylady]

Are his parents willing to have him seen or tested for any issues with his self control? Sounds like he needs some intervention.

[Play Care]

Sounds like the boy I just sent to K this year. Nothing ever really worked - had he not had great parents and good siblings, I would have termed. His tantrums and behavior over even minor redirection were just so exhausting.

I have no doubt in my mind that the school will start making evaluation noises at some point. He had handed me a folder the other day saying it was his homework and asking me to read it to him (he comes for 2 hours after school and that's about what I can deal with) when I looked saw that it was his teacher/parent communication log. Needless to say it's already started...

[daycarediva]

uggghhh. No, his parents seemed surprised I found it so unusual. They are FTP's with NO kid experience. Nice enough, but a might clueless. They also say/do things that drive me batty and I'M SURE lead to this behavior. When child doesn't want to put on shoes at pick up they say "Don't you dare get those shoes on."

I'll be honest- the K teachers 'know' me and my program. There are only 4 of them. I have put 2 of my own kids through K, am good friends with a K teacher and am active in the PTA. My prek visits the K classrooms for a 'tour' at the end of the summer (for the kids going next year) and we spend a morning there doing centers and participating. I have a K teacher's child in care, too. I don't want my program attached to this kiddo if this behavior doesn't improve. It's THAT bad.

He started up before nap/during story because his story wasn't read first. I gave him a minute and then told him to stop screaming or he could put his story away. He screamed "I DON'T CARE! I HATE YOU! STORY TIME ****S!" and was directed to his mat, where he threw a 10 minute tantrum.

NONE of my other kids throw tantrums. So they're all trying not to stare and it's really disruptive.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

1. I don't allow the phrase "I hate you" here. Period.
2. I don't allow the phrase "___ ****s" here. Period.
3. I don't allow the word "stupid" here. Period.
4. We say, "I don't want to play with you right now. Maybe later." instead of, "You're not my friend," little terror child because it hurts others feelings.

I would not ignore it. I would IMMEDIATELY demand he stop it with any of those things. He would get my raised eyebrows face with me bending down 6 inches away from him saying, "We do NOT say I hate you at preschool. You MAY say I don't want to play with you right now." If he did it again, I would send him to read a book separated. I would send him to read books over and over and over again and he could tantrum all he wanted. If he was being destructive with books then he would lose them.

If it didn't get better I would absolutely term.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

uggghhh. No, his parents seemed surprised I found it so unusual. They are FTP's with NO kid experience. Nice enough, but a might clueless. They also say/do things that drive me batty and I'M SURE lead to this behavior. When child doesn't want to put on shoes at pick up they say "Don't you dare get those shoes on."

I'll be honest- the K teachers 'know' me and my program. There are only 4 of them. I have put 2 of my own kids through K, am good friends with a K teacher and am active in the PTA. My prek visits the K classrooms for a 'tour' at the end of the summer (for the kids going next year) and we spend a morning there doing centers and participating. I have a K teacher's child in care, too. I don't want my program attached to this kiddo if this behavior doesn't improve. It's THAT bad.

He started up before nap/during story because his story wasn't read first. I gave him a minute and then told him to stop screaming or he could put his story away. He screamed "I DON'T CARE! I HATE YOU! STORY TIME ****S!" and was directed to his mat, where he threw a 10 minute tantrum.

NONE of my other kids throw tantrums. So they're all trying not to stare and it's really disruptive.

That sounds horrific and I would put him on 2 weeks notice now so at least the ball is rolling and the parents know just how serious you are. That is ridiculous. I would strongly suggest they get the kid tested to see if something else is going on.

[Play Care]

uggghhh. No, his parents seemed surprised I found it so unusual. They are FTP's with NO kid experience. Nice enough, but a might clueless. They also say/do things that drive me batty and I'M SURE lead to this behavior. When child doesn't want to put on shoes at pick up they say "Don't you dare get those shoes on."
.

At one point I had to look at mom and say "this is NOT *normal* for the age"


I will say he's never said something ****s though. Because I think that would be it for me.

[daycarediva]

ECS- that's pretty much exactly how I handle it. The kids KNOW my 'Mom/teacher' face and I typically only have to raise my eyebrows at my other 4's.

Even when redirected to go sit in the quiet area, he will continue to say these things.

His mother picked up 15 minutes late last night, too. He kept telling everyone that he was going to be the last one picked up, and he was going to watch a movie here. Now where would he get that from? He's never been the last one here, and I don't have a tv in my space. I was so annoyed I told her to check his sheet for today's incidents and gave her the late fee.

[Play Care]

ECS- that's pretty much exactly how I handle it. The kids KNOW my 'Mom/teacher' face and I typically only have to raise my eyebrows at my other 4's.

Even when redirected to go sit in the quiet area, he will continue to say these things.

His mother picked up 15 minutes late last night, too. He kept telling everyone that he was going to be the last one picked up, and he was going to watch a movie here. Now where would he get that from? He's never been the last one here, and I don't have a tv in my space. I was so annoyed I told her to check his sheet for today's incidents and gave her the late fee.

How was she about the fee? Did you mention anything of what he said in the note? I wonder if the situation is that they may not realize it's not "normal" behavior, they do know it's exhausting...
Where was he before he was with you and why did they switch day care? I find I rarely get calls for kids who are over 4, and if they are looking there is usually a not so good reason why.

[daycarediva]

How was she about the fee? Did you mention anything of what he said in the note? I wonder if the situation is that they may not realize it's not "normal" behavior, they do know it's exhausting...
Where was he before he was with you and why did they switch day care? I find I rarely get calls for kids who are over 4, and if they are looking there is usually a not so good reason why.

She has never been late before, and said "Oh, I thought you had other kids here later." and I had to say "No, your contracted pick up time is at 5:15. It's 5:30" They always pick up BEFORE 5, too. So it was really unusual.

He was with a friend of the family who does daycare-either illegally or legally unlicensed, not sure which. It was 'play all day'. The woman had twins under a year of her own. Not sure if there were any other kids enrolled. They wanted a preschool before he goes to K.

I get calls for 3/4's often- when parents are preschool shopping.

[daycarediva]

Yes- his daily sheet was covered on the back detailing what he said, what I did and his reaction. I have also started documenting it myself/for my records. He was begging her to go to the playground and she was reading it and said "We'll see." on the way out. I'm sure he went, but I'll ask anyway.

They have only said "we will talk to him" but at 4, he understands and should (IMHO) have a consequence at home as well, since my consequences are limited to a TO.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

ECS- that's pretty much exactly how I handle it. The kids KNOW my 'Mom/teacher' face and I typically only have to raise my eyebrows at my other 4's.

Even when redirected to go sit in the quiet area, he will continue to say these things.

His mother picked up 15 minutes late last night, too. He kept telling everyone that he was going to be the last one picked up, and he was going to watch a movie here. Now where would he get that from? He's never been the last one here, and I don't have a tv in my space. I was so annoyed I told her to check his sheet for today's incidents and gave her the late fee.

Oh dear.

What is his sheet? Is it a running record of issues?

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

Yes- his daily sheet was covered on the back detailing what he said, what I did and his reaction. I have also started documenting it myself/for my records. He was begging her to go to the playground and she was reading it and said "We'll see." on the way out. I'm sure he went, but I'll ask anyway.

They have only said "we will talk to him" but at 4, he understands and should (IMHO) have a consequence at home as well, since my consequences are limited to a TO.

Nevermind, just saw this! That is good that there is documentation.
Talks are great and motivational but I totally agree about consequences at home, too. Unfortunately, I am finding that most parents don't care to do that until their daycare/preschool is threatened.

[daycarediva]

Nevermind, just saw this! That is good that there is documentation.
Talks are great and motivational but I totally agree about consequences at home, too. Unfortunately, I am finding that most parents don't care to do that until their daycare/preschool is threatened.

Dcm emailed me an article. I have a feeling they're on their way out.

http://www.babycenter.com/0_tantrums-why-they-happen-and-what-to-do-about-them_65484.bc

I just want to say really lady? 1. I give choices when possible. 2. I give warnings with time/transitions. 3. I have age appropriate expectations. 4. The severity, duration and frequency of the tantrums are my issue. NOT the actual tantrums themselves, because most kids have a tantrum/cry every once in a while.

I can't move him, I can't stay with him until he calms-I'm caring for 5 other kids!

I am probably going to respond with- maybe little Jr is stressed because he isn't prepared for a preschool environment. -Which just might be the case anyway!

[NeedaVaca]

Dcm emailed me an article. I have a feeling they're on their way out.

http://www.babycenter.com/0_tantrums-why-they-happen-and-what-to-do-about-them_65484.bc

I just want to say really lady? 1. I give choices when possible. 2. I give warnings with time/transitions. 3. I have age appropriate expectations. 4. The severity, duration and frequency of the tantrums are my issue. NOT the actual tantrums themselves, because most kids have a tantrum/cry every once in a while.

I can't move him, I can't stay with him until he calms-I'm caring for 5 other kids!

I am probably going to respond with- maybe little Jr is stressed because he isn't prepared for a preschool environment. -Which just might be the case anyway!

I would actually respond using #4 and then the stressed about not being prepared for preschool. Seriously, I can't believe parents email these kind of articles to seasoned providers, I find it so insulting!