Does Anyone Have Experience With A Dck Who May Have Seizures? Questions/Rant..

[TheGoodLife]

So dcm just texted me from work. She claims that dcd said that I was OK with not giving him the meds. Why in the world would I say that? She said that she gave them to me because she thought I would want them if he does start convulsing. She also said that he does have an appointment this week with the neurologist. For something so important, you would think that they would have said something. And she said sorry for all the drama. She's going to call at naptime, let's see how it goes.

Sounds so confusing! I hope she calls today and you can work out a good resolution for your situation- whether you term or not.

[SquirrellyMama]

Staring into space is absence or "petit mal" seizures. It's usually harmless, and a lot of kiddos outgrow it. My son did. No worries.

As for the rest of it, I have to log in at work and can't respond but OMG!

My dd had these seizures also. I know you said usually harmless, but, but they can also be very dangerous. When having these seizures she didn't stop the activity she was doing. It was kind of like an auto pilot. She had them while eating, and kept eating, but not normally. She was swallowing the food in her mouth in gulps. She had one in the swimming pool. I was there and able to keep her safe, but had I not been there she could have drowned.

The scariest one was when she was riding her bike. I was there, but couldn't stop her bike. Luckily, these are short seizures, but can be deadly in the right circumstance.

My dd also grew out of them after being on meds for a few years.

Kelly

[melilley]

My dd had these seizures also. I know you said usually harmless, but, but they can also be very dangerous. When having these seizures she didn't stop the activity she was doing. It was kind of like an auto pilot. She had them while eating, and kept eating, but not normally. She was swallowing the food in her mouth in gulps. She had one in the swimming pool. I was there and able to keep her safe, but had I not been there she could have drowned.

The scariest one was when she was riding her bike. I was there, but couldn't stop her bike. Luckily, these are short seizures, but can be deadly in the right circumstance.

My dd also grew out of them after being on meds for a few years.

Kelly

This is exactly what dcb does! He will eat and just sit and stare at times and also swallows his food in gulps when he stares.

[melilley]

The thing is, and I've seen it preached over and over on this forum, we don't know what the other conversation was about. It could've been very important. We don't know, not even op, the extent this mom is going to. We can assume, but that doesn't make it true. I'm sure she isn't giving op a play by play of every Dr visit, every phone discussion with Dr's, every Google search she does for more info.

I see complaints about the inadequacies of parents on the forum all the time, some of them from me. But I think this mom IS on top of it. She's still learning the ropes of what it means to have an epileptic child. She's going through some life altering changes right now and it is to be expected that she's overwhelmed. That's exactly what it sounds like to me, an overwhelmed mom.

The aspects that she doesn't have together? She'll get it together. She just needs some time to settle into this new reality. I do not believe this parent deserves a bashing because she's overwhelmed. She needs some sympathy, a kind ear, a shoulder. And a chance to gather herself and her thoughts.

I am in the extreme minority on this, which is odd to me because I have extensive experience with epilepsy and can offer tons of advice. But I guess the fear of the unknown trumps that (not directed at you op). I just hate to see these people termed over something they cannot help and are in the process of figuring out.

Yes, it's a challenge. Yes, it's new and unknown territory. But how else will we grow as providers if we don't challenge ourselves? If we don't move out of our comfort zones? We can't all have a perfectly healthy, well behaved group of little angels. That's desirable of course, but it's not reality. And aren't we supposed to be in a partnership with these parents? A partnership to raise happy, healthy, smart children? I find it very disheartening that so many posters would instantly jump ship over this. The meds can be negotiated. There was one bad phone call where mom was distracted. That deserves a termination??

Everyone is saying it is for the safety of the other children, but those children would not be in any danger. There is some thrashing about that occurs with grand mals, but if you quickly move the children out of the way, there's no danger. When it's over, simply call mom for pick up. But once the child is established on meds, it isn't likely he will seize at daycare.

For the ones who said what happens when you're out for a walk or at the store, etc. What do you think mom will do in those situations? She's not going to segregate her child from society because he MIGHT have a seizure. That would be ridiculous. Life goes on. You have to roll with the punches. So yes, for me, a person who did lots of research and made sure I was educated on the type of seizures and how to handle them if/when they come, it IS no big deal.

I disagree with the statement in bold. Yes, the other children could be in danger, especially if we are on a walk. I usually have 5-6 children and they are all 2.5 and under, with the exception of one 3 yo. What would the children do if I had to stop and take care of the child who is having a seizure? I can't be with dcb and all the other dck's who could run in the street and potentially get hurt. As for mom, it's just her and her other ds. She's not out and about with 5-6 toddlers.

And I also don't believe mom is on top of it. She would have called and gotten him in asap. My sis is a RN at the same hospital and she said they always have a neurologist on call and they shouldn't have let him go if they said he should see one. There are other things that this dcf has done in the past and I have written about them quite a few times on here. My biggest concerns are dcb as well as the other children. Heres the story that always gets me and is one reason why I have some concerns on this issue: Dcb also has asthma. One day he was having a bad attack. I called mom, no answer, called dad, no answer, called moms work and they told me that dcm left earlier because dcb was in the hospital. He was here with me! Finally dcd calls back and tells me that dcm went home because they closed the school and that he will call her. Finally mom calls and I told her I had been trying to get ahold of her because of dcb's condition and the first thing she asked was what I told her work. She did come to get him and low and behold, she had to take him to the hospital.

I should have termed then. I have a whole slew of stories about this family and this is one reason why I feel the need to term and am nervous about keeping dcb with what may be this condition.

[TheGoodLife]

And I also don't believe mom is on top of it. She would have called and gotten him in asap. My sis is a RN at the same hospital and she said they always have a neurologist on call and they shouldn't have let him go if they said he should see one. There are other things that this dcf has done in the past and I have written about them quite a few times on here. My biggest concerns are dcb as well as the other children. Heres the story that always gets me and is one reason why I have some concerns on this issue: Dcb also has asthma. One day he was having a bad attack. I called mom, no answer, called dad, no answer, called moms work and they told me that dcm left earlier because dcb was in the hospital. He was here with me! Finally dcd calls back and tells me that dcm went home because they closed the school and that he will call her. Finally mom calls and I told her I had been trying to get ahold of her because of dcb's condition and the first thing she asked was what I told her work. She did come to get him and low and behold, she had to take him to the hospital.

I should have termed then. I have a whole slew of stories about this family and this is one reason why I feel the need to term and am nervous about keeping dcb with what may be this condition.

I remember that story. I would definitely term now- this DCM is not responsible and you are going to be the one liable if anything happens.

[Blackcat31]

I disagree with the statement in bold. Yes, the other children could be in danger.

I had a child here who had a seizure. One time thing but the fall out from the other kids (all under SA) having to observe that happening was horrible.

The other kids may not necessarily be in physical danger but it could potentially cause them some emotional stress psychologically.

I couldn't imagine trying to comprehend something like that at 2 or 3 yrs old. :confused:

[NightOwl]

We will have to agree to disagree on many of these points. Some of your points are valid, but some of mine are also.

If I would've known from the beginning that this is the same family where the mom couldn't be reached after an asthma attack, I may have formed a different opinion from the get go. But op didn't share that initially.

I suppose I am more confortable with it because I have lived it many times. I still wouldn't term over this specifically. Maybe with adding in the previous issues with the family, but not over epilepsy. I still feel that it's totally manageable.

Asthma can be life threatening, but we don't head for the hills when someone says my child has asthma. Maybe because it's much more common? Idk... The only thing I know for sure is that the vast majority of us readily accept children with asthma. And when other children witness their friend's asthma attack, it can be very scary for them. But do we term? No, we don't.

I know many of you have said you would term due to mom's incompetence, but several of you said you would term based on the epilepsy alone (or eluded to that in your posts). THAT I cannot agree with.

So, please keep us updated op. Good luck with your phone call! I'm sure we're all curious as to how it goes. Remember, don't tell her you're terming specifically because the child is epileptic. Tell her you feel like you cannot safely manage his condition while caring for the other children and you should be fine.

[Laurel]

Totally off topic, but I must say:

@ thegoodlife and laurel, and the others in this thread, I love that you guys can participate in a heated debate and not get ugly! Props to you! I love a good debate.

Thanks! People tell me that a lot even when it is politics or religion. I used to belong to a political forum and also often debated religion as the topic of school prayer, Christmas creches, etc. came up in current events.

I love a good debate too. I don't see this though as much of a debate because a provider has to go with their gut since they are taking responsibility for someone else's child's health. I do get your point about everyone being hit with this all of a sudden and all need time to adjust. It is tough.

Laurel

[TwinKristi]

There is no debate here. You can't tell another provider that seizures are just no big deal and just tough it out. That's really rediculous. This OP knows her capability and the family better than anyone trying to debate the issue.

I remember the family in the OP and I would NOT continue watching their children under these circumstances. Just like anything else relating to DCKs, when one child monopolizes most of your time and attention that means the other kids are going without. When this child ultimately has a seizure at childcare and OP has to call 911 and deal with it that IS traumatic for everyone. Neighbors, OP, DCKs, daycare families, etc. God forbid they're on a walk, on a field trip, at a holiday party... it's not something easy to deal with. Add to that the fact that if the child gets sick, his sleep is out of whack, he has a growth spurt and meds aren't as effective... you increase the likelihood of a breakthrough seizure even WITH meds. Anyone who had experience with epilepsy or seizures should know that it's really unpredictable.

I guess having had a seizure myself and being fully coherent through the first one and seeing my husband and my father's sheer panic and distress I would never want to put someone else through that. Paid or not! Seizures are just one thing I won't mess with. My child had breath holding spells at 1-3yrs and sometimes it looked like he was having a seizure and it scared the crap out of me. If another persons child had one in my care I don't think I would be the same after. Witnessing my mom's seizures, even though she was on meds, she has epilepsy and has had many many seizures, I just can't explain the helplessness of seeing it and then there's nothing you can do about it.

[NightOwl]

"There is no debate here. You can't tell another provider that seizures are just no big deal and just tough it out. That's really rediculous."

Well, so much for keeping it nice. I don't think what I said was ridiculous at all.

And I never said tough it out. I said op should consider educating herself, researching, etc. Not blindly tough it out. I would never in a million years recommend that.

And yes, it is a debate, if two opposing viewpoints are being expressed. You know, nicely, without placing the judgment of the other "side" being ridiculous because you don't agree with them.

[TwinKristi]

It's just that you won't give up. You keep coming back to defend your stance on how minor seizures are as if you'll change her or anyone else's mind. Some providers won't even deal with green snot, an Epi-pen or a dose of Tylenol but somehow seizures, major Rx medication and calling 911 is no big deal to those who have to be part of or witness this. Your opinion isn't what's ridiculous to me, it's that you view someone else's livelihood as a debatable subject. Melissa doesn't have to, by law or moral code, do anything to accommodate this family. She was looking for moral support and the vast majority said no way without an aide, paid training, etc. She's already said the family has lied about their whereabouts, their children's medical issues and didn't even have the time to sit down (let alone talk on the phone )and develop a plan of action in case of a medical emergency or see if she's on the same page. They just hand their provider a tube of gel to stick in their child's rectum if he has a seizure. Those are not parents who are "on top of things" and doesn't sound conducive to a small home childcare setting. I'm all up for a good debate but this just isn't even debatable, it's completely dependent upon what this provider wants to do in her care and if she doesn't feel she wants to put this weight on her shoulders (and I don't blame or disagree in the slightest) she shouldn't be guilted into thinking it's not as big of a deal as it is or all she has to do is x,y,z and it's ok. There are some providers who specialize in special needs care and are professionally trained and advertise as so. She is not. This is a topic very near and dear to me and I wouldn't wish it on anyone in the world.

[Cradle2crayons]

It's just that you won't give up. You keep coming back to defend your stance on how minor seizures are as if you'll change her or anyone else's mind. Some providers won't even deal with green snot, an Epi-pen or a dose of Tylenol but somehow seizures, major Rx medication and calling 911 is no big deal to those who have to be part of or witness this. Your opinion isn't what's ridiculous to me, it's that you view someone else's livelihood as a debatable subject. Melissa doesn't have to, by law or moral code, do anything to accommodate this family. She was looking for moral support and the vast majority said no way without an aide, paid training, etc. She's already said the family has lied about their whereabouts, their children's medical issues and didn't even have the time to sit down (let alone talk on the phone )and develop a plan of action in case of a medical emergency or see if she's on the same page. They just hand their provider a tube of gel to stick in their child's rectum if he has a seizure. Those are not parents who are "on top of things" and doesn't sound conducive to a small home childcare setting. I'm all up for a good debate but this just isn't even debatable, it's completely dependent upon what this provider wants to do in her care and if she doesn't feel she wants to put this weight on her shoulders (and I don't blame or disagree in the slightest) she shouldn't be guilted into thinking it's not as big of a deal as it is or all she has to do is x,y,z and it's ok. There are some providers who specialize in special needs care and are professionally trained and advertise as so. She is not. This is a topic very near and dear to me and I wouldn't wish it on anyone in the world.

Heck I do special needs care.. and I'm professionally trained... and I wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole... not because of the diagnosis (read: maybe a diagnosis)... but because of the MOM.

[NightOwl]

It's just that you won't give up. You keep coming back to defend your stance on how minor seizures are as if you'll change her or anyone else's mind. Some providers won't even deal with green snot, an Epi-pen or a dose of Tylenol but somehow seizures, major Rx medication and calling 911 is no big deal to those who have to be part of or witness this. Your opinion isn't what's ridiculous to me, it's that you view someone else's livelihood as a debatable subject. Melissa doesn't have to, by law or moral code, do anything to accommodate this family. She was looking for moral support and the vast majority said no way without an aide, paid training, etc. She's already said the family has lied about their whereabouts, their children's medical issues and didn't even have the time to sit down (let alone talk on the phone )and develop a plan of action in case of a medical emergency or see if she's on the same page. They just hand their provider a tube of gel to stick in their child's rectum if he has a seizure. Those are not parents who are "on top of things" and doesn't sound conducive to a small home childcare setting. I'm all up for a good debate but this just isn't even debatable, it's completely dependent upon what this provider wants to do in her care and if she doesn't feel she wants to put this weight on her shoulders (and I don't blame or disagree in the slightest) she shouldn't be guilted into thinking it's not as big of a deal as it is or all she has to do is x,y,z and it's ok. There are some providers who specialize in special needs care and are professionally trained and advertise as so. She is not. This is a topic very near and dear to me and I wouldn't wish it on anyone in the world.

Won't give up? Is there a point where I'm supposed to say you are right and I am wrong? This is a place for opinions and mine is just as valid as yours. You obviously did not read my last post about agreeing to disagree. I think that pretty much sums up that I know I'm not changing anyone's mind and am ready to drop it. And then you come in and call my views ridiculous and put words into my mouth. If you're going to disagree with me, do it respectfully and be informed on what I've already posted as the other ladies have.

And for the record I never tried "guilting" her into it. I offered my support, my phone number to walk her through it IF she decided to keep the child.

I am not debating her livelihood. Now THAT is a ridiculous statement. I would never advise someone to do something that I thought could damage their business. I have been debating whether or not home providers should or shouldn't consider caring for a child with epilepsy.

If you had read my earlier posts you would see that this topic is also very near and dear to me. The first seizure I ever saw was my brother's. It was one of the scariest things I've ever witnessed. I understood why people, a century ago, thought epileptic people were possessed by a demon. He looked like something straight out of the Exorcist. I have experienced all sorts of seizures between him and my former employee and my dcks that had them. I am not just blowing hot air here.

You wouldn't take an epileptic child. I would. The end. I don't know what else to say about it because we will never agree on this. But that's Ok. We don't have to agree. But we DO have to disagree in a professional, respectful way.

[Jazminsdaycare]

I had a child here who had a seizure. One time thing but the fall out from the other kids (all under SA) having to observe that happening was horrible.

The other kids may not necessarily be in physical danger but it could potentially cause them some emotional stress psychologically.

I couldn't imagine trying to comprehend something like that at 2 or 3 yrs old. :confused:

well, lets see I have had a child that is deaf and she screams pretty loud because she doesn't know how loud she is and my little kids learn that we love her anyway and I teach them that her ears don't work and that's why she screams and is sometimes scary I teach them sign language and they LOVE her

I also have taken care of a boy that had down syndrome and he would do some "scary" things but my kids loved him and learned how we are all different and special but worthy of acceptance

For a child with epilepsy I would explain that child sometimes might start shaking and maybe even fall on the floor because he has a little problem with part of his head but he's O.K. and it will be over soon and lets's just get some pillows around him until it's over( in a mild case)
Lesson? empathy, acceptance, love, and caring
Now I am not saying that OP should take the child but kids with disabilities or medical issues
deserve to have a chance in my opinion
My DD has epilepsy and she only had a couple seizures until we had it completely under control with meds and she never had a seizure again

Wednesday:
you sound like a very accepting and loving person
the kind of person I would love to know in real life
but it really does boil down to what Op is comfortable with
but I hope she keeps the child and works it out

[Unregistered]

I haven't had a child in my day care that has seizures, but my own daughter, Jessica (now 32) has Rett Syndrome and seizures come along with that. I've seen her have lots of seizures, and before having her, yes... seizures would have scared me silly! Hers aren't real bad, she sort of twitches and turns a bit blue because she doesn't breathe, but it never lasted for more than a minute. It was scary to watch her color change!!! Usually she was laying or sitting when she'd have them, only once she was standing and hit her head falling down and got a bump. She lives with other people now, since she was 16 and I believe she is still on Depakote, a red liquid medicine.

I can't believe they are using a suppository medicine for that child! That's weird! It depends on how severe his seizures are. The staring seizure you described is a Petit Mal, not a Grand Mal... which has convulsions. So too bad for this little guy to have that! Regardless of where or who he is with, if he's having the seizures you just make him comfortable and he will come out of it. If I have very many kids in my care I wouldn't want to try to deal with that just because I wouldn't be aware all the time what's going on with him. I always stayed by Jessica until her seizures were over. They don't "swallow" their tongue and all that stuff... my only fear with her was the breathing. But her medicine pretty much keeps her from having them from what her care takers say.