Why So Mean?

[Laurel]

OK....this is a vent and a concern. I even put a movie on for the kids so I could write this out.

I have a girl who is 5 and is just plain mean. I have had her about 6 months and I have not been successful in ridding of the mean. She has a mean expression on her face most of the day. If I take a picture of another kid I have to make sure she is not in the background because she will be mad I'm not taking a picture of her. There it is....the mean face ruining a picture of another kid.

Here's a scenario that happened this morning. First of all, my kids work activities either at a table or a rug. They need to ask if they can play before joining in. The other kid can say yes, no thank you, maybe later....etc. She LOVES to do this......

Girl is playing at a rug. A new boy asks if he can play with her

Girl: NO THANK YOU!!!!!! (mean voice)

She then looks at another boy and in an angelic voice......

Girl: Do you want to play with me?????

Now she has the right to say no to one kid and yes to another. This is fine with me......it's the WAY she does it. It's like she revels in it. Takes pure pleasure in being mean.....at least that what it seems like.

Today, outside....she took a toy away from another kid and gave it to another kid. She also had the same toy. I told her she needed to give hers to the boy she took a toy from. Reluctantly she did.....stomping to the corner of the playground and singing loudly....in opera.....about how she wants her toy back. Everyone ignored her. So, she came closer to us and acted like she was on the phone, complaining to her mom how everyone was mean to her. Everyone ignored her. Then an airplane went overhead and she yelled for the airplane to come down and rescue her. Again...everyone ignored. It's like they don't hear her any more.....she does this stuff all the time.

This morning she came in and the new boy ran up to her and told her hi. She screamed at him. I told the girl in front of her mom that there was no need for screaming and if he was in her face she could use her big voice and words to speak to him. The mom took sides with the girl and acted like the boy was all up into her face.......he wasn't.

I remember there was a thread about over praising......(I started one of them)....this girl is a praise and attention hound. If I say one kids picture is awesome....she will get mad if I don't say hers is awesome. If I pat a kids back she will insist I pat her back. This goes on constantly. Usually I will say.....what do you think of your picture? Other times when she's not demanding it, I will praise her for things that are well deserved....not for every little thing.

OK....there is so much more I could say. Sorry if there are typos....but I don't have time to proof read...gotta make lunch. Advice is welcome! Oh.....and some of those awesome hug icons would be great too!!!!!! LOL Thanks for letting me vent. I want the best for this girl and I want to help her become a more tolerable person to be around.

At 5 she is plenty old enough to understand what she is doing. I would have a talk with her. I'd tell her she is being mean and nasty and I am tired of it and it won't go on. I would give her a few specific examples of things she has done and tell her it won't be tolerated anymore, period. I'd make my 'lecture' as short as possible.

When she starts with the mean faces, I'd tell her to get that look off her face and go sit at the table where I would choose something for her to do. If she takes a toy from someone in a nasty way, I'd take it away from her and she wouldn't get it the rest of the day. Then she'd go back to the table.

Rinse and repeat. I wouldn't engage if she starts to argue. I would tell her to 'go to the table." Outside I'd have an area for her too maybe a picnic table.

She is old enough to know what she is doing and old enough to control herself.

Laurel

[NightOwl]

Kids who are aggressive or bossy often times feel out of control, so they are trying to control any little aspect of their lives that they can. Is she given choices? Are her parents the "children should be seen and not heard" type or the "my way or the highway" type? Every kid needs to feel they have some kind of control over their lives and it sounds like she had none, so she just takes it.

Also, on the flip side, if there are no boundaries at home and she is running the household, that can be a very scary thing for a kid. They NEED structure and predictability. It makes them feel safe knowing that someone else is running the show and has their back. If that's not there, they may lash out like little tyrants.

[SignMeUp]

Because I am working on a reply of TWO of my clients who had some of these issues and were later DX'ed with it.

Not a rush to judgement... there are techniques that will help even if not on the spectrum from the research on Aspergers.

I really don't worry about the labels... just the techniques that come out of the research of those labels. I hope that makes sense??

Frankly, I think we are all on the spectrum somewhere.

lovethis this! I have learned so much from my childcare kids' special ed teachers who were willing to share techniques and reasons with me. And I find that so much of what they've taught me also applies to "typical" children.

[Cat Herder]

https://www.myaspergerschild.com/2010/12/teaching-aspergers-students-32-tips-for.html

https://www.ourlifewithaspergers.blogspot.com/2011/10/preschool-evaluation-for-aspergers.html

https://www.empoweringparents.com/How-to-Stop-Aggressive-Behavior-in-Young-Children.php#

This should be a good start. happyface

Again, please ignore the labels and check out the techniques. When used in group care they seem to work well for meeting the needs of the ENTIRE group. All ages, on the "spectrum" or not... They help to seal the gap and get the kids on the same page.

As I said above, I have had two former clients that were diagnosed with Aspergers over the years. When their parents gave me the tips they were given I was able to see the value of those techniques for ALL kids in group care. Especially mixed age groups. They help level the decks. lovethis

I have been given tips for other special needs as well, but these seem to be the easiest, most effective, to implement in a home environment. (IMHO, of course. After trial and much past failure. ) I had a very wordy reply going on word, but this hits my point quicker... ::

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

The only real unpleasant term I've had to do was a child just like this. Nothing worked, the girl was just. plain. mean. Four years later the parents still will not look me in the eye.

Why, oh why, does this thread have 'asperger's' in the tag line???

I am an Aspie and while I am certainly extremely blunt if I am not working very hard at being more gentle I wouldn't say I was purposely mean acting either. Maybe I am and I just don't see it.

OP-I have had mean kids and never could make them more tolerable. Their parents were concerned, too, after I made a big deal out of it to a certain extent BUT there were also a lot of excuses and blame placed elsewhere.

[Cat Herder]

I took aspergers out of the tag line.

I was using the tag to find some links for techniques.

I am sorry.

[AmyKidsCo]

Kids who are aggressive or bossy often times feel out of control, so they are trying to control any little aspect of their lives that they can. Is she given choices? Are her parents the "children should be seen and not heard" type or the "my way or the highway" type? Every kid needs to feel they have some kind of control over their lives and it sounds like she had none, so she just takes it.

Also, on the flip side, if there are no boundaries at home and she is running the household, that can be a very scary thing for a kid. They NEED structure and predictability. It makes them feel safe knowing that someone else is running the show and has their back. If that's not there, they may lash out like little tyrants.

I was going to post that it sounds like a control/power issue. Try giving her LOTS of choices over little things you don't care about: Do you want 1 scoop of cereal or 2? (2 little scoops) Do you want a pink bowl or a yellow bowl? Do you want to wear your coat or carry it? Rinse, repeat ad nauseum.

I also agree that it could be that she doesn't have enough limits at home so she's pushing to see where the limits are with you so she'll feel safe and secure. The frustrating thing is that kids test limits under every circumstance - what happens if I do ____ on Monday? On Tuesday? In the morning? In the afternoon? In my pink shirt? Barefoot? Etc.

Hopefully a combination of giving her lots of control over small things and setting firm limits will help her get over her "meanies"

[drseuss]

I took aspergers out of the tag line.

I was using the tag to find some links for techniques.

I am sorry.

Sorry I jumped on you. I am over sensitive about AS and how others perceive it. I must have been extra edgy yesterday on top of that.

:hug::hug::hug:

[Cat Herder]

Sorry I jumped on you. I am over sensitive about AS and how others perceive it. I must have been extra edgy yesterday on top of that.

:hug::hug::hug:

No, being sensitive about that is fair. lovethis I am a total a$$ about safe sleep, allowing kids to torment each other and forcing kids to eat. We all have our hot buttons.

I think that sometimes people confuse the tags below with judgements about the post itself, not as the tool that leads to more information from previous posts like this.

[Blackcat31]

My son is an Aspie and his blunt manner of speaking was often mistaken as mean or aggressive-like behavior by others.

I think it was the lack of tone or appropriate response during communicating.

It wasn't meant as mean or aggressive but was often perceived that way by many so I can see where Asperger's and "mean" could be connected.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

My son is an Aspie and his blunt manner of speaking was often mistaken as mean or aggressive-like behavior by others.

I think it was the lack of tone or appropriate response during communicating.

It wasn't meant as mean or aggressive but was often perceived that way by many so I can see where Asperger's and "mean" could be connected.

I get told that I am blunt often. Now I am wondering if it is people meaning to say I am mean but not knowing how to do it and not "hurt" my feelings.
I never really took it as them possibly meaning that I am mean until this thread although I wish people would say, "That sounded mean!" so I could let them know that I did NOT intend it that way. I never intend to be mean.
Ah, self reflection. It is constant thing.

[Blackcat31]

I get told that I am blunt often. Now I am wondering if it is people meaning to say I am mean but not knowing how to do it and not "hurt" my feelings.
I never really took it as them possibly meaning that I am mean until this thread although I wish people would say, "That sounded mean!" so I could let them know that I did NOT intend it that way. I never intend to be mean.
Ah, self reflection. It is constant thing.

Yes, the continual cycle of self-reflection.

I think my son had issues because it hurt his feeling when others thought he was being mean (and hurting their feelings) and coupled with the fact he took everything others said very personally made social exchanges hard for him.

Now, it seems he prefaces almost everything he says with some form of
"Don't take this the wrong way..." or "I don't mean this rudely" or some version of a "pre-apology" just in case others misinterpret his intentions.

Makes me sad that he feels he has to "correct" himself before he even says anything.

[NightOwl]

I was going to post that it sounds like a control/power issue. Try giving her LOTS of choices over little things you don't care about: Do you want 1 scoop of cereal or 2? (2 little scoops) Do you want a pink bowl or a yellow bowl? Do you want to wear your coat or carry it? Rinse, repeat ad nauseum.

I also agree that it could be that she doesn't have enough limits at home so she's pushing to see where the limits are with you so she'll feel safe and secure. The frustrating thing is that kids test limits under every circumstance - what happens if I do ____ on Monday? On Tuesday? In the morning? In the afternoon? In my pink shirt? Barefoot? Etc.

Hopefully a combination of giving her lots of control over small things and setting firm limits will help her get over her "meanies"

We are definitely on the same page!

[daycare]

We are definitely on the same page!

I agree with this as well. I have a DCG now age 6 who has been in my care since she was 16 months old.

Lets just say in this case the apple does not fall far from the tree.

She needs to be in control of everything and everyone and when she is, she is mean. SHe needs to feel the sense of control all of the time.

I have given her other things to do like wash the little kids hands, help them put their shoes, jacket, wash the tables, hand out dishes. She is in control in a very positive way.

If she even thinks about being mean, I set her aside and have her read to herself.

Her mother probably never gives her options, so she is used to being told
do this do that
go to bed
clean your room
etc etc etc

[MissAnn]

Yesterday my girl said "I wish Fred (made up name for DH) was my teacher instead of YOU!!!!! Very snotty tone.

I couldn't help myself...

"I wish Sammy (her brother) was my student instead of YOU!!!!! I said it jokingly, but it still got the point across.

Ever since she has been saccharine sweet towards me.