Why So Mean?

[MissAnn]

OK....this is a vent and a concern. I even put a movie on for the kids so I could write this out.

I have a girl who is 5 and is just plain mean. I have had her about 6 months and I have not been successful in ridding of the mean. She has a mean expression on her face most of the day. If I take a picture of another kid I have to make sure she is not in the background because she will be mad I'm not taking a picture of her. There it is....the mean face ruining a picture of another kid.

Here's a scenario that happened this morning. First of all, my kids work activities either at a table or a rug. They need to ask if they can play before joining in. The other kid can say yes, no thank you, maybe later....etc. She LOVES to do this......

Girl is playing at a rug. A new boy asks if he can play with her

Girl: NO THANK YOU!!!!!! (mean voice)

She then looks at another boy and in an angelic voice......

Girl: Do you want to play with me?????

Now she has the right to say no to one kid and yes to another. This is fine with me......it's the WAY she does it. It's like she revels in it. Takes pure pleasure in being mean.....at least that what it seems like.

Today, outside....she took a toy away from another kid and gave it to another kid. She also had the same toy. I told her she needed to give hers to the boy she took a toy from. Reluctantly she did.....stomping to the corner of the playground and singing loudly....in opera.....about how she wants her toy back. Everyone ignored her. So, she came closer to us and acted like she was on the phone, complaining to her mom how everyone was mean to her. Everyone ignored her. Then an airplane went overhead and she yelled for the airplane to come down and rescue her. Again...everyone ignored. It's like they don't hear her any more.....she does this stuff all the time.

This morning she came in and the new boy ran up to her and told her hi. She screamed at him. I told the girl in front of her mom that there was no need for screaming and if he was in her face she could use her big voice and words to speak to him. The mom took sides with the girl and acted like the boy was all up into her face.......he wasn't.

I remember there was a thread about over praising......(I started one of them)....this girl is a praise and attention hound. If I say one kids picture is awesome....she will get mad if I don't say hers is awesome. If I pat a kids back she will insist I pat her back. This goes on constantly. Usually I will say.....what do you think of your picture? Other times when she's not demanding it, I will praise her for things that are well deserved....not for every little thing.

OK....there is so much more I could say. Sorry if there are typos....but I don't have time to proof read...gotta make lunch. Advice is welcome! Oh.....and some of those awesome hug icons would be great too!!!!!! LOL Thanks for letting me vent. I want the best for this girl and I want to help her become a more tolerable person to be around.

[drseuss]

The only real unpleasant term I've had to do was a child just like this. Nothing worked, the girl was just. plain. mean. Four years later the parents still will not look me in the eye.

Why, oh why, does this thread have 'asperger's' in the tag line???

[Cat Herder]

Why, oh why, does this thread have 'asperger's' in the tag line???

Because I am working on a reply of TWO of my clients who had some of these issues and were later DX'ed with it.

Not a rush to judgement... there are techniques that will help even if not on the spectrum from the research on Aspergers.

I really don't worry about the labels... just the techniques that come out of the research of those labels. I hope that makes sense??

Frankly, I think we are all on the spectrum somewhere.

[drseuss]

Because I am working on a reply of TWO of my clients who had some of these issues and were later DX'ed with it.

Not a rush to judgement... there are techniques that will help even if not on the spectrum from the research on this.

Ok, just wondering... In my years of experience with it, I have never known AS and mean or aggressive behavior to go hand in hand. I get a little on the defensive about it.

[CedarCreek]

That's rough! She's got a bit of a drama queen problem as well, doesn't she?

Honestly, it sounds like you're doing fine ignoring the attempt at drama and correcting the behavior. The problem is probably Mom reinforcing this behavior at home.

Has Mom ever brought up that she complains about everyone "being mean" to her?

[Thriftylady]

It is really hard when a mother reinforces the bad behavior. When mom took her side about the screaming I would have said something like "but in my home we don't treat others like that, it's a rule".

[Cat Herder]

Ok, just wondering... In my years of experience with it, I have never known AS and mean or aggressive behavior to go hand in hand. I get a little on the defensive about it.

I am with you. I have to look up some links to verify what I see in the post.. I don't have time for big replies, now.. I hoped BC, Nan or Jen would see it and read my mind... They often do. lovethis

[MissAnn]

Because I am working on a reply of TWO of my clients who had some of these issues and were later DX'ed with it.

Not a rush to judgement... there are techniques that will help even if not on the spectrum from the research on Aspergers.

I really don't worry about the labels... just the techniques that come out of the research of those labels. I hope that makes sense??

Frankly, I think we are all on the spectrum somewhere.

Makes sense to me. She does not seem at all like she has aspergers but I understand techniques used for aspergers could help this one. HOPE!

[MissAnn]

That's rough! She's got a bit of a drama queen problem as well, doesn't she?

Honestly, it sounds like you're doing fine ignoring the attempt at drama and correcting the behavior. The problem is probably Mom reinforcing this behavior at home.

Has Mom ever brought up that she complains about everyone "being mean" to her?

Yes.....in fact I was told by her previous daycare that they would have warned me about her...had they known she was coming here.

The parents are aware she is a bit difficult....I just don't think they understand their part in it. She told her parents a kid was "bullying" her at her previous place. They took it seriously and was not happy when the daycare didn't take action against the kid. Now I don't know all the details...but no kid in their right mind would bully this girl. Parents are hoodwinked.

[Play Care]

I had a mean girl in my day care. She was also my neighbors child

In my case she was older, so much sneakier about it - I'm still finding out just how mean and nasty she could be...The parents think the sun shines out of her bottom

IME, you will not be able to do anything with this girl, and it will get worse.

[MissAnn]

It is really hard when a mother reinforces the bad behavior. When mom took her side about the screaming I would have said something like "but in my home we don't treat others like that, it's a rule".

I told her there have been other instances like this and I'm trying to teach her the appropriate way to speak her feelings. Mom seemed like she had a light bulb moment....but that won't last long. I am trying to teach mom as much as kid.

[deliberateliterate]

I had a mean girl in my day care. She was also my neighbors child

In my case she was older, so much sneakier about it - I'm still finding out just how mean and nasty she could be...The parents think the sun shines out of her bottom

IME, you will not be able to do anything with this girl, and it will get worse.

Are you me?? Mine is now occasional, thank god.

[sugar buzz]

It sounds like an old-fashioned case of spoiled-rotten-itis to me. (Does anyone remember Mrs. Piggle Wiggle?) Her ability to compose songs, photo-bomb, and make herself the victim shows some master manipulation skills--a budding little narcissist. I watched a SA like this, who actually asked me, "HOW MUCH IS MY MOM PAYING YOU?!!!!" (Not enough, kid....) It's sort of like a daily exorcism because they don't understand why their well-played bad behavior isn't being rewarded. I gritted my teeth and stayed consistent, reminding her that those types of behavior weren't okay HERE. I eventually earned her respect, and underneath the facade was a pretty cool little girl, who just had WAY TOO MUCH power at home. :hug::hug::hug:

[MissAnn]

There HAS been SOME progress. So that's good. On her second day a mom brought in a birthday present for another kid. This girl was 4 1/2 at the time. She pitched a holy fit. I've never seen one like that here! I'm talking kicking feet and screaming at the mom....demanding where her present is!!!! The mom was horrified and I told her to not worry, this is a life lesson. I then asked the child if today is her birthday and she said no. So I said, you will get presents on your birthday.

Also, when she was new.....a boy was playing in the outdoor kitchen. He was standing on a stood. This girl ran from clear across the playground and pushed the boy off the stool. He wasn't hurt but easily could have been. A piece of furniture was in front of him and also in back of him. When I asked the girl why she did that.....she replied that she wanted the bowl he had. She did that sort of thing a lot. Grab things from kids and say.....I wanted it. I never once let her get by with it. Writing this out makes me feel a little better. I am able to notice the things that have changed for the better. She doesn't grab toys from other kids very often any more.

[NeedaVaca]

It sounds like an old-fashioned case of spoiled-rotten-itis to me. (Does anyone remember Mrs. Piggle Wiggle?) Her ability to compose songs, photo-bomb, and make herself the victim shows some master manipulation skills--a budding little narcissist. I watched a SA like this, who actually asked me, "HOW MUCH IS MY MOM PAYING YOU?!!!!" (Not enough, kid....) It's sort of like a daily exorcism because they don't understand why their well-played bad behavior isn't being rewarded. I gritted my teeth and stayed consistent, reminding her that those types of behavior weren't okay HERE. I eventually earned her respect, and underneath the facade was a pretty cool little girl, who just had WAY TOO MUCH power at home. :hug::hug::hug:

I love Mrs. Piggle Wiggle, I still have copies of all the books!