Would You Turn Unlicensed Providers In?

[KiddieCahoots]

In my area it is, because this would be reported as child abuse. In my area, you don't have to licensed for a certain amount of children. Even if it was a center that licensed, it's CPS/a social worker going. Honestly, it is petty because the root of it money. If they were running these "illegal" daycares for free, would you report them? I hope everyone who's a legal eagle, knows all their laws and knows sometimes laws can contradict other laws. I don't condone doing things that are illegal, you aren't a cop. If you're reporting people willy nilly, I hope your behind is always covered. I once had a friend who very upstanding and lived in an apartment. New obnoxious neighbor came in. They got into an argument about something. New neighbor was a lawyer and had lots of lawyer coworkers and friends and government official friends. It eventually ended with my friend getting evicted and having police reports in their name. I'm just saying it's easy to get someone someone for not doting their Is, but just make sure you're always crossing your Ts.

That's just it, we work very hard to comply with the laws by crossing our T's and dotting our I's. Why should an illegally run childcare not have to abide by the same regulations, especially if it boils down to the safety of children? Imh, do you think we are having a blast trying to jump through all the hoops they set for us to maintain our legal establishments?

Your getting into the nitty gritty of politics on this, and I agree with you that politics stink! But, you could do that on any subject and we'd be here all day, and then some discussing it.

Yes....your right about government officials and their friends, it comes down to who you know. I'm sure we could all share stories on this too. It doesn't mean we should throw in the towel and all become illegal, or turn our heads to the ones that are.

[Blackcat31]

Yes, I'm providing illegal child care. *Eyeroll* You know, that's the sort of thing people would admit online. *Eyeroll* I also like how since you don't have any valid counterpoints, you're not accusing me of things. What's next? Since this is online, I guess I'm going to either be called a Nazi or compared to Hitler. Nice behavior, moderator.

I'm not arguing anything so I fail to see why I would need valid counterpoints.

I am genuinely asking you a question.

There was no malice, no alterior motives or hidden agendas...I am curious as to why you feel so strongly about protecting illegal child care providers.

However, since you have no valid reply you instead choose to focus on the "rules" you feel I am suppose to adhere to as a moderator. ?? :confused:

So rules apply when they suit you but not other times?

I love your compassion.

Thanks, I love my compassion too.

[Play Care]

Call me paranoid but...
This post comes out and I get a message on my FB page this morning:
"Just wondering, are you certified by the state? Do you have a children/teacher ratio?.

I can't help but wonder if I was targeted.

No i am not licensed, in PA I can have up to 4 before needing one. I don't plan on having more then that anyway. I'm lucky to just get one! . So my "child/teacher" ratio is 4:1.

THIS is why I didn't want to call myself a daycare.....

If you are LEGALLY unlicensed you have nothing to fear:confused: I would message back something like "per PA law only those with more than 4 children need to have a license. As I never go over this number I do not hold a license. - LEGALLY." I'd then go on to say what you do have (current first aid/CPR, any degrees or certifications, etc) what's the worst that can happen? Someone from the office of day care comes out to check and sees that you operate legally unlicensed?:confused:

I do not understand why every time this topic comes up, LEGALLY unlicensed providers get upset. If you're legal, then your legal...

[spinnymarie]

Just as when you fear HORROR stories of the abuse some children are going through, pat yourself on the shoulder for reporting a person who had one kid. Do I think people should be doing illegal care? No, but there's a difference between that and real child abuse. I can get behind reporting someone with a lot of children or who is hurting them in some fashion, but not someone who has 2 or 3 kids and just not licensed.

The only real way to know that a provider is doing right by the children and NOT hurting them in some way is if the provider is licensed as required by their state.

This could just as easily go down as someone reporting an illegal provider who had 2 or 3 kids and is abusing them. Or reporting an illegal provider who leaves children in the home alone. Or an illegal provider caring for 40 kids each day in a tiny house and children are getting hurt. And I have read articles on each of these real-life scenarios in illegal provider's homes.

Should we berate providers that call Child Protection for cases that end up being closed? In truth, that was technically a 'waste of time' for that Child Protection worker, if the claim did not end in taking the child out of the home or a remediation plan for the family. And yet, that same agency REQUIRES us to call on *any* suspicion.

It is always advisable to call CPS any time you are suspicious of children not being treated well, and that includes illegal providers.

[Unregistered]

I'm not sure what you are trying to get at? Is an illegal provider going to what? Try to sue someone they *think* turned them in? How would that conversation even go? "Yes your honor, I knew I was breaking the law, but she toooooold on me!" The illegal would have to prove the provider was the one who turned them in - and I'm fairly sure it's a confidential process. Since most illegals *advertise* they wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court.

Frankly I don't turn in illegals as I feel OCFS (not CPS in my state, BTW) should do their own darn job. Thankfully the illegals make it easy by posting on CL, Facebook, etc.

There are so many laws. Do you know them all? What if you accidentally broke one? Or did something to comply with one law that broke another? I'm just according to the logic everyone is using here, if you did (no one here would because you all know every law on Earth ) you're guilty until proven innocent. As I said before, with anything (not just child care), make sure you're doting your is and crossing your ts, because maybe one day someone will return your favor. As I said, my friend got into a fight with an annoying neighbor (not about daycare) and neighbor turned out to be a lawyer. Every little pinky toe my friend got out of line, there was legal trouble.

http://www.menshealth.com/best-life/crimes Look at this. Most of these I knew, but two shocked me. Did you know all of these things were illegal? I'm just saying, it's all fun and games to call the authorities on people. If you're even in the hot seat don't feel bad.

[Blackcat31]

Call me paranoid but...
This post comes out and I get a message on my FB page this morning:
"Just wondering, are you certified by the state? Do you have a children/teacher ratio?.

I can't help but wonder if I was targeted.

No i am not licensed, in PA I can have up to 4 before needing one (4:1). I don't plan on having more then that anyway. I'm lucky to just get one! .

THIS is why I didn't want to call myself a daycare.....
But i'll be damned, I'm not changing my stuff over again after all that work. Nope.

In any advertising, I include my license number.

It is not required but I choose to do it.

If I were you, I would just add a clause (maybe a footer to your ads) stating you are a LEGALLY unlicensed provider that adheres to all the rules and regulations of your state in accordance to ratios and etc.

That would cover you if anyone is wondering.

[MsLisa]

If you are LEGALLY unlicensed you have nothing to fear:confused: I would message back something like "per PA law only those with more than 4 children need to have a license. As I never go over this number I do not hold a license. - LEGALLY." I'd then go on to say what you do have (current first aid/CPR, any degrees or certifications, etc) what's the worst that can happen? Someone from the office of day care comes out to check and sees that you operate legally unlicensed?:confused:

I do not understand why every time this topic comes up, LEGALLY unlicensed providers get upset. If you're legal, then your legal...

Thank you for clarifying that for me. I didn't know there was such thing as legally unlicensed, so please forgive me.
I was merely caught off guard by the peculiarity of the post here & then receiving a message in the same nature. I am still relatively semi-new to this, and as these ladies know, I don't want to step on the toes of the pros.

[permanentvacation]

Guest,


You're illegal aren't you.

[Unregistered]

Guest,


You're illegal aren't you.

I'm also a Nazi officer.

[Unregistered]

Guest,


You're illegal aren't you.

It's very sad, I'm accused of breaking the law because I'm not petty and truly care about the welfare of child (not solely money).

[MrsSteinel'sHouse]

I agree but at the same time, if they aren't hiding anything...why not just get a license (or do things legally)..kwim?

In Ohio now they only want you licensed if you are taking state funded children. I was told that they didn't want to license you otherwise. That is their only reason for licensing. Pissed me off. So your child only deserves a licensed provider if they are on state assistance! grrr

[daycare]

A Friday feeding occurred!! Lol

I think the thing that bothers me is when people set up illegally and the ones with no real intent to do anything but make some fast money are what do me in.

They don't create safe situations/environments for the children and then when things go south "we" daycare providers that spend countless hours in trainings, reinvest in the health and safety of these children take the hit for it.

We see it in the media all the time.

Regardless of how it's done if it's illegal then yes you should be turned in.

[Heidi]

There are so many laws. Do you know them all? What if you accidentally broke one? Or did something to comply with one law that broke another? I'm just according to the logic everyone is using here, if you did (no one here would because you all know every law on Earth ) you're guilty until proven innocent. As I said before, with anything (not just child care), make sure you're doting your is and crossing your ts, because maybe one day someone will return your favor. As I said, my friend got into a fight with an annoying neighbor (not about daycare) and neighbor turned out to be a lawyer. Every little pinky toe my friend got out of line, there was legal trouble.


http://www.menshealth.com/best-life/crimes Look at this. Most of these I knew, but two shocked me. Did you know all of these things were illegal? I'm just saying, it's all fun and games to call the authorities on people. If you're even in the hot seat don't feel bad.

Apples and oranges...

You're justifying KNOWINGLY breaking the law. Do we all know every law? Nope. If we accidentally break one and get caught, we'll deal with the consequences.

Those of us who are licensed occasionally get non-compliance statements. Maybe we missed a piece of paperwork, or our SA kid left an outlet plug out. We deal with the consequences. We're human beings, and in my state, at least, there are over 750 licensing rules. That's a lot!

The big difference, you KNOW that you are blatantly breaking the law. You can't claim "oops!". You're doing it maliciously, and you are saying "damn the consequences and everyone else!" Does that mean you're providing "bad" care? I don't know, honestly. Do I think you SHOULD need a license for caring for 1 unrelated child? Nope. But, in your state, apparently enough people thought you should. So, either don't do it, or get a license. If you don't like the rules, get them changed. Plead your case to your legislators. Rally on the capitol. Whatever. Just don't say "it's okay, because I don't agree with the law".

Lastly, if anything ever happens to a child in your care, and you are running illegally, you homeowners or renters insurance will NOT cover you or help you in any way. If you are accused of abuse, you are not protected. If a child falls and gets hurt, you are not protected. So, when you're cashing you check every week, you might want to consider what it could cost your family in the long run. Maybe it's worth the trouble of getting regulated after all.

[MrsSteinel'sHouse]

Yes, I'm providing illegal child care. *Eyeroll* You know, that's the sort of thing people would admit online. *Eyeroll* I also like how since you don't have any valid counterpoints, you're not accusing me of things. What's next? Since this is online, I guess I'm going to either be called a Nazi or compared to Hitler. Nice behavior, moderator.

I love your compassion.

This is not about compassion, this is about legal and illegal child care.

I personally feel that all states should have a minimum of registration for anyone providing childcare in their home to any more than 1 child. Just basic they have had CPR, first aid and the basic childcare course. I feel that if your taking money as a provider you should at least have to register.

[Play Care]

Apples and oranges...

You're justifying KNOWINGLY breaking the law. Do we all know every law? Nope. If we accidentally break one and get caught, we'll deal with the consequences.

Those of us who are licensed occasionally get non-compliance statements. Maybe we missed a piece of paperwork, or our SA kid left an outlet plug out. We deal with the consequences. We're human beings, and in my state, at least, there are over 750 licensing rules. That's a lot!

The big difference, you KNOW that you are blatantly breaking the law. You can't claim "oops!". You're doing it maliciously, and you are saying "damn the consequences and everyone else!" Does that mean you're providing "bad" care? I don't know, honestly. Do I think you SHOULD need a license for caring for 1 unrelated child? Nope. But, in your state, apparently enough people thought you should. So, either don't do it, or get a license. If you don't like the rules, get them changed. Plead your case to your legislators. Rally on the capitol. Whatever. Just don't say "it's okay, because I don't agree with the law".

Lastly, if anything ever happens to a child in your care, and you are running illegally, you homeowners or renters insurance will NOT cover you or help you in any way. If you are accused of abuse, you are not protected. If a child falls and gets hurt, you are not protected. So, when you're cashing you check every week, you might want to consider what it could cost your family in the long run. Maybe it's worth the trouble of getting regulated after all.

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