Sensitive Issue

[Lucy]

Sure you can. Come up with a solution that guarantees this providers three year old son isn't going to see this four year old naked with her legs apart and her hands on her privates.

You are a twenty year vet. You CAN. Guaranteed solution

Totally wasn't talking about not being able to solve the problem.
I have all school-agers.
That was me putting my backspace key to work...................

I was trying not to engage. I'll just say two words and I'm done. Heat Stroke.

[nannyde]

Totally wasn't talking about not being able to solve the problem.
I have all school-agers.
That was me putting my backspace key to work...................

I was trying not to engage. I'll just say two words and I'm done. Heat Stroke.

Ok I will try again. You come behind me once again .... as you do everywhere I have original content and dismiss it and accuse me of abuse. You don't say the word abuse but any fool can see the implication.

You dismiss me but what I don't see is a twenty year veterans original concepts that are SOLUTIONS. Solutions that are bravely set forth for one and all to nod or nay.

You got your chance to put forth instead of put down.

Show me new. Show me creativity. Show me years of experience problem solving that works.

It's easy to tag along and pile on.

[Lucy]

No thank you.

[coolconfidentme]

At the very least you should email licensing to document your concern & ask for direction. It could be noting, but I always error on the side of the child. Sometimes we are their only voice.

[Unregistered]

Do you know in this specific situation because I sent her to the dr. & he is aware of it, doesn't he have to document it? If he felt it was abuse, it would be reported right? That's a big part of what's throwing me off. I sent her to a dr via her mother saying she had to be seen before she could return to care. If the dr. didn't feel it was abuse, but just a child over indulging herself, and having spent a little time with the family I've never seen anything to indicate abuse, other than the obvious act of her being way more into this than a 4 y.o. should, how can I make that call? I think I'm just a little skeptical to call CPS over something like this unless I'm pretty sure because I called and reported one other time when I was almost positive a child was being abused and it ended badly for me with nothing being done for the child. Two brothers came in both having burn marks on their arms and one of them on a leg. Looked like cigarette burns. I called. They investigated, but mom said the kids ran into the cigarettes and it was dropped. Of course they figured out who called and you can imagine how that ended for me. And now I wonder who is advocating for those boys? If I was convinced she was being abused, I would call immediately regardless of what that meant for me. But I don't see any proof of that. The only suspicious thing I see is that she has carried this much farther than the normal child. I do agree with Nannyde that this has to stop now. It's not to be seen by my son or any other child again. Period. End of story. If she can't stop herself then I will have to term because its not healthy for the other children. But as far as reporting it, I sent her to the dr and he didn't think it was abuse. Unless mom is lying. In which case I'm sure a report has already been fiied.

[coolconfidentme]

Do you know in this specific situation because I sent her to the dr. & he is aware of it, doesn't he have to document it? If he felt it was abuse, it would be reported right? That's a big part of what's throwing me off. I sent her to a dr via her mother saying she had to be seen before she could return to care. If the dr. didn't feel it was abuse, but just a child over indulging herself, and having spent a little time with the family I've never seen anything to indicate abuse, other than the obvious act of her being way more into this than a 4 y.o. should, how can I make that call? I think I'm just a little skeptical to call CPS over something like this unless I'm pretty sure because I called and reported one other time when I was almost positive a child was being abused and it ended badly for me with nothing being done for the child. Two brothers came in both having burn marks on their arms and one of them on a leg. Looked like cigarette burns. I called. They investigated, but mom said the kids ran into the cigarettes and it was dropped. Of course they figured out who called and you can imagine how that ended for me. And now I wonder who is advocating for those boys? If I was convinced she was being abused, I would call immediately regardless of what that meant for me. But I don't see any proof of that. The only suspicious thing I see is that she has carried this much farther than the normal child. I do agree with Nannyde that this has to stop now. It's not to be seen by my son or any other child again. Period. End of story. If she can't stop herself then I will have to term because its not healthy for the other children. But as far as reporting it, I sent her to the dr and he didn't think it was abuse. Unless mom is lying. In which case I'm sure a report has already been fiied.

I'm confused. You sent her to the doctor or the parent took her? Do you have the note from the doctor making that statement? I would still email licensing to document it & ask for guidance. Let them make the decision.

[MrsSteinel'sHouse]

I am the OP. I was too gentle about it at first because I was worried about shaming the child, but I have since stepped it up to a definite no and she still persists. Its been a definite no for at least a week now.(I said no, don't do that all along, but I just wasn't as adamant about it until last week.)
Yesterday when my son saw her doing it and asked me about it was kind of the end of the line for me. I told mom she has to have tight fitting shorts under all of her dresses and it needs to be addressed. Mom feels it is "normal." I love the suggestion of saying "No that's not allowed at daycare," because it doesn't undermine mom but says it is not allowed here under any circumstances. Nannyde has a very good point about other parents being alarmed because I was very upset that it happened in front of my son and I'm the provider. I can only imagine how I would have felt if my son witnessed that while in someone else's care. This child does have sensory issues. That could be playing into this, but either way I truly feel if the adult in charge tells you to stop a behavior, at 4 y.o. you should have enough self control to stop.
I know that its considered normal for a child to explore this region of their body, but this is not a casual let me see what's there. I mean she completely spreads herself. Her parents recently divorced so maybe she is acting out because of that? Idk. Today she came in more appropriate clothing and she only tried it once and it was over the clothes. All I had to do was look at her and she stopped immediately. I'm hoping talking to mom worked. I hate to report it if nothing is going on, but for her sake I don't want to be wrong either. I don't believe she's being abused or I would call in a second, but I will definitely be documenting very carefully for my records and if it continues I will call. Better safe than sorry.

recently divorced.. does mom have a new boyfriend? is there a male in her life that wasn't there before? or does dad now have her alone? How long have you had the child? When did the behavior start? Document, document, document... but, if it continues or if something seems off, please call CPS. You are a mandated reporter and this is a red flag. Mom says she took her to the doctor- did they check for a yeast infection? Parasites? UTI?

[Unregistered]

recently divorced.. does mom have a new boyfriend? is there a male in her life that wasn't there before? or does dad now have her alone? How long have you had the child? When did the behavior start? Document, document, document... but, if it continues or if something seems off, please call CPS. You are a mandated reporter and this is a red flag. Mom says she took her to the doctor- did they check for a yeast infection? Parasites? UTI?

No new males around to my knowledge. Child does have visitation with dad. Dr. checked for uti & yeast i believe. Even sent a sample away for testing. Said there was no cause for concern, but that she had just irritated herself. I called mom & told her to pick dcg up & have her seen by dr. before returning her to care. Mom was the one who actually took her. I am documenting everything. I have had this child for 2 years. I noticed occasional exploring last summer when changing a diaper or when she was in bed. She would take her diaper off and try to smear poop. She had several therapists at the time and when I discussed my concern over it with them they all agreed it was because of the sensory issues. It's never been a regular occurrence or something she has done in front of others until about 3-4 weeks ago. All of a sudden it is happening wherever she is and multiple times a day.

[MrsSteinel'sHouse]

That would be what would worry me- suddenly this extreme behavior. Does she still see therapists?

[NightOwl]

Omg... I love it when nannyde gets fired up.
I'm completely with you on this one. The backwards jammies may be odd for a child this age, but YOU GOTTA DO WHAT YOU GOTTA DO. If the op isn't comfortable with this, then term. I'm WAY more uncomfortable with open masturbation than I am with backwards jammies.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

No new males around to my knowledge. Child does have visitation with dad. Dr. checked for uti & yeast i believe. Even sent a sample away for testing. Said there was no cause for concern, but that she had just irritated herself. I called mom & told her to pick dcg up & have her seen by dr. before returning her to care. Mom was the one who actually took her. I am documenting everything. I have had this child for 2 years. I noticed occasional exploring last summer when changing a diaper or when she was in bed. She would take her diaper off and try to smear poop. She had several therapists at the time and when I discussed my concern over it with them they all agreed it was because of the sensory issues. It's never been a regular occurrence or something she has done in front of others until about 3-4 weeks ago. All of a sudden it is happening wherever she is and multiple times a day.

I am sorry but SOMETHING is going on. Either something is going on at Dad's house, Mom has a new boyfriend that has had alone time access to the child, a male relative has been left alone with the child, OR something has changed in her home life (not sexually related) that has amped up her coping mechanism. Either way, I would be having a SERIOUS sit down conversation with Mom and directly addressing these things because this amount of sexual exploring ALL OF A SUDDEN is certainly not normal.

[Blackcat31]

OP ~ I PM'ed you.

[mountainside13]

This thread makes me want to bang the keyboard! It gets me too fired up! Nannyde 100%!

[nannyde]

Omg... I love it when nannyde gets fired up.
I'm completely with you on this one. The backwards jammies may be odd for a child this age, but YOU GOTTA DO WHAT YOU GOTTA DO. If the op isn't comfortable with this, then term. I'm WAY more uncomfortable with open masturbation than I am with backwards jammies.

I think the tighter clothes is definitely worth a try but if the bottom has a zipper and snap she has access. Tight or not.

With backwards jammies it would be darn near impossible for her to get around them. In the time it took for her to try it would be caught.

If she isn't being abused and she gets a big break from access she may settle down and expend her energies elsewhere.. anywhere else would be a step in the right direction.

Get her a size five Frozen pair and install per my direction. Help her with undoing and redoing for potty and then give it time. I would talk to mom about NO MORE do it in private. That's not working. Just no access all the time. Jammied at home too would be great.

I know there is a product called unionsuits that MAY come that small. Same concept but turn backwards. May get those without feet.

Heck I would spring for identical Frozen or other cool character jams for the entire crew if that's what it took. The least of my worries is a dunce cap. That's easily solved. The fixation ... not so much

[KiddieCahoots]

Do you know in this specific situation because I sent her to the dr. & he is aware of it, doesn't he have to document it? If he felt it was abuse, it would be reported right? That's a big part of what's throwing me off. I sent her to a dr via her mother saying she had to be seen before she could return to care. If the dr. didn't feel it was abuse, but just a child over indulging herself, and having spent a little time with the family I've never seen anything to indicate abuse, other than the obvious act of her being way more into this than a 4 y.o. should, how can I make that call? I think I'm just a little skeptical to call CPS over something like this unless I'm pretty sure because I called and reported one other time when I was almost positive a child was being abused and it ended badly for me with nothing being done for the child. Two brothers came in both having burn marks on their arms and one of them on a leg. Looked like cigarette burns. I called. They investigated, but mom said the kids ran into the cigarettes and it was dropped. Of course they figured out who called and you can imagine how that ended for me. And now I wonder who is advocating for those boys? If I was convinced she was being abused, I would call immediately regardless of what that meant for me. But I don't see any proof of that. The only suspicious thing I see is that she has carried this much farther than the normal child. I do agree with Nannyde that this has to stop now. It's not to be seen by my son or any other child again. Period. End of story. If she can't stop herself then I will have to term because its not healthy for the other children. But as far as reporting it, I sent her to the dr and he didn't think it was abuse. Unless mom is lying. In which case I'm sure a report has already been fiied.

Doctor's don't always get the whole picture from parents. Kids do get uti's, but if these parents are trying to act like their child is normal (like you had pp), then why would they admit to the doctor that she's doing this to herself?

It would be the collected reports together that would be helpful, or build a case for the child, the doctor's and yours.

If you don't seem to think a call to CPS is warranted, then like mentioned above, why not call your licensor? At least you can talk to them about this, they can help you determine if further action if required, and you can also clear your name at the same time from any implications.