How Much Time Do You Spend Actively Playing...

[marniewon]

That's the thing - I don't think it's my job to be entertainment for the kids. Do I love reading to them, feeding them, and caring for them? Yes. Do I want to sit on the floor and speak in a cartoon voice and dance toy farm animals around all day long? NO! I've been feeling some guilt over this - like if I'm NOT doing that, I'm not doing a good job or doing what the parents expect me to do. Nannyde is right, though - for two-fifty an hour, can parents really expect me to do that?

That's the kicker - yes, parents can, and DO! expect us to play with their children and a whole lot more for very little money!! After reading this thread, I got to thinking of my own childhood (and my own children, for that matter). No adults ever played with me. Read to me, care for me, feed me, etc? Yep. But get down on the floor with me? No way. And I didn't do that with my own kids, well, maybe once in a great while! I love my kids and I do stuff with them all the time (and my parents with me also) but no, no one was down playing on the floor with me or my kids. I do have one child in my care who expects me to play with him, constantly. He has his parents and his 17yo sister and grandma around him. They play with him. He is very socially behind when it comes to playing with other children, he expects me to entertain him. I don't. he is my lowest paying child, and the one who expects the most out of me (special snacks/meals at odd times, playing constantly, etc). I do believe parents expect us to play with their little darlings, but I'm with Nannyde - you want me to be a nanny, pay me at least minimum wage and I'll entertain and amuse your child all day long

Just an aside....have you ever heard the phrase that parents say - "that's why I had more than one child"? Pretty sure it was in answer to the question - will you play with me? LOL

[DancingQueen]

Very little - they play with eachother more than they play with me.

[kidkair]

I teach them. I don't play with them. They may think otherwise but when I'm doing things with them it's to teach them something. Such as doing the crab walk. They think I'm playing with them where I think I'm teaching them a new skill. I let them play together most of the time and teach intermittently or during our curriculum time. I have a very active curriculum time so that everyone is up on their feet most of the time. I also have gotten into having one on one time with each child in our craft area. We do reading words and number recognition one on one and them just talk or color for a little bit before it's the next kid's turn. I do this so that they each get time with me and so that they learn how to use the craft area nicely. When I let them have open access to it the room became a mess that none of them wanted to clean up. I hope someday to give them open access again once they all understand how to clean up after themselves and use the materials appropriately rather than purposely making a mess. I wish I had a room that I didn't have to walk through daily. If I did then I could just let them have a messy room with tons of craft stuff everywhere.

[QualiTcare]

I asked my Dad one day (he's seventy) if he has a single childhood memory of an adult playing with him as a child. He said not a one. I asked his sister that... she is two years older than him... She said not one.

I don't know WHY this generation of children are so unique to the thousands of years we humans have been raising babies. I don't see how in just a couple of decades we've set some natural normal idea that adults should be playing with small children. Some how... some way.. this got tacked onto child care thru the guise of "education" and "developmentally appropriate activities". Nobody on the ground actually caring for groups of children was asked whether or not they wanted this or if they could get customers to pay for this... but put into our regs and the mindset of the parents it be.

I have been doing this for so long that I actually watched and recognized the societal shift as it was happening.

Even throughout school, I never had anyone say or imply that we should play with kids. Their catch phrase was that it was our job to "facilitate play," which if ur providing meaningful materials and helping them work out a problem if one arises, etc that's facilitating. Yeah I've helped my kids make a snowman and swim with them, but as far as playing w toys or activities on a regular basis I don't do that. There's nothing NOT DAP about not playing with the kids so I really don't know where or why it all started either.

[kendallina]

Even throughout school, I never had anyone say or imply that we should play with kids. Their catch phrase was that it was our job to "facilitate play," which if ur providing meaningful materials and helping them work out a problem if one arises, etc that's facilitating. Yeah I've helped my kids make a snowman and swim with them, but as far as playing w toys or activities on a regular basis I don't do that. There's nothing NOT DAP about not playing with the kids so I really don't know where or why it all started either.

I think that's a good point about there being a difference between facilitating play and playing with the kids. I bet most (or all of us) facilitate play in some way, just to different degrees. I looked up some specifics on 'facilitating play', as I'm not so good with words and this is what I got (from naeyc):

-focus on the process not the end goal of children's play
-ask exploratory questions
-elaborate and build on children's play
-reflect the emotions that children express in their play and interactions
-help children learn negotiation skills through defining the problem when they occur
-provide varied materials to encourage exploration and play
-provide open-ended materials for play

When we talk about playing with children, I think of running with them in the backyard or making animal noises along with them or holding onto a doll making cooing noises. I don't do that very often, but sometimes. Well, I run with them and dance with them because I need the exercise...::

Personally, I have a grad degree in child development, so I come from a background where NAEYC standards prevail and facilitating play is strongly encouraged. Since being on my own (only since Sept) in family preschool, I find myself stepping back from facilitating their play, because I really do believe that children need to learn to play by themselves, figure things out themselves and solve problems with as minimal adult assistance as possible.

My husband teaches at the university level and he has seen an incredibly sharp decline in young adults abilities to solve problems and think on their own. We both really think that adults are intervening WAY too much with children and children no longer have to figure things out themselves (I also think tv/electronic use is out of control and schools are focusing too much on the right answer and not at all on problem solving skills...but those are for a different post ).

Just my 2cents...

[Former Teacher]

Oh yeah then I would have them play toys with each other. That's just a fee for supervision and their housing expenses that day. You could offer activites to the parents for additional fees but my guess is they will be happy to get such a great rate for just supervision and daily cost.

Not to be rude or anything but basically what you are saying is that if the parents don't pay you enough to play with their child you don't? Nannyde, you never cease to amaze me with the comments you come up with :: Like I said not being rude, just stating an opinion

I am now a private nanny. The parents pay me well enough to get on the floor and give each of their children personalized attention. I teach, I play, and I help around the house. I cook whatever and whenever I want. I take off my bra and shoes. I watch whatever I want on t.v. I am basically a member of this family. The bad side? They are a military family so in 2012 they will most likely be moving. Like my mother says, then I will have to find a REAL job

[Crystal]

Not to be rude or anything but basically what you are saying is that if the parents don't pay you enough to play with their child you don't? Nannyde, you never cease to amaze me with the comments you come up with :: Like I said not being rude, just stating an opinion

I am now a private nanny. The parents pay me well enough to get on the floor and give each of their children personalized attention. I teach, I play, and I help around the house. I cook whatever and whenever I want. I take off my bra and shoes. I watch whatever I want on t.v. I am basically a member of this family. The bad side? They are a military family so in 2012 they will most likely be moving. Like my mother says, then I will have to find a REAL job

! never ceases to amaze many of us

[marniewon]

Not to be rude or anything but basically what you are saying is that if the parents don't pay you enough to play with their child you don't? Nannyde, you never cease to amaze me with the comments you come up with :: Like I said not being rude, just stating an opinion

I am now a private nanny. The parents pay me well enough to get on the floor and give each of their children personalized attention. I teach, I play, and I help around the house. I cook whatever and whenever I want. I take off my bra and shoes. I watch whatever I want on t.v. I am basically a member of this family. The bad side? They are a military family so in 2012 they will most likely be moving. Like my mother says, then I will have to find a REAL job

I'm guessing you make well over min. wage.....like I said in a post above, I'd be on the floor playing with the kids too, if the parents wanted to pay me min. wage!

[nannyde]

basically what you are saying is that if the parents don't pay you enough to play with their child you don't? Nannyde, you never cease to amaze me with the comments you come up with :: Like I said not being rude, just stating an opinion

YES of course.

It's not rude at all. We SHOULD be having this conversation. We SHOULD be making it loud and clear that we... like every other business offer a range of services for a FEE. That fee represents the amount of WORK we are doing for the fee.

Why would child care be ANY different than ANY other business? Of course you get what you pay for. We understand that completely with EVERYTHING else. We pay for to the unit our electricity. We pay per gallon for our gas and our water. We pay by the minute for our cell phone.

If the parents are paying three dollars per hour then that would buy supervision, heat, food, water... basic care. If they are paying eight dollars an hour per kid and the child is one of two kids who are paying eight dollars an hour then the provider is making 16 dollars and hour. THAT buys a lot more effort, work, involvement, interaction etc. with the child.

Why would that be WRONG?

If the same child goes to the Doctor and they just see the Nurse Practicioner and doesn't have any tests or treatments done the bill would be as low as the business would allow.

If the same child needed to see a Dr and have lab work done the bill would be markedly higher.

The Doctors office is going to EXPECT to get paid more. The parents don't get to just walk in with a child and expect the health care provider to do WHATEVER the parents say or want just because they are bringing a CHILD to their office. The services the child receives are going to be based on the business being PAID to provide the services. More work means more money.

Just because we are in the business of children doesn't mean we just inately are required to do higher levels of work and involement because they are kids. We SHOULD get paid depending on "more" work. It is "more" work to play with a child then it is to have the child entertain themselves. It's "more" work to do crafts than to have the child watch TV. It's "more" work to have a child up at nap than sleeping at nap.

It's not personal. It's just the fact. It's okay if we charge "more" if we DO "more".

[kendallina]

Yes, Nannyde, of course this is a business. Most of us are in business because we need to make money. I chose THIS business because I love children and want to do what's best for them.

The amount of money I make impacts the materials that I can buy and to some extent the amount of 'outside' hours time I put in. It does not effect how I interact with the children when the children are here. That doesn't seem right at all. I cannot imagine interacting with the children less (or in a less-quality way) if I were paid less.

Are you saying that if you got paid more you would play with the children more? What about what you believe is right for the children, where does that come in? Or is your only consideration money?

[AfterSchoolMom]

Yes, Nannyde, of course this is a business. Most of us are in business because we need to make money. I chose THIS business because I love children and want to do what's best for them.

The amount of money I make impacts the materials that I can buy and to some extent the amount of 'outside' hours time I put in. It does not effect how I interact with the children when the children are here. That doesn't seem right at all. I cannot imagine interacting with the children less (or in a less-quality way) if I were paid less.

Are you saying that if you got paid more you would play with the children more? What about what you believe is right for the children, where does that come in? Or is your only consideration money?

Can't you interact with a child in a quality way without playing directly with them for 8-10 hours every day? Just because you don't want to dress dolls, to play 25 games of Candyland, etc. for the WHOLE day doesn't mean that you can't do those things for SOME of the day, right? If you still relate to them in a loving way, provide for their needs in a timely manner, and give them quality toys to play with, isn't that ok? That's where this thread started. I don't think it has to neccessarily be all or nothing, but my concern was feeling guilt over not having the desire to get down on the floor and play all day. I think Nannyde is right - I don't get paid enough to provide constant entertainment to a child all day. If parents want that, they should be prepared to pay more for it. That doesn't mean that just because I'm getting paid 2 bucks an hour I'm going to sit and watch Soaps all day either, though...just that I guess I shouldn't feel guilty about time spent cleaning, reading this forum , or any of the other things that I do during the day.


I don't think I could have used the term "all day" any more in one paragraph...sorry about that.

[kendallina]

Can't you interact with a child in a quality way without playing directly with them for 8-10 hours every day? Just because you don't want to dress dolls, to play 25 games of Candyland, etc. for the WHOLE day doesn't mean that you can't do those things for SOME of the day, right? If you still relate to them in a loving way, provide for their needs in a timely manner, and give them quality toys to play with, isn't that ok? That's where this thread started. I don't think it has to neccessarily be all or nothing, but my concern was feeling guilt over not having the desire to get down on the floor and play all day. I think Nannyde is right - I don't get paid enough to provide constant entertainment to a child all day. If parents want that, they should be prepared to pay more for it. That doesn't mean that just because I'm getting paid 2 bucks an hour I'm going to sit and watch Soaps all day either, though...just that I guess I shouldn't feel guilty about time spent cleaning, reading this forum , or any of the other things that I do during the day.


I don't think I could have used the term "all day" any more in one paragraph...sorry about that.

I do not think that quality = playing with the child all day. Earlier in this thread I said that I play with the children some, but mostly they play with each other.
What I meant to refer to when I said "less-quality way" is however one defines quality. All of us define it differently.

What I am referring to in this post is that no matter how much I'm getting paid I interact in a way that I believe is good for the children. I don't believe that it's best for children for me to be their play-partner all day. But, what Nannyde seemed to be saying (unless I misunderstood...) is that if she made more money she would play with the children more. So my question is what does she think is best for the children? Where does that fit in to how she interacts with them or is it all about the amount of money she's getting paid.

ETA: I absolutely agree it is not our job to entertain children. It has nothing to do with how much we are getting paid though. You couldn't pay me to entertain children all day, that's the exact opposite of what children need, so I wouldn't do it.

[nannyde]

But, what Nannyde seemed to be saying (unless I misunderstood...) is that if she made more money she would play with the children more. So my question is what does she think is best for the children? Where does that fit in to how she interacts with them or is it all about the amount of money she's getting paid.

Oh I think you understood me.

What I think is best for children is what I offer.

We provide excellent supervision. (1 adult to 4 children max)
We provide health assessment (I'm a RN)
We provide the highest quality home made from scratch foods that are purchased locally, directly from the Farmer, in season, grass fed, free ranging, sustainable, and chemcial free.
Daily exercise
Deep restorative sleep
Dedicated space for sleep and play.
Extensive toy collections for each age group.

So we use our fees to provide supervision, food, exercise, sleep, and toy play.

That's what my parents pay for.

Every home day care provider gets to decide what services they offer and what the market can sustain. Of course you must comply with the minimum standards of health and safety in your State. Fortunately my State is very general in their standards and leave a lot of decisions up to us on how we want to execute those standards. I've had two inspections in the last three years and received a 100 percent compliance on both unnanounced. I don't play when it comes to the minimum standards. I do as I'm told.

I think where a lot of the confusiion and line blurring comes from what is the difference between educating the kids and playing with the kids. Those have been muddled together and one has become the other. The new "best practice" is education which in my opinion means "playing" with the kids. I'm sure you early childhood educators will point out that in some cases yes and in some no but from where I sit it smells a lot like playing with kids.

I think the best education you can give a birth to five kid is to leave their education alone and let them have an early childhood of good food, space, exercise, developmentally appropriate toys, visual/proximal supervision when they are out of bed, and time to have a long solid deep afternoon nap. Sprinkle that with the luvins, years and years of TIME with the same child, and a good relationship with their parents and VOILA... you get a kid ready to start Kindergarten.

I think the year before they go to Kindergarten they should have more of the play time be time to shore up on "pre Kindy" skills. That's how I do it.

If a child is with me from birth to the year before they go to Kindergarten then we spend the two semesters before they go off to Kindy where we see where the kid is at and work to accomplish anything that hasn't already come thru in their natural kid generated play. It's usually a pretty simple process because those kids before that child have taught them most of what they need to know.

We look at their basic skill set such as naming and pointing to colors, naming and pointing to basic shapes, knows basic body parts (shoulders, chest, knees, nose etc.), able to place objects in order, sorts objects, counts to 100, points to and names numbers, holds crayons and pencils appropriately, holds scissors appropriately and able to cut out wavy lines, circles, triangles, lines, names all the letter (upper and lower), points to the letters, recognizes name in print, and prints name.

So these are the things I look for in the last year before they go off to school. Usually a child will have 80 percent of that down before the school year before Kindy. We devote adult time to the child to finish up the rest if he/she needs it. I ONLY do this with kids I have raised though. I don't normally have kids who haven't been raised here since birth.

Because they have had a LONG childhood of playing with EACH OTHER without too much adult generated activites they are very quick learners with anything that IS adult generated. They also have the gift of years of playing with YOUNGER children which is IMHO way way way more important than playing with an adult. Younger children (meaning children who are 1.5-3 years younger) can offer the child more than I ever could. They are the best teachers in my home.

So anyway... how it relates to the money is that I charge my fees according to the foundational care of the child supervision, food, exercise, sleep, and toy play. Then when the child is in the last year before Kindy we use a small portion our fees to cover the staff time for shoring up their skill set for school. I say "small portion" because by the time they have been here for four plus years they require very little time to meet the prekindy basic skill set.

IF I had more money per child I could offer more adult generated activities and involvement at a younger age but I've never found parents willing to pay for it. I've actually offered dual rates to include more staff time for "playing with/educating" their kid (with a specific amount of time attached to the fee) and I haven't had a single taker. They parents I work for CAN afford the basics I offer but they don't have any interest in paying more for more "adults playing/educating" kids time. They ALL have the option to pay for that in addition to our fee though so if they feel it is something they want for the child all they gotsta do is pony up the $$$ and I'll be HAPPY to oblige.

I have the unique position too to have YEARS of paying for a second person here when I'm not required to have additional help. I know EXACTLY how much it costs to do adult involved "play/education". I can tell you EXACTLY how much it costs to have children paint. I know EXACTLY how much it costs to have them do play doh. I know EXACTLY how much it costs to do story time. I know EXACLTY how much it costs to get eight kids in full winter gear. I know EXACTLY what it costs to go out for a 45 minute walk. I can get all of that down to the penny.

I also know EXACTLY what it costs to do free play supervision WHILE you are getting other things done that serve our basic services (food prep is huge, cleaning of the inventory, safety checking of equipment (very time consuming) paperwork, etc.) When I decide where our funds go for services I have to first make sure that we live up to the basic agreement we have in the core services of supervision, food, exercise, sleep, and toy play. Once those have been met THEN we can decide daily what we will add into that. First we look at our group of kids going to Kindy and then if there is actual TIME available THEN we do sumpin sumpin a little special. We are fluid every day in what we do and sometimes we DO have time to do extra.

Lastly, remember that my parents spend about five waking hours a day with their children and most of my kids are only children. Day care is just ONE of the things the kids do every day. My day care parents spend TIME .. not quality time.. quantity time with their kids EVERY day. The ones that are wanting curriculum and educational activities with adult play do it WITH their child for free. My kids parents are their play partners and their teachers. As it should be... They don't expect me to do their job. If I want to do then of course they would love it... but they know that THEY are their child's "Master Teacher" and when they choose their childs playmate.

[MommyMuffin]

I don't know WHY this generation of children are so unique to the thousands of years we humans have been raising babies. I don't see how in just a couple of decades we've set some natural normal idea that adults should be playing with small children.

I completely agree! I am 25 years old so I have not seen this shift personally, but I disagree with some of societies push on mothers and providers. "You have to do this otherwise your baby will not be smart" "or socially accepted..or behind"....then its...this that and the other.
My friend told me she was thinking about buying your baby can read and I about laughed in her face. 70 - 100 dollars for some flash cards and cds. I'm sorry but what a crock!
I wish I could see my grandma in action back in the day with her 4 kids and see what that was like. I bet they had a great time and used their darn imaginations....

[Crystal]

I completely agree! I am 25 years old so I have not seen this shift personally, but I disagree with some of societies push on mothers and providers. "You have to do this otherwise your baby will not be smart" "or socially accepted..or behind"....then its...this that and the other.
My friend told me she was thinking about buying your baby can read and I about laughed in her face. 70 - 100 dollars for some flash cards and cds. I'm sorry but what a crock!
I wish I could see my grandma in action back in the day with her 4 kids and see what that was like. I bet they had a great time and used their darn imaginations....

Things like your baby can read, baby einstein, etc. are not Developmentally Appropriate activities for children. I have never once used a flashcard, a video or anything even resembling those to teach young children. Society is wrong, but they also are not experts in the field. They do what sells to parents......it's not hard to convince a new parent that flashing lights and digital pictures are the way to go, as they have grown up in a time of electronics being THE way to go

Offering hands on, play-based, and real-life learning are the best ways to provide a solid foundation.