Help Me Better Understand How to Use TO

[daycare]

OK, this may sound silly coming from a seasoned provider.

But
1. I hardly ever use it
2. Too many different views on how it is to be used


Reason I ask, is because I have a DCK we will call her Betty.

Betty is 2 and does not get nearly enough sleep. I know this because I have had her brother in my care for over 3 years and DCPs don't know how to establish a bed time routine. Betty and her bro go to bed when they decide to fall asleep. Dad is a Lawyer, mom does not work. YES I have Betty and Bro FT 5 days a week from 8-530.

Betty is 2.8 and very stubborn, just like her Bro

Lately when Betty comes she is being overly aggressive to the other kids, you can tell that she is just beyond exhausted.

My rule is, if you hit you sit, but I can't recall the last time we used it.

Well Betty has been doing a lot of hitting and as soon as I remove her from the scene of the crime. Screams of death belt out from her tiny body for more minutes than anyone can keep count.

So, if she is to sit in her TO for only 2 min per age, and she spends it screaming at the top of the lungs. What did she learn? I still can't talk with her about it, she's like a drunk midget. You just can't get through.

How long do I let her sit there? Until she stops crying? She normally will just scream herself to sleep, which can me 15-20 minutes some times.

I almost term family last year when kids basically came all day to sleep because it interfered with our program and Field Trips.

I am sick of trying to help DCM set up a routine, tired of trying to leave them up so they can not spend all day sleeping and actually sleep at night because that does not work, calling mom to pick up does nothing.

SOrry I got of the track here. So my question is, how long would you have a child sit in time out who is like this one screaming at the top of their lungs and there is no getting through to them during this time?

[jenboo]

OK, this may sound silly coming from a seasoned provider.

But
1. I hardly ever use it
2. Too many different views on how it is to be used


Reason I ask, is because I have a DCK we will call her Betty.

Betty is 2 and does not get nearly enough sleep. I know this because I have had her brother in my care for over 3 years and DCPs don't know how to establish a bed time routine. Betty and her bro go to bed when they decide to fall asleep. Dad is a Lawyer, mom does not work. YES I have Betty and Bro FT 5 days a week from 8-530.

Betty is 2.8 and very stubborn, just like her Bro

Lately when Betty comes she is being overly aggressive to the other kids, you can tell that she is just beyond exhausted.

My rule is, if you hit you sit, but I can't recall the last time we used it.

Well Betty has been doing a lot of hitting and as soon as I remove her from the scene of the crime. Screams of death belt out from her tiny body for more minutes than anyone can keep count.

So, if she is to sit in her TO for only 2 min per age, and she spends it screaming at the top of the lungs. What did she learn? I still can't talk with her about it, she's like a drunk midget. You just can't get through.

How long do I let her sit there? Until she stops crying? She normally will just scream herself to sleep, which can me 15-20 minutes some times.

I almost term family last year when kids basically came all day to sleep because it interfered with our program and Field Trips.

I am sick of trying to help DCM set up a routine, tired of trying to leave them up so they can not spend all day sleeping and actually sleep at night because that does not work, calling mom to pick up does nothing.

SOrry I got of the track here. So my question is, how long would you have a child sit in time out who is like this one screaming at the top of their lungs and there is no getting through to them during this time?

::::::

For me, time out starts after they calm down. Letting her get up when she is still screaming won't do anything. Tell her that when she is quiet, her time out well start.

[Sunchimes]

I have one like this-different cause, but same behavior. He's 21 months old. His therapist said I should use a time out, but since he's so young, it's actually a social time out rather than a timed one. However, if he goes into a screaming rage when I sit him down, I am to help him go to our crying corner. When he tries to leave the corner, I gently put him back and tell him that he can come out when he stops crying. It took a couple of weeks, but it worked wonders. Now, when he bites/hits/pinches/pulls hair, I sit him down facing away from the victim. Generally, he gets right back up and moves on to something else and all is well. Hurray!! When he does go into a fit (about once a day instead of every 15 minutes), he takes himself to the crying corner and stays until he is over it. Now and then I have to remind him, but he has mostly taken control of himself and either chooses to go play or to go in the corner and cry. He's an extremely smart child, so that's why it is working so young.

[llpa]

I use t/o only with children old enough to understand why they are there. I honestly would separate her every time she hits someone saying "if you hit others then you aren't ready to play with them, so I am going to have you play alone for a while and you can play with this". ( I give two choices of what the child can have and they pick one.) If they scream and cry, then I say "when you are calm, we will try again. And we do. But at the first sign of aggression, back to alone time, same toy same process. It works for me as that one toy gets pretty boring after a while. :: for me, T/o works best with children over 3 yrs old, and even then my separation policy works better. Good luck!

[Blackcat31]

I wouldn't use a TO for a child that age.

I would simply remove her from the group. Even if that means she just goes to play by herself.

The lesson you want her to learn is if she can't behave in "public" then she is not allowed in "public".

Her "public" is her peers and playmates.

If she is hitting, she needs to leave the group and play solo until you move onto the next activity and then you re-set. She is part of the group until she mis-behaves again.

Rinse and repeat. They learn REALLY fast what proper social behavior is.

[daycare]

The other issue that occurs is that she screams een if I redirect her. So eventually she just falls asleep after 10-15 min

I've tried lying her down right after she eats. No luck with that.

[preschoolteacher]

I wouldn't use a TO for a child that age.

I would simply remove her from the group. Even if that means she just goes to play by herself.

The lesson you want her to learn is if she can't behave in "public" then she is not allowed in "public".

Her "public" is her peers and playmates.

If she is hitting, she needs to leave the group and play solo until you move onto the next activity and then you re-set. She is part of the group until she mis-behaves again.

Rinse and repeat. They learn REALLY fast what proper social behavior is.

Where do they go when separated? I'm trying to figure it out logistically. When can they return?

[lynne]

With my 2's they go to the crying corner and the time starts after they quit crying. By 2 they know not to hit, bite,kick and hurt other kids. I'm working with a new child right now, never been to daycare and gramma is the only one that has watched him. He did try to throw things and throw a fit but I put him in the cry spot and told him when he was done he could come out. only took 3 times.... and he found out that when you throw things over the gate and at the walls Mimi takes them away. He's doing great!

[debbiedoeszip]

I wouldn't put a child that age in TO if the reason why they are acting out is fatigue. I would talk to the parents and let them know that her fatigue is causing issues for the child. Let them know that if it continues that you will have to term, and that you feel bad for their DD because the reasons why she's acting out are beyond her control (fatigue due to parents dropping ball re: bedtime) however you do run a group program and that you cannot accommodate a chronically overtired toddler.

[Blackcat31]

Where do they go when separated? I'm trying to figure it out logistically. When can they return?

Anywhere outside the group.

Sometimes that is in the same room but not participating in the same activity as others and sometimes it is the other room all together.

I allow them to come back when they decide they want to come back. For the really young kiddos, it's just the point of being separated and honestly even if they are only separated for 30 seconds, they understand the concept.

For older kids, they usually pout a bit before ****ing it up and returning to the group.

Of course, if they resume the unwanted behavior once they've rejoined the group/area, they are asked to leave again.

With the littles, this can be repeatedly until they understand and with the older ones, I usually limit the number of times I will allow them to be removed and allowed to come back.

Like everything else in mixed age group care, each situation is dependent on the child's developmental and maturity levels.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

I wouldn't use a TO for a child that age.

I would simply remove her from the group. Even if that means she just goes to play by herself.

The lesson you want her to learn is if she can't behave in "public" then she is not allowed in "public".

Her "public" is her peers and playmates.

If she is hitting, she needs to leave the group and play solo until you move onto the next activity and then you re-set. She is part of the group until she mis-behaves again.

Rinse and repeat. They learn REALLY fast what proper social behavior is.

I do this but I call it a time out. So, I guess you are on to something Daycare as far as we all have different versions of time out.

This DOES work really well. I had an aggressive 2 years and 8 months old little DCK and it took about 3 weeks to fully get it under control. I also utilized the "stop it now!" stare.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

Where do they go when separated? I'm trying to figure it out logistically. When can they return?

For mine, they go sit in the kitchen (open floor plan but there is a little half wall in between that kitchen and all of the daycare rooms). They can return when I deem them ready to "try again." That depends on what occurred. It is usually for, at least, 20 minutes. I want them to be slightly bored by the time they come back so they don't want to be separated again. Sometimes, it is for the remainder of center time (however long that is). If they did something big and wind up playing solo for the rest of Center Time they usually are a whole new kid when they re-join because they don't want to have to play with that 1-2 toys alone in the kitchen again.
"Because you made a bad choice and did _______, I can't trust you to play with your friends right now. I will let you know when you may come back and try again."

[Blackcat31]

I do this but I call it a time out. So, I guess you are on to something Daycare as far as we all have different versions of time out.

This DOES work really well. I had an aggressive 2 years and 8 months old little DCK and it took about 3 weeks to fully get it under control. I also utilized the "stop it now!" stare.

Good point!

My idea of Time Out is sitting in a chair.

I feel like that is akin to solitary confinement and is a punishment where as exclusion is more of a natural consequence.

Child is free to play elsewhere and does not have to sit.

So yes...I suppose it would be beneficial to each provider and DCF is we defined what TO means to us so that everyone is on the same page.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

Good point!

My idea of Time Out is sitting in a chair.

I feel like that is akin to solitary confinement and is a punishment where as exclusion is more of a natural consequence.

Child is free to play elsewhere and does not have to sit.

So yes...I suppose it would be beneficial to each provider and DCF is we defined what TO means to us so that everyone is on the same page.

I will start defining "time out" to my DCF's. I am sure they think I mean something along the lines of sitting in a chair as well, now that I am thinking about it.

I used to use a hula hoop. They had to sit within the circle of the hula hoop and could play with a toy there within the same room as the other kids but still separated. Then, I had a child attempt to destroy my hula hoop every single time (which really, really bothered me...I don't do purposefully done destruction) so now there is NO hula hoop but there IS a kitchen where they can't see other kids. Oh, and I don't let them choose the toy they play with. I give them 1-2 toys that I know they don't absolutely love.

[Indianadaycare]

Do you think a 12 month old is too young for separation during major temper tantrums? Recently I've been dealing with this and have been putting him in his play yard, but that is in a room off the main play room where he can't see me. (It's a nice room, just not the same room where I'm in with dcb) Wondering if I should move the play yard (his TO spot) into the main room where he can see me while he throws his fit.