Anyone Have Experience Dealing With A Child Like This?

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  • Unregistered

    Anyone Have Experience Dealing With A Child Like This?

    Ok I logged out to post this. I have a 2.5 year old that has been at my home daycare for a year. Since day 1 of the child being here he has been a handful. I really think it might be some type of personality disorder or something. Reading online I am leaning towards narcissistic personality disorder. But I honestly have no idea because I have never seen anything like this. I've had alot of different kids and different issues but nothing like this. Since the first few days the child was here he was constantly trying to control what everyone was doing, playing with. He was 18 month when he started with me. Not only did he try to control the other children but me. I think the second day he was here I mentioned to the parents that he seemed to be always trying to control everything. They agreed and said it does it all the time. Over the past year it has been a constant daily battle. Like all daycares we have rules of what we can and can't do. This child is constantly doing the opposite. To the extent he will look at me directly then throw a toy. I ask him to pick it up and he goes completely blank staring ahead. I ask him again. Blankly stares ahead. I put him in a timeout and return him to pick it up and same thing. He stares blankly ahead. At the table he will purposely extend his hand and drop food. I tell him no and he gives me the dirtiest look like how dare you speak to me. If I am speaking to one of the other children he keeps interrupting and saying his own name. If I take a phone call he immediately starts talking really loud. Not really saying anything. Same thing if I am talking to my daughter. I repeatedly tell him no wait til I'm finished. Then go back to him. But then he just ignores me. Its really strange. He is so manipulative, controlling, self centered, lacks empathy for others. He doesn't think of anyone but himself. Everything is about him and him only.

    I have talked to the parents and it sounds like he is driving the mother crazy in the evening with the same behaviors. She tried putting him in a timeout and it doesn't work. But I do think there are parenting issues. The mom is putting him in his room for a timeout or on a chair in the middle of the room. Really not a timeout. And she is starting to increase the time because she doesn't want to deal with him. I totally understand that because I find myself doing the same. If he isn't in a timeout he is trying to do something to get in trouble. I spoke to the mom the other day and suggested maybe she talk to a organization in town that works with kids. I suggested to her that there could be something else. She said like what autism. I said I don't know and that I honestly never have seen anything like this before.

    How in the world do you deal with something like this. Its so tiring dealing with this kid. On a day when there are no other issues with other kids its no problem. But when there is a new child and a younger child that requires more attention it makes it impossible. I don't want to just terminate the kid. I can't afford it. There must be something besides timeout that would work. I don't think I can enlist the parents help at all. I honestly think there must be something really wrong with what they are doing for their child to be like this. My timeouts are done in the hall outside the playroom. Where I can still see the child. They are put facing the wall. When this hasn't worked i've tried a playpen in the next room. He didn't like that. Which might have been more effective. But I can't do that everyday since that is where I have babies who need an extra nap in the morning. Any ideas? I am taking way too much tylenol!
  • EntropyControlSpecialist
    Embracing the chaos.
    • Mar 2012
    • 7466

    #2
    Originally posted by Unregistered
    Ok I logged out to post this. I have a 2.5 year old that has been at my home daycare for a year. Since day 1 of the child being here he has been a handful. I really think it might be some type of personality disorder or something. Reading online I am leaning towards narcissistic personality disorder. But I honestly have no idea because I have never seen anything like this. I've had alot of different kids and different issues but nothing like this. Since the first few days the child was here he was constantly trying to control what everyone was doing, playing with. He was 18 month when he started with me. Not only did he try to control the other children but me. I think the second day he was here I mentioned to the parents that he seemed to be always trying to control everything. They agreed and said it does it all the time. Over the past year it has been a constant daily battle. Like all daycares we have rules of what we can and can't do. This child is constantly doing the opposite. To the extent he will look at me directly then throw a toy. I ask him to pick it up and he goes completely blank staring ahead. I ask him again. Blankly stares ahead. I put him in a timeout and return him to pick it up and same thing. He stares blankly ahead. At the table he will purposely extend his hand and drop food. I tell him no and he gives me the dirtiest look like how dare you speak to me. If I am speaking to one of the other children he keeps interrupting and saying his own name. If I take a phone call he immediately starts talking really loud. Not really saying anything. Same thing if I am talking to my daughter. I repeatedly tell him no wait til I'm finished. Then go back to him. But then he just ignores me. Its really strange. He is so manipulative, controlling, self centered, lacks empathy for others. He doesn't think of anyone but himself. Everything is about him and him only.

    I have talked to the parents and it sounds like he is driving the mother crazy in the evening with the same behaviors. She tried putting him in a timeout and it doesn't work. But I do think there are parenting issues. The mom is putting him in his room for a timeout or on a chair in the middle of the room. Really not a timeout. And she is starting to increase the time because she doesn't want to deal with him. I totally understand that because I find myself doing the same. If he isn't in a timeout he is trying to do something to get in trouble. I spoke to the mom the other day and suggested maybe she talk to a organization in town that works with kids. I suggested to her that there could be something else. She said like what autism. I said I don't know and that I honestly never have seen anything like this before.

    How in the world do you deal with something like this. Its so tiring dealing with this kid. On a day when there are no other issues with other kids its no problem. But when there is a new child and a younger child that requires more attention it makes it impossible. I don't want to just terminate the kid. I can't afford it. There must be something besides timeout that would work. I don't think I can enlist the parents help at all. I honestly think there must be something really wrong with what they are doing for their child to be like this. My timeouts are done in the hall outside the playroom. Where I can still see the child. They are put facing the wall. When this hasn't worked i've tried a playpen in the next room. He didn't like that. Which might have been more effective. But I can't do that everyday since that is where I have babies who need an extra nap in the morning. Any ideas? I am taking way too much tylenol!
    I can tell you are getting to the end of your rope but what you described that is bolded is exactly what a 1.5-2.5 year old IS. They ARE self-centered. They DON'T think about anyone but themselves. Usually around 2 1/2 to 2 3/4 I start seeing a slight shift in the child's behavior and interactions with others. They start really getting things. He does sound really challenging but you aren't going to get a diagnosis or assistance from a Doctor if there really IS something else going on until he is well past the toddler years since those are typical toddler behaviors. Some just seem waaaaay more extreme than others.

    Comment

    • preschoolteacher
      Daycare.com Member
      • Apr 2013
      • 935

      #3
      I have seen that behavior a lot in all the kids I've met this age, but it seems like he may be more of a handful than most.

      I think he's probably controlling because he's used to being the boss at home and that his parents lack parenting skills and may just give in to him.

      The blank stare when you give him direction is probably his way of saying no, being the boss. I wouldn't assume he's actually blank, unaware, you know? He seems very aware, great at manipulating!

      I guess what you described sounds like one handful of a kid, but I wouldn't think any underlying issue like autism or anything psychological is the cause. These aren't the typical characteristics of autism.

      Comment

      • Chellieleanne
        Daycare.com Member
        • May 2014
        • 187

        #4
        My now 3yo DCB was like that when he started almost a year ago. Add in violence on top of everything and it drove me nuts. I have been working so dang hard with him and I am going to be losing him soon because I am having a baby and DCM and I both know it would be a hard transition for him after being away from here to come back The change with him came at about 2.5(around February) when something just clicked in his head that he needed to be nice to his friends, listen, use his words and they would play and share with him. Since then he still has moments but when he gets like that it usually means a) not enough sleep the night before and it is nap time or b) it is snack or lunch time. I would reinforce the positive behavior, I would sit him alone if he was getting really mean or violent and let him calm down. Very rarely I would have to physically restrain him for him to calm down because he would get extremely violent and start trying to break things. Mom knew and agreed, when I first interviewed them dad told me to spank DCB um no not going to happen. A lot of patience and putting up with things many people would not but it has been a complete turn around. DCM comes to me and nearly every week she says something about how her friends or family have commented on how much better he is and so on. I am going to miss him but I hope he does just as well in new place. If not well I will always take him back after I get some time with my own newborn

        Comment

        • Unregistered

          #5
          Well I'm not his mother so no I wouldn't get a diagnosis. But I feel if there is something concerning that I should tell the parents. We do have an organization in town where children and parents can get help in the toddler years. I've had children here with FASD, autism, foster children and this is different. I agree most 2 year olds are very self centered but none quite like child. There is no doubt that he is enjoying starting something repeatedly everyday. His mother would definitely agree he does that. What is bolded is true. Again if you asked his parents they would completely agree with that statement. He tries to control what everyone plays with and what I do. All of that very controlling and manipulative. His mother uses the term manipulative too to describe him. I don't have enough time in a day to describe each and every behavior but my question was.

          When the timeouts don't work what do you do? How do you change the timeouts so they work. The child is extremely smart. 2 years old and he knows all letters, numbers, shapes, colors.

          Comment

          • Unregistered

            #6
            Originally posted by Chellieleanne
            My now 3yo DCB was like that when he started almost a year ago. Add in violence on top of everything and it drove me nuts. I have been working so dang hard with him and I am going to be losing him soon because I am having a baby and DCM and I both know it would be a hard transition for him after being away from here to come back The change with him came at about 2.5(around February) when something just clicked in his head that he needed to be nice to his friends, listen, use his words and they would play and share with him. Since then he still has moments but when he gets like that it usually means a) not enough sleep the night before and it is nap time or b) it is snack or lunch time. I would reinforce the positive behavior, I would sit him alone if he was getting really mean or violent and let him calm down. Very rarely I would have to physically restrain him for him to calm down because he would get extremely violent and start trying to break things. Mom knew and agreed, when I first interviewed them dad told me to spank DCB um no not going to happen. A lot of patience and putting up with things many people would not but it has been a complete turn around. DCM comes to me and nearly every week she says something about how her friends or family have commented on how much better he is and so on. I am going to miss him but I hope he does just as well in new place. If not well I will always take him back after I get some time with my own newborn
            Yikes that seems worst.

            Comment

            • rebekki78
              Daycare.com Member
              • Sep 2013
              • 137

              #7
              Originally posted by Unregistered

              When the timeouts don't work what do you do? How do you change the timeouts so they work.
              I often wonder this.

              Comment

              • Unregistered

                #8
                Originally posted by preschoolteacher
                I have seen that behavior a lot in all the kids I've met this age, but it seems like he may be more of a handful than most.

                I think he's probably controlling because he's used to being the boss at home and that his parents lack parenting skills and may just give in to him.

                The blank stare when you give him direction is probably his way of saying no, being the boss. I wouldn't assume he's actually blank, unaware, you know? He seems very aware, great at manipulating!

                I guess what you described sounds like one handful of a kid, but I wouldn't think any underlying issue like autism or anything psychological is the cause. These aren't the typical characteristics of autism.

                Yep i know the blank stare is his way of showing me he is ignoring me. That is doesn't care what I say he isn't going to listen.

                Comment

                • EntropyControlSpecialist
                  Embracing the chaos.
                  • Mar 2012
                  • 7466

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Unregistered
                  Well I'm not his mother so no I wouldn't get a diagnosis. But I feel if there is something concerning that I should tell the parents. We do have an organization in town where children and parents can get help in the toddler years. I've had children here with FASD, autism, foster children and this is different. I agree most 2 year olds are very self centered but none quite like child. There is no doubt that he is enjoying starting something repeatedly everyday. His mother would definitely agree he does that. What is bolded is true. Again if you asked his parents they would completely agree with that statement. He tries to control what everyone plays with and what I do. All of that very controlling and manipulative. His mother uses the term manipulative too to describe him. I don't have enough time in a day to describe each and every behavior but my question was.

                  When the timeouts don't work what do you do? How do you change the timeouts so they work. The child is extremely smart. 2 years old and he knows all letters, numbers, shapes, colors.
                  You cannot MAKE a child care about their consequence, KWIM? You just have to find his currency. What does he really LOVE? That is where I would start and take away that item when his behavior is out of control.

                  Comment

                  • EntropyControlSpecialist
                    Embracing the chaos.
                    • Mar 2012
                    • 7466

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Unregistered
                    Yep i know the blank stare is his way of showing me he is ignoring me. That is doesn't care what I say he isn't going to listen.
                    I have one that goes into shutdown mode as well (2.5yo only child...blandino on the board and I call kids like this "baby boss child"). I don't say a word and do hand over hand. But, she never fights me to do it so I could have it way easier than you do in regards to shutdown mode 2.5yo children.

                    Comment

                    • Chellieleanne
                      Daycare.com Member
                      • May 2014
                      • 187

                      #11
                      For timeouts I found what worked best for my DCB is having him sit in the kitchen watching me clean or prep snack/lunch. Took me until about the time he started behaving to figure that out though No access to anything and he had to sit until he calmed down and would listen to me. Prior to that I tried having him face a wall, sitting in a corner, being in a small area to play alone, nothing really worked well. Another thing I added on(since I do it with my kids) I give a warning and then if they behavior/action does not change I count to 3 to give them time to redirect when they ignore everything else. At that point they lose what they were doing and get to be my buddy in the kitchen or where ever I may be working at the time.

                      Each kid is different and this has just all been my experience with a difficult child. The main thing is once you find something that works, be consistent. Keep your normal routine and if they misbehave then take action. Make them your buddy, make them sit in a quiet spot alone with no toys, find something that works for you that he will respond to. Then, talk to mom and make sure you are all on the same page so it remains consistent at home as well.

                      Comment

                      • Blackcat31
                        • Oct 2010
                        • 36124

                        #12
                        I don't use time out. I don't feel it is effective for anyone. Especially kids too young for school.

                        What I do instead is use a tiered system of natural consequences and rewards.

                        When kids exhibit certain behaviors, they are allowed to participate in certain activities. Each activity is based on the child's developmental level.

                        If a child throws things they aren't allowed to toys that are dangerous to throw.

                        If a child deliberately drops food/cups on the floor or off the table, they aren't allowed to have more than a bite or two at a time.

                        If a child won't clean up, they aren't allowed to play toys that require tons of clean up.

                        If a child rips or tears books, they aren't allowed to have tearable paper books.

                        Like ECS said, each child has a currency (a motivator to behave as expected) and it's up to us to find that currency when they are in our care.

                        I've had kids like the one you described and it does take a lot of work on the providers part but honestly, it IS "fixable"....you just have to find that currency, apply the tiered system of activities and be firm, consistent and routine day in and day out.

                        Comment

                        • Unregistered

                          #13
                          Sometimes this seems like the hardest thing in the world to do, but what I would try is a reset - keep finding something he is doing well. There has to be something. Don' t talk about his bad behaviors, only his good ones.
                          You may have to deal with bad behaviors, but give him no words with this. Save all conversation with him for positive things.

                          Comment

                          • debbiedoeszip
                            Daycare.com Member
                            • Mar 2014
                            • 412

                            #14
                            <<<I really think it might be some type of personality disorder or something. Reading online I am leaning towards narcissistic personality disorder.>>>

                            It's not possible for a child, let alone a toddler, to have a personality disorder. While he doesn't sound like the most endearing toddler, he still isn't behaving outside of what is normal for his chronological and developmental age.

                            Comment

                            • MotherNature
                              Matilda Jane Addict
                              • Feb 2013
                              • 1120

                              #15
                              It's completely possible for a child to have a personality disorder. I wouldn't say toddler, as in those early years, personality and damage to it is being formed, but there are definitely sociopaths that are children. Traits usually start around 4-5, but the sociopath usually doesn't recognize they are different til 11-12 or so.

                              Comment

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