Tweet
How old is your group? How many are there? It really sounds like the problem may not all be about individual child behavior, but just that you have too many little ones for just two to handle. I don't know if you have the option to either downsize the group or add more help...but either of those would probably be your best option in what sounds like a chaotic situation.
-
-
Preschool Teacher,
Please don't take this personally because it's coming from my heart and not directed AT you AT all.
I feel really sad for those kids. I read stories like this so much and I can't help but think how the truth is that there really isn't anything you CAN do. You have way too many kids with way too many responsibilities.
That child you describe NEEDS an adult just for her. She needs an adult every day... day after day... for weeks and maybe months. She needs "micro corrections" done on her every move and consequences for infringements. She needs an adult who can really watch her every second and intervene at all of her root behavior.
I feel really sorry for preschool teachers and SUPER sorry for Teachers. I can't imagine being in the public school systems now. It has to be such a crappy job to not have the resources you need and the support you need to work directly with kids to "right" them into a path of excellent behavior.
Posts like this make me SO proud of my kids... my staff assistant... my parents... and myself. We don't have a single bit of what you described. My kids are respectful and very sweet to each other. They would NEVER behave like this in front of me or my staff.
What is the world coming to? We have simply lost our way. Soon enough there won't be adults willing to fill these positions because the work is too hard for the low amount of money.
Protect yourself from burn out. You have to take care of YOU first.
Huggles to you
Comment
-
it sounds like what goes on at a big, chain daycare i worked for before. profit driven (only) - maximum amount of kids with the minimum amount of teachers - ALWAYS!
8 two year olds and 2 adults? can't have that! check their temperatures...let's send one home sick and get that other teacher off the clock.
i would never, ever in a million years work in that type of environment again. i only did it bc i was working on my EC degree at the time and wanted to have as much experience with kids as i could for my resume.
nannyde, teaching is nowhere near the same as daycare though. not even close. in a daycare/preschool environment you typically have to do EVERYTHING - help kids potty, clean up accidents, set up for lunch, clean up from lunch, etc, etc, etc. if you're teaching, the kids go to the cafeteria and come back when they're finished. if they have an accident, they go to the nurse. if they puke, you call the janitor. so, you can actually spend your time teaching and if you have good classroom management skills...it's really not bad at all!Comment
-
I know what you are saying.
I'm saying the kids that have years and years of this kind of behavior end up in school at some point. I feel sorry for the teachers who have to deal with the behavior of the kids who have a whole childhood of this kind of behavior. Even though they don't have to do basic cares like we do they do have to do behavior.
That's what I meant.
Kids don't surface "clean" when they have an early childhood of violence, disrespect, defiance, etc. They only have a lot of practice doing it by the time they are five.
I'll betcha if you polled Kindy teachers who have ten years or more they would tell you that the behavior they deal with now doesn't look a thing like what they dealt with ten years ago.Comment
-
oh yeah, i'm sure ur right about kids being different than they were and teachers do have to deal with the behavior of course.
i guess it just depends on your style if behavior is an "issue" or not. there's always one or two in every bunch that test you.
teachers are also different than they were too - not just kids. i'm young, but everyone calls me "old school" when it comes to dealing with kids. you can be DAP when teaching and still be strict when it comes to behavior.
i will not stop a conversation with an adult because a kid walks up and needs to say something. that seems obvious to me, but it happens ALL the time. a kid walks up...teacher stops listening to the adult they're talking to so they can see what the kid wants. not me - no way jose. i'll put my hand up and they better go on until they see me not talking. i don't care if i'm talking about what's for dinner - i'm talking. i've had ppl my age and even older think it's just so funny that i do that. i just think unless you're on fire, there's no reason it can't wait. kids walking in the hallway always made me nuts too. now, if you're "dap" you should know it doesn't REALLY matter if they walk in a line and don't talk or not. you should have them pretend they are "secret spies" or play some silly game to get them to walk down the hall like humans.
NOPE - sorry. be quiet and walk like you're supposed or play time can be spent practicing how to walk. it only takes one or two sessions before they suddenly have self control. that's what it's about for me...not a perfect line, but self control.
i don't know how things got turned around so far backwards that kids became the bosses , but the adults that don't think everything their parents/teachers did was wrong can still manage a group without much trouble.Comment
-
You know what I guess the difference is? I don't think it's one or two. I think it's one or two half way thru the school year but I think it's more like 30 plus percent in the begining of school. I think what is different now is the amount of time it takes to get the kids to go native and the sheer number of them (children with significant behavioral issues) in each classroom.
I think it's one of the main reasons our school systems are failing on a catastrophic level and we are plummeting compared to other nations in core subjects. I think the teachers have to spend SO much of their energy dealing with behavior that they don't have the literal time to teach. Once they get the group sound enough so much of the year has gone by.
The way I see this is by the OP's post. They are really down to survival mode because of the sheer number of behavior issues. Once the kids get into school and the parents aren't "paying" for it then that alone will decrease some of the behavior issues. Once they have free school if they have constant significant issues then free becomes not available. Not having free is enough to get a good portion of the parents on board and things can start to change.
I just think the totality of it is worse than we really understand right now.Comment
-
i was watching dr. phil yesterday and this lady was on there with a 27 year old son who was basically a loser at life.
she said (dead seriously) that it was the school's fault bc she always did what she was supposed to do :
:
people don't want teachers disciplining their children - unless their children have behavior problems - then it's the teacher's fault!
i don't see that little free and appropriate education law changing anytime soon though. just imagine what the kids whose parents couldn't pay (if they had to) would be like!
Comment
-
The ages of the children are approximately 10 months to 5 years during the day. School age in the afternoon or on school holidays. Afterschoolmom asked how many there are. We really don't have that many. I guess we average around 10, sometimes less. The majority are 2-3 yrs.
And Kendallina, you described it perfectly! It seems like we spend the whole day "putting out fires". Of course some days are better than others, and some children listen better than others, but eventualy, it seems, even the good listeners become like the others.
So I guess this is our problem. Help! I don't know what else to do. I noticed today that I would try to praise them for something, and everyone was so loud they couldn't even hear me!
QualitTcare, I agree with your method of children's self control and how they should learn self control and not just have us trying to make a game of everything. (Besides that, I can't get them to listen long enough to explain the "game"!) I really believe that children need to learn how to listen and not just when they think it's a game. Children don't have any respect that even I was brought up with. If a person is talking to someone else (child or adult), you don't interrupt. You stand quietly and wait. One example of today's children: I was taking care of a toddler who had bumped their head really hard and was crying. I was afraid they would end up with a big lump. Another child walked up and kept trying to get my attention and yanking on my sleeve and everything. I patiently told her to wait a second. Immediately she took my head with her hands and forcefully turned it to face her instead of the hurt toddler. She was trying to tell me something that wasn't even an issue. They way she acted a person would have thought someone WAS on fire!
Okay everyone, help us out here. We need some major changes. I'm tired of being onto the children all day. I feel like I'm the mean old witch of the west. I know we're supposed to get on their level and explain everything to them. Like if they interrupt, then after you finish talking to the other person you should get down on the child's level and explain how they should wait quietly until the two people have finished talking. But if I did this for every issue every time, wow, nothing else would get done and I still wouldn't be able to talk to everyone about the problem because there's always several at once doing different things they shouldn't. We need Super Nanny! ::
By the way, just so everyone knows, this is a home daycare & preschool. I'm not the owner, so I don't have much authority toward discussing things with the parents. Termination of any of the children is NOT an option, so I can only work with what we have right now. Besides that, I love every one of the children in our care, so I wouldn't want to lose them...Comment
-
So you're an assistant? Is the owner as frustrated with the chaos as you are? What does she think should be done to bring the control back to the adults? Is she willing to listen to ideas and try things to make that happen?
I don't know that I have any good ideas, but I'm sure there are a lot of people here who could really help you! I'm looking forward to hearing those ideas - it can get kind of crazy here sometimes when I have a bunch of kids
Comment
-
Have you talked with your owner/co-teacher about how things are going? What is their take on things?The ages of the children are approximately 10 months to 5 years during the day. School age in the afternoon or on school holidays. Afterschoolmom asked how many there are. We really don't have that many. I guess we average around 10, sometimes less. The majority are 2-3 yrs.
And Kendallina, you described it perfectly! It seems like we spend the whole day "putting out fires". Of course some days are better than others, and some children listen better than others, but eventualy, it seems, even the good listeners become like the others.
So I guess this is our problem. Help! I don't know what else to do. I noticed today that I would try to praise them for something, and everyone was so loud they couldn't even hear me!
QualitTcare, I agree with your method of children's self control and how they should learn self control and not just have us trying to make a game of everything. (Besides that, I can't get them to listen long enough to explain the "game"!) I really believe that children need to learn how to listen and not just when they think it's a game. Children don't have any respect that even I was brought up with. If a person is talking to someone else (child or adult), you don't interrupt. You stand quietly and wait. One example of today's children: I was taking care of a toddler who had bumped their head really hard and was crying. I was afraid they would end up with a big lump. Another child walked up and kept trying to get my attention and yanking on my sleeve and everything. I patiently told her to wait a second. Immediately she took my head with her hands and forcefully turned it to face her instead of the hurt toddler. She was trying to tell me something that wasn't even an issue. They way she acted a person would have thought someone WAS on fire!
Okay everyone, help us out here. We need some major changes. I'm tired of being onto the children all day. I feel like I'm the mean old witch of the west. I know we're supposed to get on their level and explain everything to them. Like if they interrupt, then after you finish talking to the other person you should get down on the child's level and explain how they should wait quietly until the two people have finished talking. But if I did this for every issue every time, wow, nothing else would get done and I still wouldn't be able to talk to everyone about the problem because there's always several at once doing different things they shouldn't. We need Super Nanny! ::
By the way, just so everyone knows, this is a home daycare & preschool. I'm not the owner, so I don't have much authority toward discussing things with the parents. Termination of any of the children is NOT an option, so I can only work with what we have right now. Besides that, I love every one of the children in our care, so I wouldn't want to lose them...
Do you have a routine in place that includes time for outside/active play, sensory play, music, free play, etc.
Right now it seems the children know that they can get away with everything. Do you talk to them about their behavior - could even do it in small groups of 2-3 children. They could help set up some rules.
What is their environment like? How many rooms do you use? Are there enough toys to play without it being too many and overwhelming? Is there enough space for all the children?
Do the children get to make some of their own choices during the day?
Are there times when most of the children seem to be doing well? Like, at snack time or when you do a project together?
It's so hard to make suggestions without knowing more about the program. Maybe if you can answer those questions we'll have a better idea...Comment
-
I tried to personal message some of you, but had trouble getting it to go through. So if you end up with a bunch of messages of the same thing from me, I'm sorry! Kendallina, QualiTcare, Marniewon, and Nannyde, I tried to send it to you guys, so if you don't get it, let me know.
Everyone else, if you want to keep trying to help me, let me know and I'll send you a copy of the message I sent. My posts are getting too detailed so I wanted to do it more privately where noone who might recognize the daycare would know which one I'm talking about...Comment
-
Oops, Kidkaire, you got one also. I didn't list you in my post a second agoComment
-
Disobedient 4 year old
My 4 year old daughter is like that. She has been kicked out of daycare twice in the last year. The first daycare kicked her for not napping. She would lay on her mat for 2 hours awake as long as the daycare lady was in the room, but would get up and wake the other kids if she left the room. She switched to a new daycare that would let her stay up and watch TV during nap time. She was perfect until I finally got her baby sister in the new daycare. I was picking them up at two different daycares for months. Then the ratio of older kids to babies changed, she was again one of the oldest, and the daycare lady changed assistants. All of a sudden she became defiant at daycare. She has always been very stubborn, but now she just refuses to listen. At home we punish her if she doesn't listen. I admit we were a bit lax in giving too many chances but as soon as the daycare lady brought it to our attention, now we have a clear set of rules and conscequences and there are no warnings. If she throws a toy it is taken away immediately for the rest of the day. If she doesn't listen, we take away her lamp as she doesn't like being in the dark at night (not afraid, just doesn't like it). This seems to work at home, however, our daycare lady does not punish. If a kid hits another kids she will say firmly, we don't hit, and redirect. She will do this multiple times until after 5 or 6 times hitting, she will finally attempt a time-out. I guess with most of her kids she has never needed more than this and is not prepared to offer more discipline. Unfortunately she kept a lot of my daughter's difficulties minimized until she was completely fed up with her and gave us two weeks notice. Now that we are in our two weeks trying to find another daycare she tells me my daughter is so bad she will just get kicked out of another daycare so there is no point in my trying to find another daycare. She says her assistant hates my daughter. She tells me all this in front of my daughter.
I have explained to my daughter that she can't go and play at that daycare anymore because she misbehaved. I punish her anytime I pick her up after she has had a bad day, and reward and praise her when she has a good day. I always back up the daycare provider. I am not sure what else to do.
We have made an appointment with the pediatrician in the hopes of getting some behavioural therapy. She is a very loving girl that loves attention but is very stubborn and won't nap. Am I doomed to daycare hop until she starts school?
I understand the daycare lady's frustration, but at the same time, I do need daycare. I am trying a private daycare this time since the subsidized daycares are in very high demand here.Comment
-
I really feel for parents who, like you, try their best and have consequences at home for child's misbehavior, and it doesn't get better at daycare. Sometimes I think the daycare environment just does that to children...I really want the best for the children I care for, and hate for their sakes the amount of misbehavior going on, even from the other children, because that makes for a negative environment for everyone. We had a 4 yr old in our care who was pretty much what daycare providers would call "the perfect child", but then about 6 months before he'd be going to Kindergarten, his behavior dramtatically changed. Like a complete turn around...the same thing happend at home and at his other preschool (he attended another preschool besides our's, more academic based and only 2 hours long).
One of the main reasons we really hate to terminate children in our care is that we love the children and feel so bad that the parents will have such a hard time finding care for them somewhere else. It's not good for the children to be at one daycare, then have to be switched to another one, then another, etc. and in our area there aren't very many daycares close by. So if we terminate one for behavior, they pretty much won't have another place to bring them. For one thing, the other daycares wouldn't keep them any longer than the first two weeks trial period (that's for the worst cases, like one we had in our care for months with constant communication with parents, who were not supportive, then finally started enforcing the "3 strikes" policy, letting parents know each time they earned another strike, before finally accepting that we couldn't change the behavior and there was nothing more we could do and gave our two weeks notice). I really hope things improve for you and your little girl. The 3 yr old I started this thread talking about has improved a LOT, and we hardly have any issues with her refusal to listen anymore. So I pray that's the case for your little one at your next daycare. Would it be possible to hire someone to babysit her so she gets one on one care? The daycare environment may just be too overwhelming for her, and she may just need more one on one attention without so much other stuff going on around her. I'm afraid I would have had issues as a child if I had been in daycare. I really get overwhelmed in crowds and lots of noise
By the way, is your current provider allowed to use time outs? I know the government is trying to take away daycare providers use of time-outs, and it is highly discouraged even now. We use time-outs (which only work for certain children), but we're discouraged from it all the time by childcare experts and told to use redirection instead. So our time outs are only used for hitting (so they can regain control of their emotions) or direct out and out defiance.
Comment
-
Ahhh the ODD 3's! I swear 3 is worse than 2! ::
I've found that sticker charts work with children like this with a nice "carrot" to dangle at the end of it. (a special grab bag toy orly that goes home at the end of the day)
For example: They have to earn say, 10 stickers by the end of the week to pick something from the prize box. This will work for potty training too. First they get a sticker for going #1 on the potty and 2 stickers for doing #2.
Of course, they will all want to participate so you can base your sticker tallies on age of the child. Older children will need to earn more stickers since they are more "grown up".
Praise, praise, praise when she gets caught doing the right thing.
Patience - hopefully you'll turn her around.
Oops! Sorry - my post was in reply to the OP. Didn't realize this is an old thread.Comment
Comment