Trouble with DCB

[midaycare]

I have a school-aged dcb for the summer, age 6, who is also a child of a friend of mine. The dcb is also a friend of my son's (although probably not much longer).

I have always known dcb had some issues re: following directions, paying attention, and with being impulsive, but it is much worse than I thought.

I would have termed any other child for the things he has done, and if I didn't care about his mom and have a good friendship with her - he would be gone. I did tell dcm tonight that if I have another instance, he will have to go.

The lack of control this dcb has is astounding. If I tell him not to get on my furniture, he will then jump on it. If I tell him again, within 15 seconds he does it again 4 times. I want to very clearly state this is not a lack of respect. He does this with everyone - dcm, teachers, grandparents, his priest, strangers, everyone!

He has thrown a hard ball right at my mother's stomach. Just because. He wasn't mad. He kicked me in the butt twice today. Just because I bent over. He kicked my son today, hard. No reason. Just had energy. Thought he was playing.

That brings up something else - dcb takes playing to an entirely new level. Running over people, jumping on people, kicking, shouting, etc, etc, etc.

He kicks balls out of the playground on purpose. He throws balls out of the playground on purpose (right in the swamp, where I will never get them again. Well ... maybe next winter.)

He has no problem destroying my son's toys. Even an expensive remote control car that he really wanted for himself. I tell him "no" he can't go to the kitchen and get some food, and he goes upstairs to 'go to the bathroom' and I found out he wasn't going potty, he was sneaking an unhealthy snack. This is right after a meal or snack, so he's not hungry. He just wants sweets - or the best I have to offer here, which isn't much. We are a gluten free, pretty much candy free home.

He won't leave the little ones alone or keep his hands to himself. I don't have anyone under 22 months, or I would have to term him just for the safety of little ones.

There are so many examples - I can write forever on this. I brought up the usual tonight to dcm. Maybe ADHD, maybe food allergies. Start with a healthier diet and more sleep and see if it works (he eats crap at home and has to get up at 5:45 a.m every morning. He does take a nap here).

I am wondering though, and I don't want to offend anyone who is a single mom, so please don't take offense. Dcm is a single mother and father has been out of the picture until about 2 years. ago. He lives way too far away to ever see dcb. He calls him once a month for 5 minutes and tells dcb all about his brothers and sisters and how they are (brothers and sisters who live with their dad, who are his step-siblings, that he probably will never meet).

My environment here has a strong male presence. My dh comes home before dcb leaves, his pictures with my ds are everywhere in our home, a ton of dcd's do drop offs and pickups. Dcb starts out his day with me at 6:45 am, talking about his dad. I hear about him 50 times a day. If a song comes on that dcb likes, "I think my dad sings this song." If there is a book he likes, "I think my dad helped write this. I have two brothers and a sister far away from here. I want to send this to my dad." And on and on and on. Don't get me wrong - I don't mind the dad talk.

Is it possible dcb is depressed or upset about his father, and it is coming out as agression?

I just don't want to say to myself, "Hey, this kid is just going to be a problem child. Nothing I can do. I will count down the days until summer is over." As long as he has one last chance here, I want to give it to him.

I have tried constant redirection, just play (I do a curriculum here), intensive schooling (teaching him things a grade level above him, to keep his interest and challenge him), time outs, not allowing him the privileges here the older SA kids get, and rewarding for a few minutes here and there with my iPad.

I'm at my wits end and dcm is seeking counseling for dcb to make sure he processes the dad issue, or lack thereof. Dcm is not willing to consider ADHD or allergies. I don't blame her, just stating it will probable never be looked into.

So sorry so long. It is actually short considering what I could write about him. These aren't even his big "offenses".

I'm not sure what I'm asking, other than could this be related to dcb having an issue with dad? Anyone dealt with this.

[TwinKristi]

OMG I could have (and maybe did?) write this last year!!! My best friend of 20yrs son was OUT OF CONTROL!! I was at my wits end! I had a month and a week left and made the best of it. I did a behavior chart and gave him 2 stickers daily if he was good. He got warnings still but some days he only got 1 sticker. I wanted him to succeed but it was HARD!! She recently posted on Facebook that he may have ADHD (Uh hello!!??? News flash!! He always has!!) and wanted natural remedies or treatments. LOL :: I had to reply in a professional and friendly way but said he would benefit from meds. LOL

[midaycare]

OMG I could have (and maybe did?) write this last year!!! My best friend of 20yrs son was OUT OF CONTROL!! I was at my wits end! I had a month and a week left and made the best of it. I did a behavior chart and gave him 2 stickers daily if he was good. He got warnings still but some days he only got 1 sticker. I wanted him to succeed but it was HARD!! She recently posted on Facebook that he may have ADHD (Uh hello!!??? News flash!! He always has!!) and wanted natural remedies or treatments. LOL :: I had to reply in a professional and friendly way but said he would benefit from meds. LOL

You know, I'm really not a big fan of the ADD/ADHD diagnosis. But ... I dunno. This dcb ... The father thing has me thrown off because he talks about him all the time.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

You know, I'm really not a big fan of the ADD/ADHD diagnosis. But ... I dunno. This dcb ... The father thing has me thrown off because he talks about him all the time.

Sometimes kids with severe ADHD hyperfixate on something just like kids on the spectrum...
While I am a big advocate for a male parent and a female parent both being actively involved in their child's life (and I think MANY issues present themselves if not) it may be a combo of hyperfixation and desire/depression/etc.

I have an almost 6 kid with undiagnosed ADHD that I am counting down the weeks for because my sanity is running away from me. It is tiresome. The inpulsivity and hyperacticity rival 9 other kids combined...

[midaycare]

Sometimes kids with severe ADHD hyperfixate on something just like kids on the spectrum...
While I am a big advocate for a male parent and a female parent both being actively involved in their child's life (and I think MANY issues present themselves if not) it may be a combo of hyperfixation and desire/depression/etc.

I have an almost 6 kid with undiagnosed ADHD that I am counting down the weeks for because my sanity is running away from me. It is tiresome. The inpulsivity and hyperacticity rival 9 other kids combined...

Yes! I can't get a break because if I don't have eyes on him at all times, I know his impulse behavior can get the best of him.

[midaycare]

Sometimes kids with severe ADHD hyperfixate on something just like kids on the spectrum...
While I am a big advocate for a male parent and a female parent both being actively involved in their child's life (and I think MANY issues present themselves if not) it may be a combo of hyperfixation and desire/depression/etc.

I have an almost 6 kid with undiagnosed ADHD that I am counting down the weeks for because my sanity is running away from me. It is tiresome. The inpulsivity and hyperacticity rival 9 other kids combined...

Interesting about the hyper-fixation. Off to do some research ...

[nannyde]

You know, I'm really not a big fan of the ADD/ADHD diagnosis. But ... I dunno. This dcb ... The father thing has me thrown off because he talks about him all the time.

He's figured out that he gets a ton of adult if he says Dad. Stop discussing it with him or around him. He's using it to dominate you. He sees you are weak and confused when he does it. It doesn't have ANYTHING to do with his Dad. He has been gone too long for him to be so valuable to the kids minute to minute.

Tell him to stop talking about his Dad at your house. Tell him to talk about his Dad with his mom. When he says it... say "talk that to your moml" when he does it again say"talk to mom"

When he does it again say"Mom"

His Dad has NOTHING to do with him minding at your house. It has NOTHING to do with him being violent and disrespectful. It has nothing to do with him terrorizing the kids and roughing up your house.

Talk to him about that. Every conversation needs to be that. Nothing else matters.

[midaycare]

He's figured out that he gets a ton of adult if he says Dad. Stop discussing it with him or around him. He's using it to dominate you. He sees you are weak and confused when he does it. It doesn't have ANYTHING to do with his Dad. He has been gone too long for him to be so valuable to the kids minute to minute.

Tell him to stop talking about his Dad at your house. Tell him to talk about his Dad with his mom. When he says it... say "talk that to your moml" when he does it again say"talk to mom"

When he does it again say"Mom"

His Dad has NOTHING to do with him minding at your house. It has NOTHING to do with him being violent and disrespectful. It has nothing to do with him terrorizing the kids and roughing up your house.

Talk to him about that. Every conversation needs to be that. Nothing else matters.

I don't pay him any more or less attention when he talks about his dad. I usually redirect him to something else. He doesn't make these statements to just me - it's all the kids. I don't discuss his father with him, so I don't think he would think he gets more attention that way at my house.

I think that yes, it might be a stretch that the dad is causing these issues. But on the other hand, depression in kids can come out as aggression.

Conversations with him don't help. This 6 year old spends his life grounded at home because dcm can't get him to listen to anything she says. Dcm was constantly being called to the school because of his actions.

I would term any other child like this, and one more time he acts out around the little ones, he IS gone.

I'm certain he doesn't see me as weak. He behaves better for me than anyone else. The problem is his best is still bad behavior.

[KiddieCahoots]

My daughter has border line ADHD.
She is now 23yrs.
All throughout her life, her impulse control was zip, zero, nadda!
I was always in the emergency room with her. For things like her trying to jump up to the ceiling fan and hang onto one of the blades, to swing around on when the fan was on, just because she thought it looked fun!
And the funny thing is, she's remarkably intelligent! She's now a math major.

I think Nannyde may be right about him using dad to get some attention out of it.

My daughter went as far as to fake an injury to be able to get a ride in an ambulance.

I don't care for medicating children, if not necessary, and my daughter only needed it to concentrate in college, that she, herself requested with her doctor.
But if this is ADHD, some children that are on the more severe side of the spectrum may need it for a more stable life. And even though you've mentioned that it will take a long time for doctors to make a diagnosis, I believe starting with the doctors would be helpful in the long run.

Your friend and her son are SO... lucky to have you working with them. There are not too many people that would.

[midaycare]

My daughter has border line ADHD.
She is now 23yrs.
All throughout her life, her impulse control was zip, zero, nadda!
I was always in the emergency room with her. For things like her trying to jump up to the ceiling fan and hang onto one of the blades, to swing around on when the fan was on, just because she thought it looked fun!
And the funny thing is, she's remarkably intelligent! She's now a math major.

I think Nannyde may be right about him using dad to get some attention out of it.

My daughter went as far as to fake an injury to be able to get a ride in an ambulance.

I don't care for medicating children, if not necessary, and my daughter only needed it to concentrate in college, that she, herself requested with her doctor.
But if this is ADHD, some children that are on the more severe side of the spectrum may need it for a more stable life. And even though you've mentioned that it will take a long time for doctors to make a diagnosis, I believe starting with the doctors would be helpful in the long run.

Your friend and her son are SO... lucky to have you working with them. There are not too many people that would.

You mentioned something here - about your dd being good in math and really smart. Dcb is also very intelligent. I have him doing 2nd grade math, and he is going into 1st grade. I taught him multiplication this week, no problem. He gets it. I have him doing book reports - when he can focus, he writes good sentences. He just gets up 20 times in the meantime

I'm so glad your dd is well adjusted and happy. That is hopeful for this dcb. Trying to spin off of a fan would be exactly the type of thing dcb would do.

[e.j.]

I brought up the usual tonight to dcm. Maybe ADHD, maybe food allergies.

Is it possible dcb is depressed or upset about his father, and it is coming out as agression?

Dcm is not willing to consider ADHD or allergies. I don't blame her, just stating it will probable never be looked into.

The two issues - possible ADHD and depression over Dad not being in his life - aren't mutually exclusive. It sounds like there's a lot going on with this dcb and it will take time to figure out how best to help him, especially if dcm refuses to even consider the possibilities of ADHD and food allergies. It's great that dcm is seeking counseling for her son but it could take time for him to get in for an actual appointment and given the issues involved, I doubt there will be a quick fix. Regardless of the cause, it will probably be awhile before you see any improvement in dcb's behavior. In the meantime, every child and adult in your home is at risk for injury because of his behavior. Based on what you've written, his behavior (and you say the examples you gave weren't even the worst of it???) is a huge liability for you. You've warned dcm that one more instance of aggressive behavior will be end in termination but what if he seriously hurts someone, espeically another child in your care? Personally, If it were me in this situation, I'd call her this weekend and explain that I've thought it over and can't take afford to take that risk.

[KiddieCahoots]

You mentioned something here - about your dd being good in math and really smart. Dcb is also very intelligent. I have him doing 2nd grade math, and he is going into 1st grade. I taught him multiplication this week, no problem. He gets it. I have him doing book reports - when he can focus, he writes good sentences. He just gets up 20 times in the meantime

I'm so glad your dd is well adjusted and happy. That is hopeful for this dcb. Trying to spin off of a fan would be exactly the type of thing dcb would do.

Midaycare, my ex-husband was also diagnosed with ADHD, was a math major, and extremely book smart. You could ask him random questions about something as silly as Ivory soap, and he could fill you in on all sorts of details.
Life smarts though......lacked a ton, to the point that most people didn't understand him or like him much.

Hope this info helps too

[craftymissbeth]

I don't pay him any more or less attention when he talks about his dad. I usually redirect him to something else. He doesn't make these statements to just me - it's all the kids. I don't discuss his father with him, so I don't think he would think he gets more attention that way at my house.

I think that yes, it might be a stretch that the dad is causing these issues. But on the other hand, depression in kids can come out as aggression.

Conversations with him don't help. This 6 year old spends his life grounded at home because dcm can't get him to listen to anything she says. Dcm was constantly being called to the school because of his actions.

I would term any other child like this, and one more time he acts out around the little ones, he IS gone.

I'm certain he doesn't see me as weak. He behaves better for me than anyone else. The problem is his best is still bad behavior.

Out of curiosity, why isn't HE being termed, then? What is uber special about this boy that makes his aggressive behavior more special than another kid's aggressive behavior? Not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely curious. Personally, I wouldn't wait for another time. The next time could be THE bad one, kwim? AFWIW, I don't concern myself with diagnoses.. if they're dangerous, they're dangerous.

The two issues - possible ADHD and depression over Dad not being in his life - aren't mutually exclusive. It sounds like there's a lot going on with this dcb and it will take time to figure out how best to help him, especially if dcm refuses to even consider the possibilities of ADHD and food allergies. It's great that dcm is seeking counseling for her son but it could take time for him to get in for an actual appointment and given the issues involved, I doubt there will be a quick fix. Regardless of the cause, it will probably be awhile before you see any improvement in dcb's behavior. In the meantime, every child and adult in your home is at risk for injury because of his behavior. Based on what you've written, his behavior (and you say the examples you gave weren't even the worst of it???) is a huge liability for you. You've warned dcm that one more instance of aggressive behavior will be end in termination but what if he seriously hurts someone, espeically another child in your care? Personally, If it were me in this situation, I'd call her this weekend and explain that I've thought it over and can't take afford to take that risk.

[midaycare]

Out of curiosity, why isn't HE being termed, then? What is uber special about this boy that makes his aggressive behavior more special than another kid's aggressive behavior? Not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely curious. Personally, I wouldn't wait for another time. The next time could be THE bad one, kwim? AFWIW, I don't concern myself with diagnoses.. if they're dangerous, they're dangerous.

I understand what you are saying. I am very good friends with dcm. That is why he is still here. It is because I love and care about dcm that I am willing to give dcb one more chance. I have a carefully thought out plan going forward to keep him away from the little ones. I have enough space to do this. If I see him act out again towards anyone though, he is done.

I have, since I have written this, told dcm that if she wants dcb here, she needs to pay for my assistant to come in and help with him for certain days and hours. She agreed. I'm not sure she has another choice, but you going forward he will have 1-on-1 attention.

[TwinKristi]

Midaycare, my ex-husband was also diagnosed with ADHD, was a math major, and extremely book smart. You could ask him random questions about something as silly as Ivory soap, and he could fill you in on all sorts of details.
Life smarts though......lacked a ton, to the point that most people didn't understand him or like him much.

Hope this info helps too

This describes my dh! LOL He has never been diagnosed with ADHD but also never been to the dr! He is a very smart person and actually lots of people like him but I think people also find him extremely obnoxious or annoying at times as well.