Is There a Diplomatic Way...

[childcaremom]

to approach parents about these issues?

Dcg2 is gentle parented at home. I don't know what the actual definition of this is, I just know that they ask her permission for most things and never force her to do anything she doesn't want. She is an only child, will be an only child, and is extremely doted on. Her parents marvel that she can climb the stairs (have stayed to watch this), nm that she has been doing it for months here.

I have had dcg in my care for over 1 year. This girl is quite capable of getting herself ready for the outdoors (70% of it, I assist with the parts she hasn't mastered yet). She is also quite capable of helping clean up, come to the table for snack, come for a diaper change, etc etc. She is able to be independent and do things herself and for herself. I have witnessed this many times.

But whenever I ask her to do anything, she looks at me like she doesn't understand what I am saying to her. Or as if she is waiting for me to help her (which her parents do, all the time). It doesn't matter if everyone else is doing it, she will stand there, with a blank look on her face, and not do anything. I have tried verbally prompting her, I have tried 'assisting' cleaning (hand over hand), I have tried just leaving her sit until she does it, nothing changes. In other words, she does not respond to my requests for action. Ever. Not once has she done something that I have asked her to do without her needing prompts, encouragement, assistance, etc.

She will do it. Eventually. On her own terms. If she doesn't want to do it, she will cry for help and/or just sit there. Yesterday, just as an example, she was content to sit and watch the kids play, for 15 minutes in the morning, and 20 minutes in the afternoon, before she decided to put her outdoor pants on.

I don't expect her parents to change their parenting techniques. But I can't allow dcg to 'decide' what she wants to do 100% of the time in a group setting. This has been evident for the past 2-3 months and it is getting worse, not better. Her parents are not receptive to me any time I have had to bring things up on lesser issues, never mind behavioural issues, so I am really hesitant (and nervous if I am being honest) to bring this up.

Or should I just let this go and continue to work on it from my end? Any techniques or tips to help work this out? The big thing for me (right now) is getting ready for outside. I've got a handle on how I am approaching the other areas with her.

Thanks!

[coolconfidentme]

Tell DCG you are going to start giving her consequences if she doesn't follow directions. ie.., TO. Standing their for 15 minutes is giving her control. Take the control back & give her TO for not following the rules. It will only get worse if you don't I'm afraid. Others may follow her lead as well.

If the parents question you, let them know she is now old enough to know right from wrong. Daycare is the first of many group settings that DCG will be involved in for the rest of her life. You are preparing her for those environments. School, college, job, etc. Daycare & parenting is like a game of chess. We must think many moves ahead; what we do now affects the end result. Her behavior will not be accepted as she grows & she won't grow outta it if it is accepted now. Does that make sense?

[childcaremom]

I guess this is essentially what I am doing. I don't let her not comply, unless we are going outside, at which point she must sit by the door and put her stuff on while we are playing. So not nec. a time out but a 'you can play when you get ready'. Of course, this works best when the weather is nice but I do it consistently with her, have for the past 2 months, and not getting anywhere. It has taken her upwards of 20 mins before she will start to get dressed or undressed when we come in. It has even cut into her lunch time.

It makes sense to me that I approach it this way... to me it's a natural consequence of her behaviour. But I know her parents will be upset. Would you with them about this? Or just do what I have to do?

I have run the 'she has trouble following directions' talk in my head so many different ways and can't find a diplomatic way to approach it with the parents. They are both upper management and have had a hard time realizing that I don't work for them and that my rules are my rules.

[childcaremom]

I should add that she is a new 2 (March).

It's the blank stare that gets me, like she is not computing what I am telling her. Or can't fathom being told to do something.

[Cradle2crayons]

I guess this is essentially what I am doing. I don't let her not comply, unless we are going outside, at which point she must sit by the door and put her stuff on while we are playing. So not nec. a time out but a 'you can play when you get ready'. Of course, this works best when the weather is nice but I do it consistently with her, have for the past 2 months, and not getting anywhere. It has taken her upwards of 20 mins before she will start to get dressed or undressed when we come in. It has even cut into her lunch time.

It makes sense to me that I approach it this way... to me it's a natural consequence of her behaviour. But I know her parents will be upset. Would you with them about this? Or just do what I have to do?

I have run the 'she has trouble following directions' talk in my head so many different ways and can't find a diplomatic way to approach it with the parents. They are both upper management and have had a hard time realizing that I don't work for them and that my rules are my rules.

Sometimes when I'm working on a specific topic I will do something like print a little book on helping or playing outside etc and I would casually mention "oh since he weather is pretty I'm helping the littles learn to get more independent in getting ready to go outside. Mom, here is a copy of this poem or son we are using. Dcg really loves the song. Maybe you guys could practice at home and when she masters the skills involved I'll let you know and print her a little certificate!"

Usually that's passive agressive enough for "those" types of parents.

At least then the parents know and if they ask for an update you can say so and so today.

If they don't ask, offer one once a week

I do stuff like that related to tying shoes, putting on shoes alone, using silverware, etc. Parents seem to appreciate it.

[childcaremom]

Sometimes when I'm working on a specific topic I will do something like print a little book on helping or playing outside etc and I would casually mention "oh since he weather is pretty I'm helping the littles learn to get more independent in getting ready to go outside. Mom, here is a copy of this poem or son we are using. Dcg really loves the song. Maybe you guys could practice at home and when she masters the skills involved I'll let you know and print her a little certificate!"

Usually that's passive agressive enough for "those" types of parents.

At least then the parents know and if they ask for an update you can say so and so today.

If they don't ask, offer one once a week

I do stuff like that related to tying shoes, putting on shoes alone, using silverware, etc. Parents seem to appreciate it.

Thanks! I think this might work.

[CraftyMom]

Sometimes when I'm working on a specific topic I will do something like print a little book on helping or playing outside etc and I would casually mention "oh since he weather is pretty I'm helping the littles learn to get more independent in getting ready to go outside. Mom, here is a copy of this poem or son we are using. Dcg really loves the song. Maybe you guys could practice at home and when she masters the skills involved I'll let you know and print her a little certificate!"

Usually that's passive agressive enough for "those" types of parents.

At least then the parents know and if they ask for an update you can say so and so today.

If they don't ask, offer one once a week

I do stuff like that related to tying shoes, putting on shoes alone, using silverware, etc. Parents seem to appreciate it.

I'm going to try this too, I have a similar situation with dcb 2.5

Same blank stare, but when "made" to do something he does it just fine by himself

[MotherNature]

Just wanted to commiserate. I'm all about crunchy, natural, attached parenting...but...I had a family that did this with their daughter..also just turned two. They would ask her if she wanted to get her coat on, etc..when it was snowing. They'd let her go out without shoes on in the winter, and carry her out. They were very much ' don't tell her no and if she doesn't want to do something we don't make her' types. I don't try and force kids to do stuff, like show affection, but sometimes they need to do what you asked, not b/c you're 'the boss' or need to be in control, but b/c they need shoes on the pavement outside, etc. They termed themselves, b/c mom had her 2nd baby and was staying at home for an extended period. But what I initially thought was a healthy great involvement in their child's life was soon evident to be the granola version of helicoptering. Initially I was thrilled for the involvement b/c my first family and only term was completely uninvolved and let her son run wild w/ no discipline. It got to be pretty ridiculous. She'd get a scratch..DCM would ask what kind of wood the dollhouse was made from..was it painted, treated w/ chemicals, etc. We're talking a tiny scratch...she lives on a farm ..an actual farm..w/animals, and tractor blades,and dirt, etc... Mom was pretty passive aggressive. Towardsthe last couple months, I was counting the days.. Good luck! Just stick to your rules. The dcg would constantly act like she'd forgotten the rules. Especially w/ food. Her parents let her graze allllllll day and never made her sit down w/ food. I did. She'd constantly get up and run off to play wth something, holding food or her cup. It was a constant battle.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

I guess this is essentially what I am doing. I don't let her not comply, unless we are going outside, at which point she must sit by the door and put her stuff on while we are playing. So not nec. a time out but a 'you can play when you get ready'. Of course, this works best when the weather is nice but I do it consistently with her, have for the past 2 months, and not getting anywhere. It has taken her upwards of 20 mins before she will start to get dressed or undressed when we come in. It has even cut into her lunch time.

It makes sense to me that I approach it this way... to me it's a natural consequence of her behaviour. But I know her parents will be upset. Would you with them about this? Or just do what I have to do?

I have run the 'she has trouble following directions' talk in my head so many different ways and can't find a diplomatic way to approach it with the parents. They are both upper management and have had a hard time realizing that I don't work for them and that my rules are my rules.

When I have one like this I either address it directly on their daily report, "So-and-so is having a really tough time following directions lately (ex: ----). We are working hard on mastering that skill."

or, I will address it on their little report card (assessment).

Either way, I do think it needs to be addressed. Their complete lack of parenting is making their child's life difficult outside of their home bubble.

[preschoolteacher]

Would the parents respond better if you phrased it as a skill she needs to learn in order to succeed in school? Which it is, of course.

Every month I send home a note about what we learned last month and what we will learn next month. You could have next month be all about self-help skills. You can talk it up in your newletter about how important it is... following directions is an important skill to have in school and life, the fine motor skills necessary to put on shoes and clothing are essential to successful potty training, and so on. You could even make a list of self-help tasks that are common for a 2 year old to be able to do. Things you are working with all the kids on. I would phrase it with excitement about all the great things they are going to be able to do soon.

If they see self-help skills as just as important as reading, writing, and so on, maybe they'll get on board. If they see that other kids can and will do these things, they might feel pressured to help their daughter out in these areas.

I have a few kids like this. One almost three year old never walks ANYWHERE. Parents carry this child in and out. Another almost three year old cannot climb up on a booster seat or stool. I think she's lifted everywhere.

[cheerfuldom]

I disagree a bit.....I personally would do what you are doing and not talk to the parents, only because they are not receptive and in fact, if you compare what you both are doing, I don't see that ending in anything but a confrontation. I dont approach parents unless I am insisting things be dealt with or term. For now, I have no problem with a child wasting their own time being stubborn instead of playing. it doesnt sound like her behavior is disruptive so much as annoying.

and as for this style being deemed "gentle parenting"....its not. what these parents are doing is just the classic "I dont want my baby to cry and I want her to be a baby forever" and really has nothing to do with gentle parenting. They are permissive, helicopter parents so please don't let them ruin your idea of gentle parenting type label. there ARE people that do it right!

Here is a good list of what I think gentle parenting means. It does not mean let your kid be a princess and run the house and do whatever they want. http://www.lalecheleague.org/nb/nbmayjun05p94.html

[CraftyMom]

I've had parents that never say no and give the child waaay too many choices and get overly enthusiastic over EVERYTHING the child does, literally (Yay! You put in a puzzle piece! You are awesome! You're so good at that! Give me a hug!) They don't last long here when they realize I don't do this for their child.

In moderation that's fine, and kids need positive reinforcement, but I'm talking about the ones that go overboard. A child can not make every decision, needs boundaries, needs to be told no when it's called for, and shouldn't be made to feel that everything they do is cause for a celebration. They also need independence and shouldn't rely on others to do everything for them when they are perfectly capable.

IMO this sets them up to think they can do no wrong and sets them up for social awkwardness when they can't understand why everyone isn't praising them to the high heavens for everything they do.

[daycare]

I have not had a chance to read all of the responses, but it sounds like you got the female version of a boy that just left my program a few months ago.

the child was never told NO, very cotled, PT, always on his own schedule, never wanted to be with the group and do what we were doing. If I even said after we read this book we are going to paint, instant scream crying. the child was 18 months when started, 3.5 when left. the child left with the same self help skills he came in with.

the parents of my child sound just like yours. When I would tell them that he refuses to try to put his shoes on or etc, they would say oh well you should not force him, just do it for him or we always do it for him. WELL we don't here, I have 12 kids and the idea is to teach self help skills.

Eventually I just stopped making the DCK stay with the group all but meals. So dck sat in the back room pushing a car on the floor for hours by himself and as long as we left him alone he was fine.

eventually DCM wanted to know where are the art project where are the drawings and etc. I told her that he didn't wnat to do them, and what he was doing. She got upset and said that is NOT what your program is about. So I asked her what do you expect of your child when he is only here so very PT?

The next day she gave her notice and I was happy to say good-bye to my sweet little ticking time bomb.

It could be that the parents don't expect her to do those things yet so that is why they are not on the same page as you are.

[MotherNature]

I've had parents that never say no and give the child waaay too many choices and get overly enthusiastic over EVERYTHING the child does, literally (Yay! You put in a puzzle piece! You are awesome! You're so good at that! Give me a hug!) .

Yes! This was the dcm exactly! I used to think, wow she's so gentle & patient, and then after a year of this, realized, nope, it's annoying and I don't need to praise my child or hers for every single positive action.

[childcaremom]

Would the parents respond better if you phrased it as a skill she needs to learn in order to succeed in school? Which it is, of course.

Every month I send home a note about what we learned last month and what we will learn next month. You could have next month be all about self-help skills. You can talk it up in your newletter about how important it is... following directions is an important skill to have in school and life, the fine motor skills necessary to put on shoes and clothing are essential to successful potty training, and so on. You could even make a list of self-help tasks that are common for a 2 year old to be able to do. Things you are working with all the kids on. I would phrase it with excitement about all the great things they are going to be able to do soon.

If they see self-help skills as just as important as reading, writing, and so on, maybe they'll get on board. If they see that other kids can and will do these things, they might feel pressured to help their daughter out in these areas.

I have a few kids like this. One almost three year old never walks ANYWHERE. Parents carry this child in and out. Another almost three year old cannot climb up on a booster seat or stool. I think she's lifted everywhere.

I have tried this with little success. I am going to do this again, though, and maybe even emphasize independence as a good thing. Because she does get really excited when she (finally) does stuff. Thanks!