Requested Meeting For Strong Willed Child

**EntropyControlSpecialist** · 04-07-2014, 07:04 PM

I would initiate a behavior management plan at the meeting. Give a deadline for the behavior to improve. I am offering that as a solution since you seem to be at the end of your rope with her and don't wish to continue simply tolerating the bad behavior (and I do not blame you).

I would address what you have done as well as what you need to change.

**jenboo** · 04-07-2014, 08:31 PM

How old is DCG?
Mom and dad need to set some boundaries at home. It sounds like she is she is boss of them.
Depending on age, I would:
Tell parents she needs clear rules at home and they need to follow through with them. For example, if she tells them "no" when told to do something then she gets something taken away.
If she refuses to clean up, then the other kids would continue on with their day and DCG cannot do anything until she cleans the whole mess up. I know that you cannot withhold lunch or naps but maybe tell her that she needs to clean up before she can come to the table for lunch. When it gets close to lunch being over remind her that lunch time is almost over and ask if she is choosing to skip lunch today.
Don't worry if she doesn't eat. Its not your stomach that will be growling later.
Tell her that when she doesn't listen and obey then she cannot play and has to hold your hand all day. After a few days, she will get really board.
Set a date that the behaviors need to be improved by or you will terminate. If the parents don't feel the importance of fixing her behavior then they probably wont put the energy into it.

Is all this stress really worth it to you?? These are just a few ideas but like i said, it all depends on her age.

**NightOwl** · 04-07-2014, 08:46 PM

This behavior is working for her somewhere else, so she's continuing the behavior with you. Obviously that other place is at home. She runs the show there. This is going to fall on the parents following through at home and showing her she is not in charge. When no one provides structure for a child, the child will provide the structure the best way she knows how. Thus, defiant, bossy behavior. You can do everything you possibly know to do and it will all be futile if the parents aren't on board. I agree with a deadline for serious, lasting improvement or you will term. Explain it as gently as possible that this behavior shows up when parents are much more lax than the provider, so it is confusing for the child (ami the boss or not?). And you aren't changing your practices, sooooo... It must fall on them to make changes at home.

**Leigh** · 04-07-2014, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by Brustkt

Need some discipline ideas for my strong willed dcg! I have written before about how... while in time-out, she pees her pantsThen she needs to be wearing a diaper until she stops peeing her pants. PERIOD.. Well things have just progressively gotten worse, the older she gets. Our transitions are horrible and I find that she is defying everything I ask/tell her to do. How are you addressing this? With immediate negative consequences? Today she flat out told me that I am not her boss! I would tell her that it is YOUR home, and that you make the rules, and that if she chooses not to follow those rules, then she chooses her consequence

At clean-up time she completely refuses to help and will sit and read a book and just look at me and smile. First, if she won't clean up toys, she shouldn't be playing with them. Don't let her use toys tomorrow, and tell her that she can have that privilege back when she is ready to clean up after herself. And, go over and take that book right out of her hand.At lunch time, she won't eat anythingNot your problem. Ignore it. She'll eat if she is hungry enough....at nap time she will fidget and mess with things for at least 45 min. As long as she isn't bothering the other kids, ignore it.Before she drops...then it's the same thing after nap. I'm exhausted from the struggle and when I sent an email to mom about the behavior becoming worse last week, her response was that she spoke to her pediatrician and he said her behavior is "normal" and we all just need to have more patience with her! It actually MAY be normal for a child to act this way with a parent, but the only kids I have seen act this way at daycare are the ones with a clinical diagnosis (ODD)
I haven't even touched on how sassy she is..."I'm being rude! She's not going to come back! I'm mean! No! No! No! Etc...etc...etc...What is the consequence for the sass?
I also have a (1) year old, (2) 21 month olds, (2) other 3 year olds, and (2) 4 year olds.
I don't have time for this struggle every day! Then stop letting her engage you. Matter of factly tell her that you will either do this, or have this consequence and follow through. Expect things to get worse before they get better, as it can be difficult to wrest control back from a preschooler.
I requested a meeting with her parents tomorrow and now her mother calls me crying. I told her that I'm not. Terming them, but we all need to be on the same page here and just because a pediatrician states that a child's behavior is 'normal'...it doesn't make it acceptable!
Any advice?:confused:

I tried to answer in larger letters AND in red, but that didn't work out so well!

I like Wednesday's advice, and would add that you probably need to address the need for consistency at home and at daycare and anywhere else her daughter spends a significant amount of time. Write down some rules for them, what they need to do when the rules are broken, and how to deal with resistance. It is VERY difficult to discipline your own child, sometimes it just breaks your heart to do so, but it MUST be done for the sake of the child. Tell the parents just that, as well as that they MUST be the ones directing things at home and that the more control that child has, the more anxious she will become.

**NightOwl** · 04-08-2014, 06:35 AM

And when she goes to public school, there will be no tolerating this behavior. They will put her in a special needs program ora program for children with behavior issues, not mainstream kindergarten. I bet that will get her parents attention. Deal with it now or pay the price later

**cheerfuldom** · 04-08-2014, 06:58 AM

I hope the meeting goes well. I am a little worried that you promised not to term them....I hope you dont regret that comment.

**llpa** · 04-08-2014, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by Wednesday

This behavior is working for her somewhere else, so she's continuing the behavior with you. Obviously that other place is at home. She runs the show there. This is going to fall on the parents following through at home and showing her she is not in charge. When no one provides structure for a child, the child will provide the structure the best way she knows how. Thus, defiant, bossy behavior. You can do everything you possibly know to do and it will all be futile if the parents aren't on board. I agree with a deadline for serious, lasting improvement or you will term. Explain it as gently as possible that this behavior shows up when parents are much more lax than the provider, so it is confusing for the child (ami the boss or not?). And you aren't changing your practices, sooooo... It must fall on them to make changes at home.

Couldn't have said it better! Good luck at the meeting!:hug:

**Heidi** · 04-08-2014, 07:33 AM

I'm not clear on how old this child is, but yes, this is normal behavior for some children I don't think throwing around diagnosis is a good idea. It's annoying, but she's strong willed. That doesn't mean she's got ODD.

I am also not sure what the parents are supposed to do sometimes. A lot of providers put it back on the parents to "fix", when WE are the ones in charge while those children are in our programs. Can parents influence behavior at daycare by backing us up? Sure. Can they control it? No. So, while they should be in the loop, and they should be supportive, they can't really fix what is happening while they are at work.

I think it should be made clear to dcg, once the meeting happens, that MOM, Dad, and Miss B are going to stick together. If anyone needs to discipline her in the presence of the others, then the other adults need to give a united front. Even if they don't agree with something, they should back each other up and talk about it later.

As for dcg, if you tell her to clean up, and she sits down with a book, take the book away. Sit her on a chair, and tell her she can get up when she's ready to help. Then, walk away. Let the other children clean up most of the mess, but leave her a task. Then, matter-of-factly, say "dcg, when you've cleaned up the Duplos, you can join us for lunch". That's it. If she does it, thank her for helping and move on.

Find her doing good. Lots of attention for even the smallest kindness or following directions. "Thanks for doing that right away, DCG", or "I like it when you are so nice to the little ones"

Ask her to be your helper. "DCG, can you please help me set the table for lunch?" If she says no, then say.."Oh, ok...I said please because it was a choice, thanks any way". Do NOT say please when it is time to clean up. It's not a choice...so why say "please". To me, please implies choice. That's just me, though. Some people may disagree and say it's just polite. For me, it feels more honest and less confusing to say "do it" than "oh, please, will you do it?"

I would write down these strategies and others people give you here, and then bring those out during your meeting. "This is my plan, and I thought it would be helpful for you to maybe try some of these things at home" vs.
"She's a little brat and you need to fix it".

Oh..forgot about the peeing thing. I would NOT let it faze me one bit. Sit her somewhere that she can't ruin, and if she pees, march her into the bathroom or somewhere semi-private, hand her clean clothes and a bag, and say "here you go". Take away the power of making you angry! I know it's hard, but that is her motivator. ATTENTION of any kind! So, only give it to her for positive behavior, and quell your reaction to the negative stuff.

**Cradle2crayons** · 04-08-2014, 07:50 AM

Originally posted by Heidi

I'm not clear on how old this child is, but yes, this is normal behavior for some children I don't think throwing around diagnosis is a good idea. It's annoying, but she's strong willed. That doesn't mean she's got ODD.

I am also not sure what the parents are supposed to do sometimes. A lot of providers put it back on the parents to "fix", when WE are the ones in charge while those children are in our programs. Can parents influence behavior at daycare by backing us up? Sure. Can they control it? No. So, while they should be in the loop, and they should be supportive, they can't really fix what is happening while they are at work.

I think it should be made clear to dcg, once the meeting happens, that MOM, Dad, and Miss B are going to stick together. If anyone needs to discipline her in the presence of the others, then the other adults need to give a united front. Even if they don't agree with something, they should back each other up and talk about it later.

As for dcg, if you tell her to clean up, and she sits down with a book, take the book away. Sit her on a chair, and tell her she can get up when she's ready to help. Then, walk away. Let the other children clean up most of the mess, but leave her a task. Then, matter-of-factly, say "dcg, when you've cleaned up the Duplos, you can join us for lunch". That's it. If she does it, thank her for helping and move on.

Find her doing good. Lots of attention for even the smallest kindness or following directions. "Thanks for doing that right away, DCG", or "I like it when you are so nice to the little ones"

Ask her to be your helper. "DCG, can you please help me set the table for lunch?" If she says no, then say.."Oh, ok...I said please because it was a choice, thanks any way". Do NOT say please when it is time to clean up. It's not a choice...so why say "please". To me, please implies choice. That's just me, though. Some people may disagree and say it's just polite. For me, it feels more honest and less confusing to say "do it" than "oh, please, will you do it?"

I would write down these strategies and others people give you here, and then bring those out during your meeting. "This is my plan, and I thought it would be helpful for you to maybe try some of these things at home" vs.
"She's a little brat and you need to fix it".

Oh..forgot about the peeing thing. I would NOT let it faze me one bit. Sit her somewhere that she can't ruin, and if she pees, march her into the bathroom or somewhere semi-private, hand her clean clothes and a bag, and say "here you go". Take away the power of making you angry! I know it's hard, but that is her motivator. ATTENTION of any kind! So, only give it to her for positive behavior, and quell your reaction to the negative stuff.

Completely agree. Children know the difference between daycare rules and home rules. I can't worry about home rules. But here, they follow MY rules or there are consequences.

Don't want to clean up? Cool then no toys for you until you DO start cleaning up.

Pees in time out? No problem, as pp said, here are your clothes and a wet rag. Come out when you are done.

Doesn't want to eat? No problem, sit quietly or your nap time can start early.

Acts up at pick up? No problem, bye bye outside works wonders.

Yes, I do prefer parents are on the same page. If required, I'll call a meeting and explain what I will and won't tolerate, how I'm going to handle it while they are here, and ask he parents for their support regarding how I'm handling things.

**Leigh** · 04-08-2014, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by Heidi

I'm not clear on how old this child is, but yes, this is normal behavior for some children I don't think throwing around diagnosis is a good idea. It's annoying, but she's strong willed. That doesn't mean she's got ODD.

I am also not sure what the parents are supposed to do sometimes. A lot of providers put it back on the parents to "fix", when WE are the ones in charge while those children are in our programs. Can parents influence behavior at daycare by backing us up? Sure. Can they control it? No. So, while they should be in the loop, and they should be supportive, they can't really fix what is happening while they are at work.

I think it should be made clear to dcg, once the meeting happens, that MOM, Dad, and Miss B are going to stick together. If anyone needs to discipline her in the presence of the others, then the other adults need to give a united front. Even if they don't agree with something, they should back each other up and talk about it later.

As for dcg, if you tell her to clean up, and she sits down with a book, take the book away. Sit her on a chair, and tell her she can get up when she's ready to help. Then, walk away. Let the other children clean up most of the mess, but leave her a task. Then, matter-of-factly, say "dcg, when you've cleaned up the Duplos, you can join us for lunch". That's it. If she does it, thank her for helping and move on.

Find her doing good. Lots of attention for even the smallest kindness or following directions. "Thanks for doing that right away, DCG", or "I like it when you are so nice to the little ones"

Ask her to be your helper. "DCG, can you please help me set the table for lunch?" If she says no, then say.."Oh, ok...I said please because it was a choice, thanks any way". Do NOT say please when it is time to clean up. It's not a choice...so why say "please". To me, please implies choice. That's just me, though. Some people may disagree and say it's just polite. For me, it feels more honest and less confusing to say "do it" than "oh, please, will you do it?"

I would write down these strategies and others people give you here, and then bring those out during your meeting. "This is my plan, and I thought it would be helpful for you to maybe try some of these things at home" vs.
"She's a little brat and you need to fix it".

Oh..forgot about the peeing thing. I would NOT let it faze me one bit. Sit her somewhere that she can't ruin, and if she pees, march her into the bathroom or somewhere semi-private, hand her clean clothes and a bag, and say "here you go". Take away the power of making you angry! I know it's hard, but that is her motivator. ATTENTION of any kind! So, only give it to her for positive behavior, and quell your reaction to the negative stuff.

I'm certainly not trying to diagnose ODD in this child-I just said that it is NOT normal behavior, and the only times I have dealt with kids like this, those kids had a diagnosis.

A little pushing of limits is normal, especially with parents. This is not. This child needs clear limits with clear and consistent consequences. A daycare provider will NEVER fix this behavior without the support of the parents (and the parents following the same program).

**Heidi** · 04-08-2014, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by Leigh

I'm certainly not trying to diagnose ODD in this child-I just said that it is NOT normal behavior, and the only times I have dealt with kids like this, those kids had a diagnosis.

A little pushing of limits is normal, especially with parents. This is not. This child needs clear limits with clear and consistent consequences. A daycare provider will NEVER fix this behavior without the support of the parents (and the parents following the same program).

I didn't mean to single you out. I know you're speaking from your own experience. :hug:

I just think we are way to quick now-a-days to label every bratty child with some sort of disorder. Only about 15% of children should actually have an identifiable disorder. But, the way we rush to label kids makes it seem like 85% of them have something going on. Either a disorder...or they are highly gifted.

Either way, clear and consistent expectations, kindness, and positive reinforcement are useful strategies, so we agree.

**kitykids3** · 04-08-2014, 10:59 AM

I agree with Heidi to a T. I sometimes read posts here and wonder why we try to shift everything back to the parents. If I have a kid here full time, that means I have that child most of it's waking hours. I can teach it what is acceptable here and what is not, if I am consistent. Kids know who they can pushover and who they can't. I've had some that are more strong willed than others, but sometimes ignoring some of that behavior and focusing on the positive helps. Sometimes it takes a while too. But me telling the parents to fix it isn't going to work unless it's a part time kid that gets away with everything at home, then I would tell them what I see, what I would like to see and how I am handling it. They can support me or find somewhere else. I am not changing my discipline style or rules here.
I agree tho, take the book away, no playing with toys if not picking them up. If she doesn't want to eat then she's the one hungry, etc.

**debbiedoeszip** · 04-08-2014, 11:20 AM

I would treat the time-out pants peeing like any other pants peeing. Calmly have her clean herself up and change clothes after her time-out. She seems to be doing it as retaliation and so I'd treat it with no more emotion than I would a messy sneeze.

As for the refusal to tidy up, I'd shadow her for a while and not let her move on from one activity until she's tidied up after herself first.

If she doesn't want to eat, then I'd document the fact (for the parents), but I wouldn't try to make her eat at all. She won't starve if she skips lunch. It sounds like an attention-seeking strategy to me. Don't feed that monster LOL.

Otherwise, I'd make the rules as few as possible (health, safety, and respect for others and property), but make her stick to you like glue if she won't follow them (for her or other's health, safety, and/or respect, right?). Since time-outs seem to trigger a power struggle, I'd use them as little as possible, opting instead to stay close and head off any misbehaviour at the pass. Keep her busy and physically active.

**Leigh** · 04-08-2014, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by kitykids3

I agree with Heidi to a T. I sometimes read posts here and wonder why we try to shift everything back to the parents. If I have a kid here full time, that means I have that child most of it's waking hours. I can teach it what is acceptable here and what is not, if I am consistent. Kids know who they can pushover and who they can't. I've had some that are more strong willed than others, but sometimes ignoring some of that behavior and focusing on the positive helps. Sometimes it takes a while too. But me telling the parents to fix it isn't going to work unless it's a part time kid that gets away with everything at home, then I would tell them what I see, what I would like to see and how I am handling it. They can support me or find somewhere else. I am not changing my discipline style or rules here.
I agree tho, take the book away, no playing with toys if not picking them up. If she doesn't want to eat then she's the one hungry, etc.

I understand what you are saying, but when a child doesn't have consistent boundaries at home, they will continue to push boundaries at daycare. When they get away with it just 1% of the time, that is enough incentive to keep trying. When parents AND caregivers provide clear boundaries, the child doesn't feel the need to keep pushing the limits. It is a parental issue, IMO, when a child acts this way, because if a caregiver does have boundaries that are constantly being challenged, it's often because the child "wins" in these situations at home.

Requested Meeting For Strong Willed Child

Requested Meeting For Strong Willed Child

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment