Not Logging In For This One

[Unregistered]

Don't want to openly incriminate myself, but want to know what you guys think of this.

It is now required that any and all pets in the home daycare have annual wellness checks with documentation from the veterinarian. We have two small pets (not cats or dogs) that are the kind of pet that never see a vet unless they are injured or ill, at which point they usually can't be helped and they usually die, because they are just that kind of pet. I find it ridiculous that I am expected to shell out anywhere from $48-$106 for office visits for these animals. Not to mention, one of them is not going to be easy to get there and back.

I feel like my only options are:

1. Take them into a vet as required.

2. Give them away.

3. Hide them in the bedrooms and say we no longer have them.

I feel if they are not in rooms used for daycare, it is none of the state's business. My rep says otherwise, that if they are in the home, they must have documentation for annual wellness checks. By that train of thought, then there should be no alcohol, medications, or..ahem..secret sexy things anywhere on the premises, either, whether or not they are safely stored in rooms not used for daycare.

What do you guys think? Do you have this regulation in your state?

[NoMoreJuice!]

State

Do you want to share what state you're in? That is strange...since guinea pigs and hamsters don't require vaccinations, it seems ridiculous to drag them to the vet (not to mention their life span...sorry but have to mention).

I copied/pasted our Kansas animal regs so you can compare:

K.A.R. 28-4-131. Animals, birds, or fish.

(a) When animals, birds, or fish are kept on the premises, the pet area shall be maintained in a sanitary manner. No animal or bird shall be in the kitchen while food is being prepared. Parents shall be informed whenever children have access to pets in the child care facility.

(b) Dogs and cats shall have current immunizations as recommended by a veterinarian. A record of immunizations shall be kept on file in the facility.

(c) When animals that represent a hazard to children are on the premises, children shall be protected from them. Pit bulldogs shall be prohibited. If animals are displayed as part of an animal exhibit, they shall be supervised by appropriate animal care personnel.

[craftymissbeth]

We do have a similar reg, but my licensor said with animals other than cats and dogs we can provide some sort of proof that they don't require an annual visit (or immunizations and all that). I have no clue how we prove that... a vet letter? Idk... I don't have any animals other than a dog.

I would just get the vet visits. I don't know what would happen to your daycare but in my state we would just continue getting licensing visits... every time it would go on our public record that we were out of compliance. I don't want that... so whatever my regs are I follow them.

[drseuss]

Can you talk to your rep about keeping the pets in question in a room that is completely inaccessible to your daycare children during business hours? If I were in your situation I'd at least have a conversation with my rep about it and see if she's got any suggestions. They are people too, and they understand that you don't want to have big vet bills for your hamster. I definitely wouldn't hide it, though. If your rep finds it while checking your unused rooms, you will lose her trust and she will wonder what else you are hiding.

[craftymissbeth]

Do you want to share what state you're in? That is strange...since guinea pigs and hamsters don't require vaccinations, it seems ridiculous to drag them to the vet (not to mention their life span...sorry but have to mention).

I copied/pasted our Kansas animal regs so you can compare:

K.A.R. 28-4-131. Animals, birds, or fish.

(a) When animals, birds, or fish are kept on the premises, the pet area shall be maintained in a sanitary manner. No animal or bird shall be in the kitchen while food is being prepared. Parents shall be informed whenever children have access to pets in the child care facility.

(b) Dogs and cats shall have current immunizations as recommended by a veterinarian. A record of immunizations shall be kept on file in the facility.

(c) When animals that represent a hazard to children are on the premises, children shall be protected from them. Pit bulldogs shall be prohibited. If animals are displayed as part of an animal exhibit, they shall be supervised by appropriate animal care personnel.

I'm glad you posted that reg because my licensor described it much differently than it's written. Then again she kind of interprets all of our regs how she would like them to be

[SilverSabre25]

I'm going to assume from context clues that you have birds, rodents, or some sort of tank-dwelling amphibian or reptiles. Am I right?

I'd fight that reg, honestly. No one takes those critters to the vet, as you say. I'd fight it tooth and nail. What if you have an aquarium full of fish? Who takes FISH to the vet?! No one gets check ups for pocket pets. It's just not done. They don't have vaccines, etc. What's the point? And if/when they die you sort of say "oops" and buy a new one...

Make them show you the reg stating that these animals must have annual check ups, then ask for a reference to a vet versed in caring for them. I think most vets would laugh at you for asking for a well check for your iguana. many probably would run screaming from your tarantula or ball python. And hamsters/gerbils will probably get lost in the car on the way there.

Really. That's dumb. Fight it. Or hide it.

[NoMoreJuice!]

I'm glad you posted that reg because my licensor described it much differently than it's written. Then again she kind of interprets all of our regs how she would like them to be

That makes me CRAZY! My old surveyor in western KS was a nazi (I used to have to call her supervisor in Topeka for clarification every renewal visit because I swear she would make up regs!), but since I moved to the KC area I have had nothing but lovely, cooperative surveyors who act like they are on my team! We are all just trying to provide a safe, nurturing environment for the kids; we should all be working TOGETHER.

[Blackcat31]

Don't want to openly incriminate myself, but want to know what you guys think of this.

It is now required that any and all pets in the home daycare have annual wellness checks with documentation from the veterinarian. We have two small pets (not cats or dogs) that are the kind of pet that never see a vet unless they are injured or ill, at which point they usually can't be helped and they usually die, because they are just that kind of pet. I find it ridiculous that I am expected to shell out anywhere from $48-$106 for office visits for these animals. Not to mention, one of them is not going to be easy to get there and back.

I feel like my only options are:

1. Take them into a vet as required.

2. Give them away.

3. Hide them in the bedrooms and say we no longer have them.

I feel if they are not in rooms used for daycare, it is none of the state's business. My rep says otherwise, that if they are in the home, they must have documentation for annual wellness checks. By that train of thought, then there should be no alcohol, medications, or..ahem..secret sexy things anywhere on the premises, either, whether or not they are safely stored in rooms not used for daycare.

What do you guys think? Do you have this regulation in your state?

alcohol, medications, or..ahem..secret sexy things do not carry illnesses and disease.

I am a rule follower.

I was taught that right is right....even when no one is looking.

I would NEVER be comfortable lying or hiding animals from my licensor.

[CraftyMom]

Here are the regs in MA for pets, I don't even see any mention of vet visits for dogs and cats, just licensed and vaccinated

Requirements for Pets.
. (a) If the licensee has pets in the program, they must be appropriate for the children in care. Before introducing a pet to the program, the licensee must consider the effect on the children’s health and safety, including possible allergies, and notify parents in advance, or prior to the child’s enrollment.
(b) Educators must closely supervise all interactions between children and animals and instruct children on safe behavior when in close proximity to animals.
(c) If pets are kept in the program, the educator must:
1. ensure that animals, regardless of ownership, are free from disease and parasites and are licensed and/or vaccinated as prescribed by law;
2. not allow children to take part in the cleaning of the animal’s cage;
3. keep litter boxes inaccessible to children;
4. ensure that pets are kept in a safe and sanitary manner.
(d) Children must not come into physical contact with reptiles. Reptiles in the program must be kept in accordance with Department of Public Health Guidelines.

[KSDC]

That makes me CRAZY! My old surveyor in western KS was a nazi (I used to have to call her supervisor in Topeka for clarification every renewal visit because I swear she would make up regs!), but since I moved to the KC area I have had nothing but lovely, cooperative surveyors who act like they are on my team! We are all just trying to provide a safe, nurturing environment for the kids; we should all be working TOGETHER.

I bet I know exactly who your old supervisor was! I am just a few counties away from that jurisdiction and have heard many tales... Isn't it amazing how differently one supervisor is from the next?

As for the OP - I never intentionally go against the regs. But, I would ask for a copy of the the regs that require this and make sure that what the supervisor is asking for is what is written.

[craftymissbeth]

That makes me CRAZY! My old surveyor in western KS was a nazi (I used to have to call her supervisor in Topeka for clarification every renewal visit because I swear she would make up regs!), but since I moved to the KC area I have had nothing but lovely, cooperative surveyors who act like they are on my team! We are all just trying to provide a safe, nurturing environment for the kids; we should all be working TOGETHER.

This is totally OT and I'm not trying to hijack, but at my annual visit a couple weeks ago I asked my licensor if my SA son could play in the backyard without supervision... I also asked if my 13 year old niece could help me during the summer and if she could be in the backyard with any SA kids without me. She said no to ANY SA children playing in the backyard alone and then said my niece will count in my numbers! Uh, no she won't! I questioned her about both things, so she stood her ground with SA'ers outside unsupervised and said that my niece won't count in my numbers, but WILL require ALL paperwork that daycare kids require. Ugh. I don't think either is right but I wanted her out of here.

[CraftyMom]

This is totally OT and I'm not trying to hijack, but at my annual visit a couple weeks ago I asked my licensor if my SA son could play in the backyard without supervision... I also asked if my 13 year old niece could help me during the summer and if she could be in the backyard with any SA kids without me. She said no to ANY SA children playing in the backyard alone and then said my niece will count in my numbers! Uh, no she won't! I questioned her about both things, so she stood her ground with SA'ers outside unsupervised and said that my niece won't count in my numbers, but WILL require ALL paperwork that daycare kids require. Ugh. I don't think either is right but I wanted her out of here.

Here, kids 5 or older can play outside alone in a fenced-in yard (4 foot fence) with a signed consent form from parents, they have to be checked on every 15minutes

[KSDC]

This is totally OT and I'm not trying to hijack, but at my annual visit a couple weeks ago I asked my licensor if my SA son could play in the backyard without supervision...

Here is the Kansas reg about SA outdoor. It is part of the regs that started in 2012.
For each child five years of age and older, the provider may permit the child to go
unattended to the facility’s designated outdoor play area on the premises if all of the following conditions are met:
(A) The designated play area on the premises is enclosed with a fence.
(B) The provider determines that the area is free of any potential hazards to
the health and safety of the child.
(C) The provider remains within hearing distance of the child.
(D) The provider visually checks on the child and responds as necessary to meet the needs of the child.


So, if your back yard is fenced in AND if you have a window open so that you can hear the SA children, then you can let them go outside without you.

[daycarediva]

What state are you in??? That seems very excessive, imho.

All of my cats are required to be UTD on immunizations, I even had to get a signed statement from the vet saying I buy flea/tick treatments from him for all of my cats.

I have a snake as well, no access to daycare kids, and she didn't even ask about him when she was here two weeks ago. She saw him, but said "ewww" and walked on. LOL!

DD had a hamster, nobody said a word about it.

DS has a betta fish, nobody has said a word about it.

[NoMoreJuice!]

No way

This is totally OT and I'm not trying to hijack, but at my annual visit a couple weeks ago I asked my licensor if my SA son could play in the backyard without supervision... I also asked if my 13 year old niece could help me during the summer and if she could be in the backyard with any SA kids without me. She said no to ANY SA children playing in the backyard alone and then said my niece will count in my numbers! Uh, no she won't! I questioned her about both things, so she stood her ground with SA'ers outside unsupervised and said that my niece won't count in my numbers, but WILL require ALL paperwork that daycare kids require. Ugh. I don't think either is right but I wanted her out of here.

No way could I keep my SA kids cooped up inside with the toddlers. My surveyor says as long as I can hear them (leave a window open) kids 5 and up can play unsupervised in the backyard. That is exactly what it says in black and white in the regulations (see below).

I'm grumpy enough about stuff like that to call Topeka for clarification.




K.A.R. 28-4-115a. Supervision.

(d) Outdoor supervision requirements. When any child is outdoors, each provider shall ensure that all of the following requirements are met, in addition to the requirements of subsection (b):

(1) For each child under five years of age, the provider shall be outdoors at all times and remain within sight of and in proximity to each child, watching and directing the activities of the child.

(2) For each child five years of age and older, the provider may permit the child to go unattended to the facility’s designated outdoor play area on the premises if all of the following conditions are met:

(A) The designated play area on the premises is enclosed with a fence.

(B) The provider determines that the area is free of any potential hazards to the health and safety of the child.

(C) The provider remains within hearing distance of the child.

(D) The provider visually checks on the child and responds as necessary to meet the needs of the child.


PS:
K.A.R. 28-4-117. Health care requirements for children under 16 years of age.

(a) (1) A completed medical record on a form supplied by the department shall be on file for each child under 11 years of age enrolled for care and for each child under 16 living in the child care facility.