Time Out and Nap Issues

[Cat Herder]

. A specific plan of action is most definitely what I need.

IME, that is only accomplished by having a conference with the parents to come up with a discipline plan, together. At a critical point, where termination is on the table, this is the recommended course of action.

The parents need to understand his behavior is beyond "age appropriate" and is disruptive to the entire program. They "should" (according to new training this year) be given the opportunity to offer specific consequences for his behaviors as well. This is the time for you to also introduce consequences for the parents if they do not follow through on their end.

[daycare]

I would have to agree that this would also be necessary to get the parents involved. You are the only one that really sees how bad this situation is. We can only give you suggestions.

It may just be that this child needs more special care and help than you can give in a group setting, which is no fault to you at all. As a provider we can only do so much and I know a lot of us go through tons of measures trying to help kids all the time.

I hope that you are able to find a way to get through to this child or that you are able to help the parents get the help this child needs. If you can't, again, not your fault. We can't make a child be who parents won't help them become or help a child who's parents aren't willing to help.

Hugs to you for dealing with this.

[My3cents]

Stop using time outs. They honestly are not productive IME and especially not for kids under 4.

What is he doing that warrants the TO? Just wondering...I'm interested in the details of what happens before he "earns" himself a TO.

Ok, not what is he doing that warrants the TO but what happened right before he stripped his clothes off?


I may have some strategies to get him on track. I HAD this child. Like literally gave birth to him. That's why I am a daycare provider instead of a lawyer, like I wanted to be. Well...my child didn't strip but he did other things that were similar...

please share your ideas~

[My3cents]

I have a 3 yo dcb who will not sit in TO. He immediately tries to jump out of the chair and run off.

He's this child:

https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69431

Today he stripped naked (I can't find any footed pajamas in our local Wal-Mart bigger than a 12m and dcm said she only has fleece ones and those are "too hot") again today and I immediately put him TO and told said "everyone has to have clothes on here. You can get up when you're ready to put them back on". As soon as his bottom hit the chair he was up and running.. flailing like a mad man. I continued to pick him up and put him back... over and over and over until I finally gave him three options: put your clothes back on, sit in the TO chair, or go lay down in a PNP. He still just screamed, flailed, and tried to relax his body so he could slip out of my grip. I put him in the PNP, but then he climbs out.

The stripping thing will be taken care of. DCM will be told that until he stops that crazy business of stripping that he will only be accepted into care if he comes already in a pair of backwards footed pajamas.

My big issue is what in the world do you do with a child who will NOT sit in TO?

Also, today during nap he kept trying to run away so he didn't have to sleep on his nap mat. Well, here in my DC, if they cannot lay nicely on a nap mat then they have to sleep in a PNP. No options. He screamed, stripped, and climbed out of the PNP repeatedly.

How do I get this child to do the following:
A) stay in TO when I decide it's necessary for him to be in TO
B) either sleep on his nap mat nicely or sleep in a PNP nicely

:confused:

I like the word NO! I would put him back in time out and tell him No you stay here! If he doesn't stay I would sit with him for those three minutes. Every time being consistent. I would talk with the parents and find out what is working at home for them. IF they say nothing, then right there is a red flag. They let him run the home. A lot of kids do you know~ but that would give you an idea of how to move forward with the little guy. Kids are resilient and very smart, smarter then most give them credit for. He most likely is capable of learning that the rules at your house are different from the rules at his house. Consistency is the key and its going to exhaust you for a few weeks until one day it triggers in his head, that he can't do that at your home.
I would insist Mom feed the child before bringing him to you and then meal time would be when meal times are. I wouldn't worry if he ate or not, unless you thought he had issues from eating and then I would want the parent to bring the child to the Dr and a note back to me explaining what is going on with that. He will figure out quick that meal times are for eating. If he got up I would put him in a high chair and buckle him into it. Most likely he is looking for you to set the boundaries and be in control and consistent. I also would keep this kiddo busy during the rest of the day. If things didn't improve I would let the child go- I was once told mark my calendar and if after thirty days I felt the same way about the child it was time for the child to move on- and that is ok.

Good luck. I feel your stress. I also like the other ideas and look forward to more. Sometimes one thing doesn't work but something else will and it all depends on the child and you know the child best at this point and what might work and what won't.

The stripping thing.......is the child hot? Some kids are hotter then others. You might keep your home warmer then the home he comes from. Is he too big for a onsie? I would just catch him and put the clothes back on him- takes away from his play time and tell him no every time.

[craftymissbeth]

I talked to dcm yesterday at pick-up. He's required to come in backwards pajamas from now on. At home apparently he jumps out of TO also, but she put his TO chair inside of a superyard and she stands outside of it with her back turned to him (she said so that she's not just sitting there staring at him). I told her that I will consider trying that since I have a superyard also, but that I'll have to think about it.

She said he usually goes straight to nap time when she tells him to, but that there are days that he throws tantrums and refuses to sleep. She said she puts him in bed over and over until he finally stays there. She also said that they've put "the fear of God" in dcb and that he knows that when he misbehaves he'll be disciplined.

From talking to dcm I truly believe that they discipline him and that they want this fixed, but I'll never know if they're 100% consistent, kwim?

My plan is:
-Backwards footed pajamas until I've gained control of the situation and until I see that he doesn't even make attempts at stripping anymore
-Buckled in the high chair during meals (I'm curious to hear advice on whether I should let him up and back to the playroom when he's ready to get up... I've been letting him go back to the playroom when he says he's done eating. His food gets thrown out immediately and he doesn't get to eat again until the next meal/snack)
-Nap time he will have the option of sleeping on the nap mat or the PNP. Totally his choice, but he WILL lay down. I'd like to say that dcm will need to pick him up if he throws a huge tantrum like he did yesterday... the other kids had a hard time sleeping through it.

I'm all for figuring out kids emotional needs, but I feel like this dcb is on a power trip set off from potty training. I told dcm that potty training isn't going to happen here until the behavior is fixed. Changing his pull-up is a fight... let alone trying to actually get him to go on the toilet. She agreed and has stopped potty training at home, too.

I try to talk to him while he's calm.. not just about all of the issues but ANYTHING.. and that starts a tantrum. He's on a power trip and he needs to learn FAST that I'm not having it.

[grandmom]

My big issue is what in the world do you do with a child who will NOT sit in TO?


:confused:

In my opinion TO is a contest of the wills and the adult never wins. Remove him from the activity, or remove the toy from him. Then go on with the day.

I don't know how I could deal with a naked boy in my program. Nannyde will have great advice on this issue. But I'd order the jammies on Amazon overnight delivery if I had to.

[hwichlaz]

I've been known to use locking diaper pins to pin their tucked in shirt or onsie to the waist of their pants, .

[craftymissbeth]

In my opinion TO is a contest of the wills and the adult never wins. Remove him from the activity, or remove the toy from him. Then go on with the day.

I don't know how I could deal with a naked boy in my program. Nannyde will have great advice on this issue. But I'd order the jammies on Amazon overnight delivery if I had to.

But the issue usually stems from activities that are not negotiable.... eating, sleeping, and pull-up changing. This week I have curbed tantrums due to other issues for the most part.

[craftymissbeth]

I've been known to use locking diaper pins to pin their tucked in shirt or onsie to the waist of their pants, .

While that's a unique idea, I'm sure this dcb would pull until the fabric rips. These aren't typical tantrums.

[hwichlaz]

But the issue usually stems from activities that are not negotiable.... eating, sleeping, and pull-up changing. This week I have curbed tantrums due to other issues for the most part.

Lots of notice/warning can help. A 5 min warning, 3 min, 1 min etc. A toy to hold during a diaper change (I'd refuse pull ups, those are for big kids that at least try to use the potty) etc. Also, maybe a playpen with slanted sides, so it's harder to climb out of.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009F52YCS/ref=s9_simh_gw_p75_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0R3047SQ0M7S13GGWSGX&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1688200382&pf_rd_i=507846

or
one that zips shut

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/91%2BtwJ6LYWL._SL1500_.jpg

[craftymissbeth]

Lots of notice/warning can help. A 5 min warning, 3 min, 1 min etc. A toy to hold during a diaper change (I'd refuse pull ups, those are for big kids that at least try to use the potty) etc. Also, maybe a playpen with slanted sides, so it's harder to climb out of.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009F52YCS/ref=s9_simh_gw_p75_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0R3047SQ0M7S13GGWSGX&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1688200382&pf_rd_i=507846

or
one that zips shut

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg

That's great advice but I'm not buying a new PNP for a 3 yo

The pull ups don't bother me either... to me they're the same as a diaper but just pull on.

ETA: I checked out the second PNP you posted and I might as well lock him a closet

[hwichlaz]

I have the 2nd one for the back patio because mosquitoes come out really early in the day here, . Our whole town is on a lake.

[craftymissbeth]

I have the 2nd one for the back patio because mosquitoes come out really early in the day here, . Our whole town is on a lake.

Oh yeah it would be nice for outdoors.

[Blackcat31]

This is a good handout...

http://studentsfirstproject.org/wp-content/uploads/SchoolandClassroomODDStrategies.pdf

It may not be his diagnosis but it has some good strategies for managing similar behaviors. It mentions the token/reward system for supporting and reinforcing positive behaviors like I mentioned in regards to my own child.

I also PM'ed you again too.

[craftymissbeth]

This is a good handout...

http://studentsfirstproject.org/wp-content/uploads/SchoolandClassroomODDStrategies.pdf

It may not be his diagnosis but it has some good strategies for managing similar behaviors. It mentions the token/reward system for supporting and reinforcing positive behaviors like I mentioned in regards to my own child.

I also PM'ed you again too.

Awesome! Thank you!