Help Me With Hitting, Positive Reinforcement System

[Blackcat31]

What do you do when you have a child that is older, say 4, almost 5 yr old and they hit and misbehave and you tell them to sit or go in time out and they say No. As a provider there is nothing we can further do to make the child go sit or go in time out. I have a dcb like this and when I tell him to sit or go sit in time out he will tell me no and turn away. You can't force him physically to sit or go in time out, so I am at a loss as how to handle him when he hits or misbehaves. I have talked with his parents and they know what he does and he also hits his sister at home, but they are the parents so they can discipline more then I can here.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

That is my issue. That I can not physically pick him up knowing I would be cited for doing that. As a provider these days we have to be SO careful on what we do and so that is my issue. I have thought about calling the parents, but have not had the guts to do yet as I try to handle the situation myself. I feel as tho I should not call parents just for their child not listening to me about sitting in time out as they will think that I can not handle their child and that I must not be a good daycare provider if I call them every time their child misbehaves and won't do a time out. Also parents can't get off of work to come get their child. I run a small daycare and only have 3 kids, so I am not in a center setting and I try to make my daycare feel like home for the kids and more of a personal type place, so that is part of my issue also.

My own kids were taught to behave and we didn't allow them to act like that when they were growing up and never ever acted like the dck's I have now. My husband & I believe in discipline and our boys never had any issues of any kind growing up, but today's kids are so different as it seems their is no discipline at home and they think that they can just get away with things and their parents won't do anything. And as providers it is hard for us to do much as we are told that we can not do much disciplining of any kind or we get in trouble, so we are stuck between a rock and a hard place, so to speak. So I just do the best I can with dealing with issues here and that is about all I can do. I just keep talking to the parents about him and hope that something works soon.

The parents are already aware of the fact that he does not listen and that he hits.

They are not going to think you are a bad provider because you can't handle their mess...kwim?

I think that too many providers have that thought process happening in their minds...."if we call a parent to pick up it must mean we aren't competent providers".... It does NOT mean that.

We are bound by licensing rules and cannot do things that go against our regulations and I truly believe that a physical power struggle is something our state regs are clear about not doing.

I think you need to have a sit down conference with the parents and put a plan in place for what to do when he hits and then refuses to go to time out.

The parents need to be the ones to come up with a plan that leaves them doing the majority of the work and be the ones who give the most.

They can't shove the issue off onto you when you are caring for a group of children. Plus they made this issue, they have to do the work to fix it.

It doesn't matter if they can or can't get off work to pick him up. He is their child, therefore he is THEIR responsibility. They can't just leave you to deal with their doings.

You are at work too and trying to do a good job being a provider. What makes their job any more important than yours?

[spinnymarie]

I agree that the parents definitely know that their child is overly defiant, and that it is no slight against you --- even if they pretend that it is your problem, it most certainly is not.

If a child refused to go to time out, I'd offer a choice of time out or a greater consequence: You can go to time out now, or you will not be allowed to play with my toys for the rest of the day (or something similar) you will not participate in our art project, etc etc etc. and finally, at the end of the line, you can go to time out now or I can call your mom to take you home - either way you will not be allowed to play with our friends and toys right now. If you choose time out, you will be allowed to come back, if you choose for me to call your mom, you cannot come back and play today.

[Unregistered]

So if a 2.5 year old who knows better is frequently being rough, and is not willing to sit out for a break, then what.

I'm open to new ideas.

[My3cents]

I agree that the parents definitely know that their child is overly defiant, and that it is no slight against you --- even if they pretend that it is your problem, it most certainly is not.

If a child refused to go to time out, I'd offer a choice of time out or a greater consequence: You can go to time out now, or you will not be allowed to play with my toys for the rest of the day (or something similar) you will not participate in our art project, etc etc etc. and finally, at the end of the line, you can go to time out now or I can call your mom to take you home - either way you will not be allowed to play with our friends and toys right now. If you choose time out, you will be allowed to come back, if you choose for me to call your mom, you cannot come back and play today.

This can backfire. You will get the child that says call my mom. I don't recommend this. Call Mom if you have exhausted all efforts but not as a choice for the child to make.

When a child smells a power struggle they will run with it, when you take the power out of it, often the problem can be solved. I use this often......... Let me know when your done having a fit/melt down. I walk away from the tantrum. Makes the child think about the actions. I also talk with parents at pick up and say look little kiddo would not listen to me today at all. He refused to go to time out. I don't expect parents to fix what is going on at my home, but I ask them if they can work on it at home, or offer any suggestions and I ask them to talk to the child.

[Blackcat31]

So if a 2.5 year old who knows better is frequently being rough, and is not willing to sit out for a break, then what.

I'm open to new ideas.

I don't think a 2.5 yr old does know better. At that age, they are just learning about impulse control and the fact that they DO have control over that.

I also don't think that time out is an appropriate method of discipline to use for a 2 yr old. At that age, being asked to simply leave the group or activity when he gets rough would be a good way to teach him that when he is rough, he can't play.

ANY type of discipline that includes a natural consequence is something I support.

Getting rough = can't play (whatever)
Hitting our friends = not playing with friends

Maybe have him shadow you for a certain amount of time. Point out and positively praise other kids when you see them playing nicely. Point it out to DCB as what you expect from him as well.

At that age, discipline and guidance is more of an ongoing thing where teaching them how to manage frustrations, impulse control and negative behaviors should just be something that is embedded into your daily routine.

I am sure there are plenty of providers and parents who have had success using time out. I just don't feel as though it is an adequate tool to teach children.

Time out is a punishment. When children younger than 3 misbehave, it is usually because they have little control over their feelings, have limited vocabularies and communication skills and really don't know "better".

I would rather teach them something while guiding them to play properly verses punishing them for being 2.

[daycare]

I don't think a 2.5 yr old does know better. At that age, they are just learning about impulse control and the fact that they DO have control over that.

I also don't think that time out is an appropriate method of discipline to use for a 2 yr old. At that age, being asked to simply leave the group or activity when he gets rough would be a good way to teach him that when he is rough, he can't play.

ANY type of discipline that includes a natural consequence is something I support.

Getting rough = can't play (whatever)
Hitting our friends = not playing with friends

Maybe have him shadow you for a certain amount of time. Point out and positively praise other kids when you see them playing nicely. Point it out to DCB as what you expect from him as well.

At that age, discipline and guidance is more of an ongoing thing where teaching them how to manage frustrations, impulse control and negative behaviors should just be something that is embedded into your daily routine.

I am sure there are plenty of providers and parents who have had success using time out. I just don't feel as though it is an adequate tool to teach children.

Time out is a punishment. When children younger than 3 misbehave, it is usually because they have little control over their feelings, have limited vocabularies and communication skills and really don't know "better".

I would rather teach them something while guiding them to play properly verses punishing them for being 2.

I agree with this. 100%

with my under 2 group I try to be as proactive as I can. I play with this group quite a bit. I talk a lot about, we are friends we can share it makes us feel happy. I talk about how words can hurt and hitting hurts.

I show them and talk to them about what I expect from their behavior. If they hit, I tell them No, hitting is not nice. We hug it out and say, Johnny/Sal is your friends we are gentle with our friends, hitting hurts, we use gentle touches with our friends. When someone takes your toy away you can come ask me for help or use your words.

You have to give them words to use. Some kids can't verbalize their feelings just yet. If you see a child is sad, you can help them identify by saying, I see you are feeling sad, can you show/tell me why? This gives them an understanding/definition of the words.

Remain calm when it happens, be supportive, they are still learning. If children see your frustration/anger it may escalate the matter.

You need to demonstrate and model appropriate behaviors and interactions. Try to play games that promote positive behavior. We play holding hands games alot, sing we are friends and talk about how we treat friends all the time. Hitting is not a big issue here, our biggest issues is not using words, which again is typical for 2's.

When I see them hit, I might look at the hitter and say are you feeling angry? Let's use our words not our hands. Say sorry, give hugs, we are friends and move on.

Most kids this age have not yet learned to handle their emotions when they get upset, angery, etc.