What is Fair?

[preschoolteacher]

Another thread about what it's like growing up as the child of a daycare provider got me thinking...

How important is it to you that treat your kids and the daycare kids "fairly"? By fair, I mean things like... if your son is riding his bike, you either make him give the daycare kids a turn or make him wait until they leave to ride it. If your child has a sore throat you give them a Popsicle, you then give all the daycare kids a Popsicle. When is it okay to acknowledge that this is YOUR child in YOUR house, and sometimes a little special treatment from mom is okay? Where do you draw the line?

Recently, I have been feeding my son dinner at 5 PM. I have a few kids who don't leave until 5:30 PM. My son really needs dinner at 5 PM because he has been going to bed at 6:30 PM, and he honestly is just very hungry at that time. (We've been trying to get him to go to bed later, but he just tends to sleep 6:30 PM-6:30 AM no matter what I do.) The other daycare kids occasionally ask for dinner too when they see him eating, and I explain that their parents are coming soon and they can eat at home. Is that wrong?

[Kabob]

Another thread about what it's like growing up as the child of a daycare provider got me thinking...

How important is it to you that treat your kids and the daycare kids "fairly"? By fair, I mean things like... if your son is riding his bike, you either make him give the daycare kids a turn or make him wait until they leave to ride it. If your child has a sore throat you give them a Popsicle, you then give all the daycare kids a Popsicle. When is it okay to acknowledge that this is YOUR child in YOUR house, and sometimes a little special treatment from mom is okay? Where do you draw the line?

Recently, I have been feeding my son dinner at 5 PM. I have a few kids who don't leave until 5:30 PM. My son really needs dinner at 5 PM because he has been going to bed at 6:30 PM, and he honestly is just very hungry at that time. (We've been trying to get him to go to bed later, but he just tends to sleep 6:30 PM-6:30 AM no matter what I do.) The other daycare kids occasionally ask for dinner too when they see him eating, and I explain that their parents are coming soon and they can eat at home. Is that wrong?

I was the child of a daycare provider and one of the biggest things I remember was how the other kids were always in MY stuff. Yes there were daycare toys but they would go in my room and take my toys and refuse to let me play with my own toys since they were "cooler" than the daycare toys. I vowed never to force ds to share his toys or room. If he wants to go in his room and play with his toys, I don't make him share his room or toys and while I don't usually let him take his toys out of his room during daycare hours I don't make him share his toy if he does. All the kids have always understood this rule. I tell them that they don't have to share their toys with daycare so neither does ds. Makes sense to them. Also if he is hungry for dinner then he gets to eat...it's not his fault the other kids are here 10 hours a day. If I enrolled him in daycare there is no way I'd keep him there 10 or more hours a day. He still is expected to follow the rules when in daycare space but otherwise even he needs a break from daycare. Often dh will take ds to another room for some special daddy time. It helps. He needs his space or else by the end of the day he is so done with daycare that he literally tries to help the last kid get dressed to leave early and starts waving goodbye before her parent even gets here....

[Jack Sprat]

Sorry I don't mean this to sound rude at all. But, life isn't fair. And yes, there are different rules for different people. I know this is hard for little people to grasp but, the sooner they get they easier life can be.

With that said I would ask parents how they feel about their kids eating with your child. During the summer we eat very early since we have ball games. I just let parents know we are eating early that day and if their child is hungry and they are okay with it I will offer them food as well. All of my parents have been okay with this. One family even offered to pay extra since the meal isn't included in the food program. As far as bikes etc. We have daycare bikes, and our personal bikes. Just like our toys, books etc.

[Blackcat31]

For me personally....I left the child care I was in because the provider treated her children like her children.

I know that sounds bad, but honestly... I understood. I got it.

My kids didn't understand and it got tough to continually have to explain the logic behind her actions..... even if they understood, it didn't feel good to them so we quit.

I knew how difficult that was for parents to deal with so me, personally, I tried REALLY hard to make sure MY kid did not receive special treatment while daycare was in session. I made sure that I held them accountable when they got in trouble...etc because unlike the DCK's I KNEW mine were raised to know better etc...

Plus, I always worried that a DCK would go home and tell their mom/dad that MY child got "special" and that was never a conversation I wanted to have with DCF's......because I KNEW what it felt like to be on their end of the convo.

That is MY personal perspective and how I personally handled this issue when my kids were young. Of course, my kids had the luxury of simply going home if they didn't want to be at daycare so that is something else to consider too.

[Maria2013]

I agree with BC
...my kids can be totally separate from the daycare if they want to be, but if they chose to be among the kids I care for, they know, they have to follow the very same rules

[Kabob]

For me personal....I left the child care I was in because the provider treated her children like her children.

I know that sounds bad, but honestly... I understood. I got it.

My kids didn't understand and it got tough to continually have to explain the logic behind her actions..... even if they understood, it didn't feel good to them we quit.

I knew how difficult that was for parents to deal with so me, personally, I tried REALLY hard to make sure MY kid did not receive special treatment while daycare was in session. I made sure that I held them accountable when they got in trouble...etc because unlike the DCK's I KNEW mine were raised to know better etc...

Plus, I always worried that a DCK would go home and tell their mom/dad that MY child got "special" and that was never a conversation I wanted to have with DCF's......because I KNEW what it felt like to be on their end of the convo.

That is MY personal perspective and how I personally handled this issue when my kids were young. Of course, my kids had the luxury of simply going home if they didn't want to be at daycare so that is something else to consider too.

I get what you're saying and I agree...but I don't think that a child should be forced to share personal space and toys with daycare. Ds is expected to follow daycare rules during daycare and eat the daycare meals and so forth. But making him share his bike (when he gets one) would be too much...that was a gift to him and it's not his fault I chose to run a daycare in his home. Now if it was a bike I bought specifically for daycare then yes, he would have to share it. But I would never let the daycare kids into his room or make him give them a toy that he got from grandma. I don't see that as special treatment since I don't require the dck to bring a toy from home to share and if they brought a toy (some have a lovey) then I don't let the other kids (including my own) take it from them if they don't want to share...but I will put away said toy if they constantly argue about it. Same with ds...if he is causing a distraction with a toy of his then it goes back to his room behind a closed door. I don't need the headache.

Some days I think I'm more tough on my son because I don't worry about him going home and telling mommy I wasn't fair or I was "mean". I'm right here.

[Blackcat31]

I get what you're saying and I agree...but I don't think that a child should be forced to share personal space and toys with daycare. Ds is expected to follow daycare rules during daycare and eat the daycare meals and so forth. But making him share his bike (when he gets one) would be too much...that was a gift to him and it's not his fault I chose to run a daycare in his home. Now if it was a bike I bought specifically for daycare then yes, he would have to share it. But I would never let the daycare kids into his room or make him give them a toy that he got from grandma. I don't see that as special treatment since I don't require the dck to bring a toy from home to share and if they brought a toy (some have a lovey) then I don't let the other kids (including my own) take it from them if they don't want to share...but I will put away said toy if they constantly argue about it. Same with ds...if he is causing a distraction with a toy of his then it goes back to his room behind a closed door. I don't need the headache.

Some days I think I'm more tough on my son because I don't worry about him going home and telling mommy I wasn't fair or I was "mean". I'm right here.

See, and allowing him to ride his bike when the others are present would be wrong (for ME) because if you didn't do daycare, he would be AT daycare and not be able to ride his bike.

If he was in his room and playing, it isn't fair that the other kids can't do it too. If you didn't do daycare, he wouldn't be home to be able to play in his room either.

You are also right that it isn't his fault that you are choosing to do daycare but why should the other kids feel left out or that your child gets special because you do have a daycare?
It isn't the DCK's faults that their moms didn't choose to do daycare.

(FWIW~ I am NOT arguing with you. I am only playing devil's advocate here.... I shared MY personal opinion already so I am NOT trying to force anyone to agree. )

[preschoolteacher]

It is so hard to balance! I agree with having your kids follow the same rules and have the same expectations. But some things are just special. And it's my kid's home. There is only 1 hour of each work day when he's awake and there are no kids here.

On the other hand, when I was young my neighbor watched us and I know she treated her kids like hers. I remember feeling bad, unwanted, a burden. Sad for the child who spends so much time in a place that makes them feel that way.

[kendallina]

I don't let my preschoolers into my daughter's bedroom or to play with her toys.

She's allowed to go play anywhere in the house with whatever she would like, but she may not bring her stuff into preschool (even when she says she wants to share, it never goes well, so we don't even go there). Also, she's allowed to get a snack whenever she wants, but I have her eat it away from the other kids. She'll sometimes watch a tv show upstairs during preschool (the kids have no idea and she knows to keep quiet about it! ).

But, if she's in the preschool room, she must behave as the preschoolers, participate in our activities, eat our snacks, etc. She is not allowed to ride her bike or even show them that she gets 'special' treatment, like extra snacks, etc. The kids just know that sometimes she's off in another room, "taking a break".

I wouldn't allow her to do these things in front of the other kids. Not because it's not fair (it's not fair but that doesn't bother me), but because I think it's unkind.

[Kabob]

See, and allowing him to ride his bike when the others are present would be wrong (for ME) because if you didn't do daycare, he would be AT daycare and not be able to ride his bike.

If he was in his room and playing, it isn't fair that the other kids can't do it too. If you didn't do daycare, he wouldn't be home to be able to play in his room either.

You are also right that it isn't his fault that you are choosing to do daycare but why should the other kids feel left out or that your child gets special because you do have a daycare?
It isn't the DCK's faults that their moms didn't choose to do daycare.

(FWIW~ I am NOT arguing with you. I am only playing devil's advocate here.... I shared MY personal opinion already so I am NOT trying to force anyone to agree. )

I know and I just love a good debate.

Anyway, I see what you're saying, however, none of those kids are forced to go with their parents to work. When they are home, they don't have to worry about other kids grabbing their stuff unless they have siblings. Dck are not siblings.

And when dck are at daycare, they don't have to worry about sharing their personal space (like a bedroom) or mommy. It's hard to define to a toddler why mommy has all these kids coming in what once was their house. Dck are spoiled in the sense the they don't have to "work" with mommy. If mommy works long hours they still get to go home and go nuts while a provider's child has to watch mommy work those long hours.

I feel that while I have to have ds follow all the rules of daycare, he still deserves a break since he is also "working". Would he need that break if I had my day care in a separate location or if I sent him to a daycare? No. He's not working there...he can relax and not worry about watching the fuzzy lines between personal time and daycare time. Even though the daycare rules are almost identical to house rules (with the exceptions being small like being allowed to eat in the living room), it is still tough to define daycare hours versus personal hours.

By the way, if ds is becoming disruptive by playing in his room, then he is done in there. For him, like I said, it is his break room...every "worker" deserves a break but I choose the location. And if a daycare child were to bring their bike would I make them share it? Nope. But the same rule applies as it would to my son: if it's disruptive then it is put away.

I honestly wish I had a separate space for daycare as ds is growing older...he clearly doesn't like sharing the house with the other kids as he is growing older...so I've compromised by letting him play separate with daddy or in his room when he starts getting "over worked." Maybe that's just my kid...maybe that's me. If he wasn't living here, I'd suggest his parents shorten his day by at least an hour since that last hour of his 10 hour day clearly wears on him...

[cheerfuldom]

This is why it is essential to have a dedicated daycare space. I personally would not allow my children to attend a home daycare where there was not separate daycare areas because I understand the dilemmas for provider and their children when daycare kids enter the home and have access to the whole home and all the toys that belong to the providers children. The exception to this rule was if it was a nanny type situation where the provider doesn't need a separate space and has fewer kids to negotiate these scenarios.

For me, I feed my kids preferably when the daycare kids leave however, they do sometimes eat dinner during daycare hours. I have never had a parent comment that this bothered them, although it might. If my kids are eating, I will offer the daycare kids a small snack (like a handful of cheerios so as not to spoil their dinner) only if the daycare kids are upset that others are eating. 99% of the time they do not notice or care.

For the bike situation, we would all go outside together. i have my kids bikes and I have other bikes for my daycare kids. Everyone has something to ride and I do not force my kids to share their personal items. The daycare kids have something to use so again, I think that is a fair compromise.

For the popsicle situation, I would have my kid go somewhere private to eat their treat where the daycare kids did not see although I generally try to avoid that situation all together.

I do think that if parents are using a home daycare, they have to remember and respect that this is a home and a business. There will be areas of the house that their kids cannot go and items that their kids do not have access to and things in the fridge that their kid can't eat. I don't promise that I will love these kids like my own nor do I promise that all the kids will be treated the exact same way. I do strive to be fair, but the kids here are not equal. My kids ARE special to me because they are mine. And I am not going to act like they are just like the daycare kids during daycare hours because they are still special to me no matter what time of day it is. They may get a little special treatment here and there but I do my best for it to be done in a way that is not obvious or hurtful to the daycare families. I keep that mantra "Fair does not mean everything is equal" even with my own four kids. They won't all get the exact same bike, the exact same treat, the exact same meal all the time. I personally have issue with parents and providers that try to make things equal. This sets up a scenario that can never be replicated in the real world.

[Second Home]

My kids rooms are on a different floor than the daycare , none of the dck are allowed in my kids rooms . That is their personal space , but if my child decides to bring one of their toys downstairs then they must be willing to share with the dck .
My kids will eat the same foods and snacks . But I also do not force them to stay downstairs with the dck , they can get away from all the commotion and spend time in their rooms .

Things like bikes have to wait until the dck are gone .

I will add that all kids , mine included follow the same rules .

[Kabob]

P.S. - I thought about it and what I think as fair and unfair may be biased. Like I said, I was a daycare child and I have my own child in my daycare.

I would be upset if I brought my child to a daycare where the provider's child didn't discipline their child but I wouldn't be upset if their child was allowed to play in their room. If I wanted a more unbiased feel then I'd go to a daycare provider that didn't have their own children there or a center or to one that was operated out of a different building.

That about summarizes the opinion portion of this segment.

[jenboo]

I do not have children yet but thought about this a lot before I opened. We specifically bought a house with a separate family room/ living room. The daycare is in the family room which is at one end of the house away from the rest of the house.
My plan is that daycare hours are daycare hours. My children will follow all the daycare rules. Playing with personal toys happens after daycare hours. The only exception will be when their dad gets home. They can go in the other areas of house with him. They will need to pick one or the other though. They wont be allowed to go back and forth. Once they age out of the daycare program then they will be able to go in their rooms and the living room or in the daycare room but they have to pick one and stick to it.

I put a lot of thought into this because i worked at a home daycare where the provider's children got all kinds of special treatment and it ****ed for the other kids. I understand that it is your child and their home but you are still working.

[spud912]

I try very hard to be fair and consistent in front of the dck's and their parents.
*I wake up my children when breakfast is served because I don't do special meals outside of when I serve them. That is basically so I can maintain the schedule.
*My children eat all of the same meals and snacks as the dck's. If they want a special snack (if I allow it), then they have to eat it in a separate room with the door closed. I do not serve meals to my family during daycare hours.
*My children have to share all the toys in the play room as well as outside and are subject to the same "taking turns" rules as the dck's.
*My children are subject to the same discipline as the dck's during dck hours (and for the same reasons).

With that being said, they do have certain privileges that daycare children don't have. They can play in their rooms at any point and do not have to participate in daycare activities. Daycare children are never allowed in their rooms. However, their toys are not to come into the daycare room. If they do bring in a toy from their room into the daycare space, it would follow the show-and-tell rules and it must be shared if a dck wants a turn. My children also have the freedom to play in our fenced yard during daycare hours without my direct supervision. Daycare children are always in my direct supervision. Oh, and my children are allowed to go to the bathroom with me if they want to for some reason . There are times of the day where I give my daughters extra snuggles, but I would never turn away a dck if they wanted some too.