Tough Call....Long Story

[Blackcat31]

I don't necessarily need advice on what to do, but I do need to vent and get a little feedback. I have 2 brothers in care. One is 5 and in Kindergarten this year, the younger one is 7 months. SA brother comes only on no school days, never before or after school. The baby comes every day M-F.
DCM is a recovering addict. (I'm not sure what exactly...just know it was drugs, not alcohol) She had lost custody of son at birth and had just got him back full time and was living in a half way house and adjusting to motherhood and clean life. Son comes to daycare M-F while mom works and all is well. Good mom, good schedule, good kid. She meets nice guy when son is close to 3 and he is son's father figure. (bio dad never in his life) They now have a 7 month old who started coming at 6 weeks M-F when mom and dad have to work. #2 son is happiest baby I have ever seen! His schedule varies but is here every day. Dad is VERY involved and tells me about all the books he is reading on parenting and all is good. Slowly over last few months baby starts coming earlier and earlier and gets picked up later and later. I start noticing mom and dad both are wearing PJ pants at drop off and pick up. First 1 or 2 days a week now every day. Their appearance has gone from caring to obviously not caring. I have also noticed that they have a car load of shady ppl with them when they pickup or drop off. The SA son goes home everyday after school so I know they are home at 3 but yet baby stays at daycare. School is 1 block north of me and their apartment is 1 block south of me so I am in between the school and their house but they never come get baby til end of day at closing. Baby is still clean and has all his necessary supplies. He is happy and dry when he arrives. Baby shows NO SIGNS OF NEGLECT OR ABUSE. Mom and dad, however, have me worried because of their changing behavior/appearance. Today, baby is fussy because he is teething badly. He has been a little off all week but I am sure it is the teething b/c mom brought him to Dr. Monday for check up. He has clean bill of health. I call mom and she says "We are just hanging at home, so we will come get him right away". Obviously they bring baby everyday whether they work or not but my concern is their changing behavior/appearance like I said. I really believe they are using again or starting to and am not sure what I should really do. I can't just out right ask them and I feel like if I call DHS I have no real facts except my observations and gut instinct. If it is something else, I will feel bad for assuming past behavior predicting future behaviors. I feel like I am just waiting for something to happen so I can call and say something, but what if they are just going through something else entirely. Mom is a CNA and sometimes works nightshift. Dad is a cook at Applebee's and works shifts too. If I am accusing them of something, I'd like to know I am sure, not just guessing. I've had the family for a long time. It is a tough call...I'd like some feedback so I can sort of see everyone else's point of view or opinions. This is the only part of the job I hate!!

[marniewon]

That IS a tough call! If you wait until something happens, and it does, then you will feel badly for not saying anything earlier. But if you do something now without concrete proof, and it's something else entirely, you will feel bad for making the call.

Since you've known the family a while, could you casually ask mom if everything is okay? Or ask how her work is going, or anything, really, to get her talking, and maybe she'll open up, or let something slip, if anything is going on. I don't mean confronting her, just talking.

Good luck on this one, and I sincerely hope that it's something innocent and not that mom is using again.

[Lilbutterflie]

My thoughts are that you have a right to be suspicious, but I don't think it's enough to accuse or call DHS, like you said. Bottom line right now is, it seems like the children are unaffected thus far. If you are right, and they are using again... you'll probably have more to witness and document in the future. Start documenting, but wait until you have more evidence before accusing. If it gets to that point, try confronting them before calling DHS. Maybe there is an entirely different explanation. That takes a good backbone though, I don't know if I could confront one of my dcp's about using!

[Crystal]

Personally, I'd make that call. You don't have to KNOW, you just have to suspect. It's DHS job to investigate and find out if you're suspisions are correct. Based on the family history, I think you have to make that call-especially being a mandated reporter. What if you didn't make the call, and, God forbid, something happened? I think I'd feel worse than if I made the call and was wrong. Good luck, I wouldn't want to be in your shoes

[missnikki]

A few questions:
1) Are they paying on time? (Not forgetting. making excuses, or broke)
2) You said the kids are showing no signs of abuse, but are they active and self- directed or clingy and needy?
3) Do they talk about doing things as a family, like vacations or activities?
4) Are the parents generally open and talk freely, or seem guarded and quiet?

I do not recommend accusing anyone of anything at this point. I would definitely look for signs of behavior changing (parents and/or kids).

There could be any number of reasons for the change in appearance: depression, fatigue, odd schedule... Always keep your eyes and mind open. It's good of you to notice.

[Blackcat31]

A few questions:
1) Are they paying on time? (Not forgetting. making excuses, or broke)
2) You said the kids are showing no signs of abuse, but are they active and self- directed or clingy and needy?
3) Do they talk about doing things as a family, like vacations or activities?
4) Are the parents generally open and talk freely, or seem guarded and quiet?

I do not recommend accusing anyone of anything at this point. I would definitely look for signs of behavior changing (parents and/or kids).

There could be any number of reasons for the change in appearance: depression, fatigue, odd schedule... Always keep your eyes and mind open. It's good of you to notice.

1. Parents are on assistance from county with co-pay and it is paid on time. Always good about being on time.
2. I don't see the SA boy much but when I do, I see no change. New baby who is 7 months is same as always...happy happy happy!
3./4. Mom and Dad are both quiet and have never talked much. They appear to be shy by nature. They are friendly when I do ask questions and always tell me when baby was last fed, changed and sleep patterns. They sometimes say things about going to visit relatives out of town together and going to beach and fishing (with their shady looking friends though) so I don't know...

I do document everything! I worked for Head Start for 5 years and I learned to document very well. I have also called CPS on families before (not this one) and have always been told the same thing....got to have more than just a gut instinct or feeling. Which is why I am wondering what I should do about this situation. I know if I call not much will be done. I called on dcb age 4 once who told me his Uncle was smoking pot around him and in the car with him and CPS sent mom a letter saying someone was concerned and if she felt she needed help she could contact them!?!?! I just have had some bad experiences with CPS and calling. I know they are understaffed and I really feel as though until I have proof, nothing will be done. I am just going to keep documenting and hope nothing is really happening. It has only gotten to the point of me being concerned in last 2-3 months. Having a new baby and working is tough and stressful so it could be a bunch of things...who knows. I wonder if it would be out of line if I talked with the grandmother. She is dcm's mother and the person who had custody of #1 son when he was taken from mom. Grandma had him from birth until mom got him back at 1 and he started coming to care. I know we have confidentiality rules and all, but I wonder how much I can share with her without breaking those rules? Whew!! We are soooo underpaid!!!

[busymomof2]

I was a foster care social worker for 7 1/2 years until I couldn't take it anymore. My view on society was so negative that I wanted my children to stay in a bubble. To make yourself feel better and cover yourself legally, you can make the call and document that you did. However, just because you make a call does not mean that DSS is going to get involved. They get a ton of calls everyday and with the budget cuts they don't have the man power to act on all of them. They will set it aside because really what do you have in way of evidence/proof...a gut feeling (no offense). What I would do is like the pp said try some small talk to see if you can see why they are acting strange (dress) and look out for signs. Both of my brother in laws were addicts and you can tell most of the time because they begin to lose weight, teeth, get marks on face, lose their jobs, etc. As for not picking up their child, I can see a parent saying "well I am going to have to pay whether my child is there or not and why not let the dc lady deal with a fussy baby". Now if you begin to see signs of neglect or abuse call right AWAY! I have seen the results of children who live with addicts. It's not pretty and basically it's not fair to the child. If anything, the parents can receive help. Hope this helps. I hate dealing with this stuff too. I'd rather live in a world where everything is beautiful and parents love and protect their children ...yea right.

[nannyde]

1. Parents are on assistance from county with co-pay and it is paid on time. Always good about being on time.
2. I don't see the SA boy much but when I do, I see no change. New baby who is 7 months is same as always...happy happy happy!
3./4. Mom and Dad are both quiet and have never talked much. They appear to be shy by nature. They are friendly when I do ask questions and always tell me when baby was last fed, changed and sleep patterns. They sometimes say things about going to visit relatives out of town together and going to beach and fishing (with their shady looking friends though) so I don't know...

I do document everything! I worked for Head Start for 5 years and I learned to document very well. I have also called CPS on families before (not this one) and have always been told the same thing....got to have more than just a gut instinct or feeling. Which is why I am wondering what I should do about this situation. I know if I call not much will be done. I called on dcb age 4 once who told me his Uncle was smoking pot around him and in the car with him and CPS sent mom a letter saying someone was concerned and if she felt she needed help she could contact them!?!?! I just have had some bad experiences with CPS and calling. I know they are understaffed and I really feel as though until I have proof, nothing will be done. I am just going to keep documenting and hope nothing is really happening. It has only gotten to the point of me being concerned in last 2-3 months. Having a new baby and working is tough and stressful so it could be a bunch of things...who knows. I wonder if it would be out of line if I talked with the grandmother. She is dcm's mother and the person who had custody of #1 son when he was taken from mom. Grandma had him from birth until mom got him back at 1 and he started coming to care. I know we have confidentiality rules and all, but I wonder how much I can share with her without breaking those rules? Whew!! We are soooo underpaid!!!

My state does NOT pay for ANY day care unless the parents are AT WORK. The only exception are children who receive child protective funding and there is NO expectation that the parent work. The State wants them in day care to give the parent a break.

If they are bringing the child when they are not working and you are receiving the child during non work hours could you be in trouble?

Back in the day when I took State paid one of the hardest things to get thru to the State paid clients was that the day care was ONLY for work hours. It's very difficult to get people who are receiving something for free or near free to accept any strings attached to the free.

The State here does not pay for anything but travel time to and from work and work. If the client takes the day off the kids are NOT to be in day care. If they have a doc appointment or an appointment with the DHS they are NOT to bring their kids to day care.

They make them sign this agreement:

Daycare is paid ONLY for the reasons shown on the Notice of Decision (work, school, job search). If you leave your children at the providers during ANY other time, YOU are responsible to pay for that time. You must notify your worker if you: move, change providers, change in income/job, change in hours (school or work).

If they are State paid my primary interest would be that they are not using State funded day care for private time off. My State does NOT pay for day time day care when the parents work evenings. If they are using you during the day and they have a babysitter at night for when they work... WHY are they bringing the child to you during the day? They obviously do NOT need free/near free day care.

If they are heading down the wrong path there's nothing in the world that's going to right them then having their kid when they are trying to play.

[mainemomma]

Do you know where they work? Can you find out if they are both still working?? I think at this point I would continue as you are and document everything. I hope its not what you are suspecting and everything is ok for the little ones!!!

[Lucy]

Personally, I'd make that call. You don't have to KNOW, you just have to suspect. It's DHS job to investigate and find out if you're suspisions are correct. Based on the family history, I think you have to make that call-especially being a mandated reporter. What if you didn't make the call, and, God forbid, something happened? I think I'd feel worse than if I made the call and was wrong. Good luck, I wouldn't want to be in your shoes

I disagree. What would she say to DHS? "I have parents who wear pajamas at drop off" ??? Gives DHS nothing to go on. I say you need to start documenting EVERYTHING starting now. Including the parents and both kids' appearances and moods, any marks on the parents' arms, exceedingly droopy eyes, etc. Just start writing down anything and everything. When your suspicions become more than just "wondering", call. You'll know when it gets to that point.

[Crystal]

I disagree. What would she say to DHS? "I have parents who wear pajamas at drop off" ??? Gives DHS nothing to go on. I say you need to start documenting EVERYTHING starting now. Including the parents and both kids' appearances and moods, any marks on the parents' arms, exceedingly droopy eyes, etc. Just start writing down anything and everything. When your suspicions become more than just "wondering", call. You'll know when it gets to that point.

No, based on Mom's history and the fact that she just recently got her oldest child back and "Slowly over last few months baby starts coming earlier and earlier and gets picked up later and later. I start noticing mom and dad both are wearing PJ pants at drop off and pick up. First 1 or 2 days a week now every day. Their appearance has gone from caring to obviously not caring. I have also noticed that they have a car load of shady ppl with them when they pickup or drop off. " I would consider that "reasonable suspicion" which is all that is required under the law. As a mandated reporter, I would not want to be found negligent of reporting, should somehting happen to one of the children.

[BentleysBands]

i wouldnt report but document...i wouldnt want to be report for wearing pj's and my child coming earlier and p/u later....i would address the d/o and p/u problems if thats something u feel bothers you but just because of someones past and theres NO evidence now i dont feel its right. most times r gut is right but until u have more evidence i dont think u should. i wouldnt want to be reported because of being in pj's and having other ppl that someone else thought were 'shady' in my car ....past is past...we ALL have skeletons in our closets i'm sure....i know i do!!

[Crystal]

I get that most wouldn't report for these behaviors, and I respect that, but they are clear indicators of drug use and I couldn't feel good about myself if something happened. I have seen this exact same pattern with several people, and in the end, it has always ended up with cps having to take the children away, only the children have suffered neglect, behind closed doors, for months/years before something was done about it, because people felt it was "too soon to call"....my great niece is currently being adopted by my parents and my niece displayed the exact same pattern described above. I guess I just have to much first-hand experience and awareness to be able to let it slide without at least making the call and allowing cps to decide if it is a viable reason to investigate. CPS will decide if always wearing pajamas, declining appearance, etc. are worth checking in on.

[laundryduchess@yahoo.com]

Id talk to mom, just say, hey are you ok? youve been a little sad the past few days and Im worried about you,.. you are part of our family now and I want to make sure your ok......

[Blackcat31]

Id talk to mom, just say, hey are you ok? youve been a little sad the past few days and Im worried about you,.. you are part of our family now and I want to make sure your ok......

I am gonna try this today and see what she says. I do feel I know this family well enough to at least ask mom that question. I also think I would be able to tell if she was being honest or covering up and just saying something to pacify me.
I also want to clarify about the "shady" people I see with them at d/o and p/u. One is a guy who has recently been in the newspapers for drug use and selling so that is common knowledge. (I would think ppl who are recovering shouldn't hang with ppl who are in trouble.) The other shady person is female and wears an ankle bracelet monitoring device. For what I do not know and I do not want to make any assumptions. I do agree with BentleysBands and do not want to assume something b/c of the past. This mom did lose her child but that was almost 6 yrs ago so it wasn't recently that she got him back. She only missed year 1 and has been a good parent for 5 years since. Both kids are outgoing and friendly. They are clean, well feed, see a Dr regularly and nothing but a few little things nag at me so I think I will take the advice from laundryduchess and just ask mom if she is okay. I am going to call b/c I think it is a little less confrontational, plus baby is running low on supplies so that can be my ice breaker..... I'll keep you posted......