Our Legal Rights?

[Punkin.Butts]

Do we have any legal rights when it comes to not only false allegations of abuse/neglect/imminent danger, but such drastic allegations that the investigation last no more than a a couple hours, with the CPS agent leaving complimenting the daycare and set up, safety, interaction etc!


I am just wondering when it is PROVABLE that the allegation is 100% incorrect thru a written out or typed manner, and we can prove that what was "reported" was false and made up entirely, plus not even plausable... is there anything legally we can do to get the name of the reporter maybe to sue for libel, slander, dimenished reputation, loss of wages resulting from the investigation and children being taken out of our care or an interviewed parent deciding not to put their child in our care due to this incident etc?


I've been told that suing would open up the file to the attorney so that we could sue the actual person, and not just the john doe of the report... just wanting to double check before contacting my attorney

[Laurel]

Do we have any legal rights when it comes to not only false allegations of abuse/neglect/imminent danger, but such drastic allegations that the investigation last no more than a a couple hours, with the CPS agent leaving complimenting the daycare and set up, safety, interaction etc!


I am just wondering when it is PROVABLE that the allegation is 100% incorrect thru a written out or typed manner, and we can prove that what was "reported" was false and made up entirely, plus not even plausable... is there anything legally we can do to get the name of the reporter maybe to sue for libel, slander, dimenished reputation, loss of wages resulting from the investigation and children being taken out of our care or an interviewed parent deciding not to put their child in our care due to this incident etc?


I've been told that suing would open up the file to the attorney so that we could sue the actual person, and not just the john doe of the report... just wanting to double check before contacting my attorney

I have no idea but it seems like there should be some legal recourse.

I hope someone comes along that knows. Let us know what you find out.

Laurel

[melilley]

Do you have insurance for your daycare?
If you do, your insurance co. may be able to tell you what to do. I know that my insurance co. will cover any allegations, but I'm not sure to what extent or if they would know what to do to proceed as I have never really looked into it.

Just a thought.

[_Dana_]

As a survivor of domestic violence(D.V.), I have talked w/ loads of D.V. advocates and done a lot of research on children who are caught in the cross-hairs of D.V. I have learned that nothing reported to CPS is totally confidential. Lawyers are able to get that information, though I do not know how. I'm sure that you can find out.

Good luck.

[nannyde]

I don't see how you could but possibly your DHS could. In the end you were inspected which most likely you agreed to when you registered or was licensed. The only party that could claim they were disadvantaged would be them. I think Utah has consequences for false dhs claims but I don't know of any other State.

Now if the complainer went public and you could prove it then you may have a case. If the only complaint went to the ones who are directed to field complaints then I wouldn't think you have recourse.

If the DHS took action based on a false claim and you suffered then you could have a case. From your description the only thing that happened was a 100 percent inspection that was over quickly.

[Unregistered]

I would think it depends.

If DHS came and it was unfounded and nothing else happened, there would be no damages.

If DHS unfounded it, and yet the DCParent was going around trying to ruin your business (I.E. Word of mouth, craigslist posts, facebook, other written or oral false allegations), and you feel or are actually losing potential clients or actual clients, then you might just have a case.

You'd have to be able to be pretty sure who did it. Is this after terming a former DC parent? Is it a neighbor? Who do you think reported it? What was the situation leading up to the visit that you think is related?

A lot of questions would need answered. It's probably best to contact someone that has a legal background.

[Meeko]

Nannyde is right. Utah doesn't take lightly to false claims.

This is from the state licensing website:

ONLINE COMPLAINT PROCESS

By statute, the Department is not allowed to investigate an anonymous complaint. The statute also does not allow us to investigate complaints that allege incidents which occurred more than 6 weeks prior to the report of the incidents.
If you wish to file a complaint by phone, please contact our Salt Lake or Provo regional office (Contact Information), or call (801) 584-8280. Licensing hours are Monday through Friday (except legal holidays) from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.
Once your complaint is reviewed, you may be contacted by someone from Child Care Licensing if more information is needed.
To report possible child abuse or neglect, please call the Child Abuse Intake Hotline at 1-855-323-3237.
By submitting a complaint, you acknowledge that the information you submit is accurate. If a person knowingly gives false information to Child Care Licensing for the purposes of changing the status of a child care license or certificate, the person giving the false information may be guilty of a Class B Misdemeanor.

Most things that have changed here in the providers favor are because we demanded it. Strength in numbers!

[TwinKristi]

Unfortunately you have to have a "loss" to prove. If you didn't have a job you can't sue someone for lost wages. If you lost clients due to this that's different. But it's hard to prove potential losses from clients who may have chosen you. And like someone else mentioned, an inspection isn't considered a loss since you have given up that right to refuse as a DCP. Back like 10yrs ago I knew 3 DCPs who had a war going on with reporting each other and eventually one of them got in trouble for retaliatory reports or something? I forget the details. Anyway, I know my daycare insurance covers false claims of abuse. I'm not sure "what" that covers.

[nanglgrl]

Nannyde is right. Utah doesn't take lightly to false claims.

This is from the state licensing website:

ONLINE COMPLAINT PROCESS

By statute, the Department is not allowed to investigate an anonymous complaint. The statute also does not allow us to investigate complaints that allege incidents which occurred more than 6 weeks prior to the report of the incidents.
If you wish to file a complaint by phone, please contact our Salt Lake or Provo regional office (Contact Information), or call (801) 584-8280. Licensing hours are Monday through Friday (except legal holidays) from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.
Once your complaint is reviewed, you may be contacted by someone from Child Care Licensing if more information is needed.
To report possible child abuse or neglect, please call the Child Abuse Intake Hotline at 1-855-323-3237.
By submitting a complaint, you acknowledge that the information you submit is accurate. If a person knowingly gives false information to Child Care Licensing for the purposes of changing the status of a child care license or certificate, the person giving the false information may be guilty of a Class B Misdemeanor.

Most things that have changed here in the providers favor are because we demanded it. Strength in numbers!

I wish providers in my state would demand this. It's so bad that the couple times DHS has come in the last 10 years. (Both clearly unfounded and false reports) the first question I was asked is if I had terminated anyone or did a client owe me money. The answer was yes both times. Both times a person called because they were trying to get out of paying. One of the reports was so easily disproven and obviously false it was ridiculous.
The claim was I let the children, including toddlers, go outside when the weather was well below 0. I let them cross the street and play on some snow in a parking lot while I was inside. I printed off the weather report for that day.
It was perfectly acceptable weather to play outdoors. I had clients call who had picked up their children early and had seen me outside with the children. I had them call my landlord who had also seen me outside with the children. I knew exactly who had made the report. It was a mom who wanted special (me to spoonfeed her perfectly capable 4 year old and I refused) and funny enough it was also the same person who had brought a snowsuit that morning and commented what a great day it would be to play outside. When she picked up her child and asked about her day I replied. "She had fun playing outside" this caused her to think she was alone since I said "she" and not "we". She didn't bother asking her 4 year old and because I was not giving in to her demands she wanted to throw a fit.
About a year later the parent called me and asked if I knew where her daughter was. She said her daughter didn't get off at the bus stop and was hoping maybe she's gotten off at mine because she always said she wanted to go to my house. I helped her find her child but when she asked if she could come back to my daycare I declined.
I wish people like her could have consequences but I also understand why the state thinks that might cause a problem. I understand that they think people will be scared to make claims, even valid ones. I think it would free up their time to investigate real abuse cases and I think they'd have a lot less people making false complaints. To make it worse the state always has to investigate claims that are against daycares so even if they know it's bull they still have to spend time on it.

[Blackcat31]

Do we have any legal rights when it comes to not only false allegations of abuse/neglect/imminent danger, but such drastic allegations that the investigation last no more than a a couple hours, with the CPS agent leaving complimenting the daycare and set up, safety, interaction etc!


I am just wondering when it is PROVABLE that the allegation is 100% incorrect thru a written out or typed manner, and we can prove that what was "reported" was false and made up entirely, plus not even plausable... is there anything legally we can do to get the name of the reporter maybe to sue for libel, slander, dimenished reputation, loss of wages resulting from the investigation and children being taken out of our care or an interviewed parent deciding not to put their child in our care due to this incident etc?


I've been told that suing would open up the file to the attorney so that we could sue the actual person, and not just the john doe of the report... just wanting to double check before contacting my attorney

I know people aren't always truthful in reporting.

Often times it's retaliatory or just spiteful but MOST times when someone reports they do so because they "had probably cause to suspect" something was amiss.

How could you ever prove that the person didn't "have probably cause to suspect"?

Like beauty, that sort of thing would be in the eye of the beholder and really hard to prove.

If a person truly believed something, whether it turned out to be 100% false or not, doesn't matter.

What matters is that the person reporting TRULY believed it to be possible when they reported.

We, as providers are mandated reporters.

In my state the words used in reference to that is "who knows or has reason to believe" and "suspected abuse or neglect (physical, emotional, mental and/or sexual) ".

That's ALOT of gray if you ask me.

When you view this from our end (the provider's) I am glad the wording is vague because I would never want to be sued or reprimanded for calling CPS or reporting suspected abuse because even if it wasn't true....

......what if it was and I was afraid to call because I could be in trouble or sued if it wasn't?

[Blackcat31]

I think Utah has consequences for false dhs claims but I don't know of any other State.

Now if the complainer went public and you could prove it then you may have a case. If the only complaint went to the ones who are directed to field complaints then I wouldn't think you have recourse.

If the DHS took action based on a false claim and you suffered then you could have a case. From your description the only thing that happened was a 100 percent inspection that was over quickly.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/statutes/report.pdf#Page=3&view=Fit

Approximately 29 States carry penalties in their civil child
protection laws for any person who willfully or intentionally
makes a report of child abuse or neglect that the reporter knows
to be false.7 In New York, Ohio, and the Virgin Islands, making
false reports of child maltreatment is made illegal in criminal
sections of State code.

Nineteen States and the Virgin Islands classify false reporting as
a misdemeanor or similar charge.8 In Florida, Illinois, Tennessee,
and Texas, false reporting is a felony, while in Arkansas, Illinois,
Indiana, Missouri, and Virginia, second or subsequent offenses
are upgraded to felonies. In Michigan, false reporting can be
either a misdemeanor or a felony, depending on the seriousness
of the alleged abuse in the report. No criminal penalties
are imposed in California, Maine, Montana, Minnesota, and
Nebraska; however, immunity from civil or criminal action that
is provided to reporters of abuse or neglect is not extended to
those who make a false report

[Punkin.Butts]

I would think it depends.

If DHS came and it was unfounded and nothing else happened, there would be no damages.

If DHS unfounded it, and yet the DCParent was going around trying to ruin your business (I.E. Word of mouth, craigslist posts, facebook, other written or oral false allegations), and you feel or are actually losing potential clients or actual clients, then you might just have a case.

You'd have to be able to be pretty sure who did it. Is this after terming a former DC parent? Is it a neighbor? Who do you think reported it? What was the situation leading up to the visit that you think is related?

A lot of questions would need answered. It's probably best to contact someone that has a legal background.

I had posted a question and responses in a FB secret group. someone in the group turned me in and MIS-quoted my responses which caused CPS and police to show up pounding on my door in the middle of lunch, saying that i had children in "imminent danger" and they were there to investigate and remedy the situation. problem is, that I was able to PROVE to the CPS agent that the "quote" that the reporter gave, was NOT what was written, she typed her own words in there completely, only using a couple of my sentences, and in her report, referred TO THE FB POST.
My daycare parents were inconvienced at work, my daycare kids didn't get to eat for over an hour past lunch time, they then were late for nap times, where they kept getting woken up because there was a police car in my driveway with lights ablazing just an hour before and they were coming over to find out WHY and if everything was ok.. but they kept ringing the bell waking all the kids up. My potty training DCK peed her pants because they wouldn't let me interact with the kids until they "we're at ease" with the complaint that there wasn't in fact imminent danger.
My kids and the DCK's had to be interviewed. My oldest and his dad were on a father/son day out of town, and had to come back immediately so that the CPS agent could see that he was infact... live and well, because just talking to him on the phone wasn't enough.. Problem with that is.. His dad deploys in 4 days (3 as of today) and it was their LAST day together before he deployed and they only got to spend 6 hours together. My ex (son's dad) also had to be interviewed.
Etc etc etc. so yes.. it was detrimental to my business, if only for a day, how do I know that it's not going to effect me in the long run, it live in a VERY small community of school teachers, principals, and super intendents. They had to forward the entire case to the school system.. where I am on the list as an approved "safe child" provider for our school system. how do I know that at the next board meeting they don't remove me from that list? etc.

[Meeko]

Nannyde is right. Utah doesn't take lightly to false claims.

This is from the state licensing website:

ONLINE COMPLAINT PROCESS

By statute, the Department is not allowed to investigate an anonymous complaint. The statute also does not allow us to investigate complaints that allege incidents which occurred more than 6 weeks prior to the report of the incidents.
If you wish to file a complaint by phone, please contact our Salt Lake or Provo regional office (Contact Information), or call (801) 584-8280. Licensing hours are Monday through Friday (except legal holidays) from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.
Once your complaint is reviewed, you may be contacted by someone from Child Care Licensing if more information is needed.
To report possible child abuse or neglect, please call the Child Abuse Intake Hotline at 1-855-323-3237.
By submitting a complaint, you acknowledge that the information you submit is accurate. If a person knowingly gives false information to Child Care Licensing for the purposes of changing the status of a child care license or certificate, the person giving the false information may be guilty of a Class B Misdemeanor.

Most things that have changed here in the providers favor are because we demanded it. Strength in numbers!

The biggest help for Utah providers is the 6 weeks rule. Most complaint reports are filed only after parents finally figure out that the provider really DOES wants to be paid The chase for payment can often take the 6 weeks while the provider writes demand letters, etc etc. So it's often too late for the vindictive parent to file a complaint.

Also, "abuse" complaints are very suspect if they are not reported very promptly. If a parent truly thinks their child has been hurt/abused, they would call within 24 hours. I once had a collection agency tell me that judges are tired of parents who suddenly "remember" their child was abused WEEKS after care ended and only after payment is demanded.

[Play Care]

I had posted a question and responses in a FB secret group. someone in the group turned me in and MIS-quoted my responses which caused CPS and police to show up pounding on my door in the middle of lunch, saying that i had children in "imminent danger" and they were there to investigate and remedy the situation. problem is, that I was able to PROVE to the CPS agent that the "quote" that the reporter gave, was NOT what was written, she typed her own words in there completely, only using a couple of my sentences, and in her report, referred TO THE FB POST.
My daycare parents were inconvienced at work, my daycare kids didn't get to eat for over an hour past lunch time, they then were late for nap times, where they kept getting woken up because there was a police car in my driveway with lights ablazing just an hour before and they were coming over to find out WHY and if everything was ok.. but they kept ringing the bell waking all the kids up. My potty training DCK peed her pants because they wouldn't let me interact with the kids until they "we're at ease" with the complaint that there wasn't in fact imminent danger.
My kids and the DCK's had to be interviewed. My oldest and his dad were on a father/son day out of town, and had to come back immediately so that the CPS agent could see that he was infact... live and well, because just talking to him on the phone wasn't enough.. Problem with that is.. His dad deploys in 4 days (3 as of today) and it was their LAST day together before he deployed and they only got to spend 6 hours together. My ex (son's dad) also had to be interviewed.
Etc etc etc. so yes.. it was detrimental to my business, if only for a day, how do I know that it's not going to effect me in the long run, it live in a VERY small community of school teachers, principals, and super intendents. They had to forward the entire case to the school system.. where I am on the list as an approved "safe child" provider for our school system. how do I know that at the next board meeting they don't remove me from that list? etc.

Was this FB group for local providers or one of the bigger ones? I stopped posted on those because I've witnessed on more than once occasion a provider threaten to turn in another provider. In one case the provider was asking about using bean bag chairs for naps, and many providers said they were dangerous due to suffocation, not allowed in their states, etc. It was clear to me that the OP had no idea this was the case and was clearly NOT going to do it once she learned about the dangers. And yet one provider bashed her saying "Your profile is private but if I knew what state you were in I'd turn you in!" That was my last time on those boards

Anyway, glad it turned out okay, but yeah it was eye opening.

[Blackcat31]

I had posted a question and responses in a FB secret group. someone in the group turned me in and MIS-quoted my responses which caused CPS and police to show up pounding on my door in the middle of lunch, saying that i had children in "imminent danger" and they were there to investigate and remedy the situation. problem is, that I was able to PROVE to the CPS agent that the "quote" that the reporter gave, was NOT what was written, she typed her own words in there completely, only using a couple of my sentences, and in her report, referred TO THE FB POST.
My daycare parents were inconvienced at work, my daycare kids didn't get to eat for over an hour past lunch time, they then were late for nap times, where they kept getting woken up because there was a police car in my driveway with lights ablazing just an hour before and they were coming over to find out WHY and if everything was ok.. but they kept ringing the bell waking all the kids up. My potty training DCK peed her pants because they wouldn't let me interact with the kids until they "we're at ease" with the complaint that there wasn't in fact imminent danger.
My kids and the DCK's had to be interviewed. My oldest and his dad were on a father/son day out of town, and had to come back immediately so that the CPS agent could see that he was infact... live and well, because just talking to him on the phone wasn't enough.. Problem with that is.. His dad deploys in 4 days (3 as of today) and it was their LAST day together before he deployed and they only got to spend 6 hours together. My ex (son's dad) also had to be interviewed.
Etc etc etc. so yes.. it was detrimental to my business, if only for a day, how do I know that it's not going to effect me in the long run, it live in a VERY small community of school teachers, principals, and super intendents. They had to forward the entire case to the school system.. where I am on the list as an approved "safe child" provider for our school system. how do I know that at the next board meeting they don't remove me from that list? etc.

I am sorry this happened to you. It sounds really stressful and seems to me that it was a lot of hoopla over nothing...

Unfortunately, although this kind of stuff does affect our businesses and our reputations, I also feel that it's kind of the risk we take as providers when we go into this business and invite others into our homes/lives....kwim?

I wish there was a way we could seek damages or retribution when this kind of thing happens but I think it's all just part of the profession.....

.....and one of THE biggest reasons men run from this career choice.

All it takes is ONE person to say, report, suspect or make up allegations and whether they are true or not, never seems to matter in the end.

I do hope this all passes quickly for you. I might even consider trying to contact and address the whole thing with your school board BEFORE they do...being proactive can be helpful in showing that you aren't and never was guilty of anything reportable or illegal.