What Would You Do.........

[caregiver]

I know this thread has been on here before, but I really need advice.
I have a 4 yr old dcb whose behavior is very troubling. I am at my wits end and don't know what to do anymore.
He always wants his way. will push or shove one of the other dcg, who is 2 yrs old, if she is in his way or sitting on the chair he wants to sit on,wants everything Right Now, can't wait for anything, even lunch, I will have something in the oven that takes a few minutes to cook and he says too long and then will proceed with what he is not getting that he wants will have a really big melt down, screaming at me and will go hide under the play table and says Don't talk to me.He will also throw a toy in anger, doesn't hurt anyone, but still throws it. He has many of these melt downs every time something does not go his way. I have talk to his parents many times about his behavior and they have the same problem with him at home and not sure how at home they are handling it.
This morning he has already had 3 meltdowns and yesterday about 5 meltdowns. Had to vent his morning and called my dear hubby at work and he basically just tells me to deal with him,put in time out, which I have tried many times, but he will just fight me and pull away. There is only so much I can do as a daycare provider to discipline. I really think this child has a light case of Asbergers pr HDAD,and I don't thin the parents are thinking along any of these lines right now. This behavior is just not normal and hubby says not to say anything to them as they need to notice this for themselves. I really don't want to term him as he can be really sweet when he wants to be and I want to show him that I care. If he does have some kind of problem, he really can't help it or know what he is doing, so I am really trying to help him.
Would you have called the parents and had them come get him this morning when he acts like this. I don't want to come across as I can't handle their child to them. I don't think this is just the behavior of a spoiled child, I really do think there is something wrong with him. I have had him and his 2 yr old sister for 7 months now.
Sorry this is so long.
Any advice?

[melilley]

I have one child who has frequent melt downs. He's only 2, but he barely says any words, but knows exactly what you are saying. He also is aggressive and will walk by and hit or do what ever he feels like. He does this at home too. He used to bite, but that has stopped.

I just tell him that he can go in my hallway and be upset there. It really works. It's gotten to the point where sometimes he will run into the hallway without me saying anything, to have his meltdown. I do it this way so that he can't hurt anyone by lashing his body around or from throwing toys.

I have thought about terming, but haven't. I am really working with him and mom is also really working with him at home and and he is getting better. He says a few words, though I can barely understand them and his aggressiveness is still there, but he doesn't do it as much. I've had him since he was 18 months.

One of the hardest things that I have done was talk to mom about his aggressive behavior and my concern about his speech. She said she wasn't offended and was a little concerned too. I suggested that she contact our Early On program and they could observe him to see if there were any delays. She said she did so I'm going to leave it at that.

[caregiver]

I have one child who has frequent melt downs. He's only 2, but he barely says any words, but knows exactly what you are saying. He also is aggressive and will walk by and hit or do what ever he feels like. He does this at home too. He used to bite, but that has stopped.

I just tell him that he can go in my hallway and be upset there. It really works. It's gotten to the point where sometimes he will run into the hallway without me saying anything, to have his meltdown. I do it this way so that he can't hurt anyone by lashing his body around or from throwing toys.

I have thought about terming, but haven't. I am really working with him and mom is also really working with him at home and and he is getting better. He says a few words, though I can barely understand them and his aggressiveness is still there, but he doesn't do it as much. I've had him since he was 18 months.

One of the hardest things that I have done was talk to mom about his aggressive behavior and my concern about his speech. She said she wasn't offended and was a little concerned too. I suggested that she contact our Early On program and they could observe him to see if there were any delays. She said she did so I'm going to leave it at that.

Sorry you are going thru this kind of situation also. It is very hard. I am also working with the parents to try and figure out what to do. That is the main reason I am not terming because they are willing to work with me and they do know how he behaves. He is going to preschool 3x's a week in the morning and then comes here in the afternoon, except this week they have no preschool. I am hoping that maybe the preschool teacher will notice something if he acts like this at preschool, which I don't take him there so I don't know how he acts there,it may come across better from a teacher then the daycare provider..
I am attached to this dcb and as I said he can be really sweet, so I am really trying my hardest to help him and show him I care and love him.
I really have no place he can go and sit if he gets frustrated like you use your hall. I have a hall and 3 other bedrooms I could have him go in, but honestly, I don't trust him out of my site and then he will pull away from me if I take him and try and put him in time out, he will pull away.
I can not physically force him either, as we providers can not do much as far as discipline. So I will just walk out of the room and let him have his melt down. In my 30+ years of doing daycare, I have never had a child like him before!

[Unregistered]

My child has high functioning autism. She was exactly how you described before she was diagnosed and put on medication. I wouldn't bring up the "A" word with them but figure out a gentle way to tell them you are concerned with the behavior and maybe a doctor could help. Then the doctor refer to a professional.

[melilley]

My child has high functioning autism. She was exactly how you described before she was diagnosed and put on medication. I wouldn't bring up the "A" word with them but figure out a gentle way to tell them you are concerned with the behavior and maybe a doctor could help. Then the doctor refer to a professional.

I'm just curious, how old was your dd when she was diagnosed? My 2 yo dcb is just like how op described, is that too young to know? My dcp talked to her doctor and they said to wait 6 more months to see and see how he is then (he would be 2 1/2 then). He's not as aggressive as he used to be, but to me he's still over the top. He still throws fits at everything and he can only say a few words. I know children don't all talk at the same time, but to me, something is just off.

[e.j.]

This behavior is just not normal and hubby says not to say anything to them as they need to notice this for themselves.

I don't agree with your husband. The parents may not have the experience you have regarding child development and they may not know what to look for in terms of a developemental delay or neurological problem. On the positive side of things, the parents at least acknowledge that the same behaviors you see at day care also happen at home so hopefully, they'll listen to what you have to say and take your suggestions seriously.

If it were me and I suspected Asperger's or ADHD, I would make a list of the behaviors I observe during his time with me. At the very least, I would hand the parents the list and strongly suggest they make a consult appointment with their child's pediatrician and show him the list. If need be, I would even go so far as to gather information on Asperger's and ADHD, highlight the information that describes the same behaviors you're observing and suggest they bring both the list and the articles to the pediatrician. I would also explain how important it is to diagnose these disorders as early as possible.
Good luck!

[melilley]

Sorry you are going thru this kind of situation also. It is very hard. I am also working with the parents to try and figure out what to do. That is the main reason I am not terming because they are willing to work with me and they do know how he behaves. He is going to preschool 3x's a week in the morning and then comes here in the afternoon, except this week they have no preschool. I am hoping that maybe the preschool teacher will notice something if he acts like this at preschool, which I don't take him there so I don't know how he acts there,it may come across better from a teacher then the daycare provider..
I am attached to this dcb and as I said he can be really sweet, so I am really trying my hardest to help him and show him I care and love him.
I really have no place he can go and sit if he gets frustrated like you use your hall. I have a hall and 3 other bedrooms I could have him go in, but honestly, I don't trust him out of my site and then he will pull away from me if I take him and try and put him in time out, he will pull away.
I can not physically force him either, as we providers can not do much as far as discipline. So I will just walk out of the room and let him have his melt down. In my 30+ years of doing daycare, I have never had a child like him before!

Sorry you are too. I know, I just can't term. Especially since mom is working with me and we're trying to do the same things at home and here. Plus, if he goes somewhere else, who knows how they will treat him.

[Leigh]

The kid should be seeing a therapist if he is out of control. I have a kid who just turned 5 that has ODD and ADHD. He also comes from a home with abuse & neglect. When he started here, he was out of control...destroyed many things in my home (caused $800 damage his first month). I insisted that he start therapy, and while he is FAR from "under control", he is MUCH improved because he has learned how to control his emotions and his body in therapy. I would have termed any other kid, but I just couldn't kick this one out.

[Unregistered]

I'm just curious, how old was your dd when she was diagnosed? My 2 yo dcb is just like how op described, is that too young to know? My dcp talked to her doctor and they said to wait 6 more months to see and see how he is then (he would be 2 1/2 then). He's not as aggressive as he used to be, but to me he's still over the top. He still throws fits at everything and he can only say a few words. I know children don't all talk at the same time, but to me, something is just off.

She wasn't diagnosed until she was 5. Everyone kept missing it, my husband and I knew something was wrong. So we kept at it and we finally got a diagnosis of high functioning autism and DMDD. She didn't starts talking until 2.5 and when she started only a few people understood what she was saying. About 3.5 is when is started to get better. There are times even now she is difficult to understand.

Listen to your gut! If you feel something isn't right, keep pushing until someone listens to you and helps. That's what we had to do. 3 years of pushing and seeing multiple doctors. The doctor that finally helped us was hours away and we paid out of pocket for him since he was out of network. One of my old DCP said that some of these doctors might have known but due to our insurance did not inform us...like the movie John Q. She was a little different. Lol.

[cheerfuldom]

You need to do what is best for HIM, not what is best for you or even his mother. What is best for him is to be frank with the parents and provide resources for evaluations and early intervention. At 4 years old, this level of impulse control and emotional immaturity is worrisome and either it is a free for all at his house at home or there are possibly some special needs issues going on here. Trust your gut. You feel that there is something wrong here and again, you need to do what is best for him in the long run. If he is special needs, the early he can be seen by therapists and doctors and such, the better. If they start now, they could be eligible for specialized schooling option that wont be available if they wait too long! that is the case for many special needs kids. The parents wait till kinder or 1st grade and by then, the options for schooling are few and they have let years go by that could have been spent figuring out their childs specific needs. I am assuming your husband does not work at the daycare, does not have years of experience with kids, does not know how to recognize flags for special needs kids....in other words, why are you listening to him?

[cheerfuldom]

She wasn't diagnosed until she was 5. Everyone kept missing it, my husband and I knew something was wrong. So we kept at it and we finally got a diagnosis of high functioning autism and DMDD. She didn't starts talking until 2.5 and when she started only a few people understood what she was saying. About 3.5 is when is started to get better. There are times even now she is difficult to understand.

Listen to your gut! If you feel something isn't right, keep pushing until someone listens to you and helps. That's what we had to do. 3 years of pushing and seeing multiple doctors. The doctor that finally helped us was hours away and we paid out of pocket for him since he was out of network. One of my old DCP said that some of these doctors might have known but due to our insurance did not inform us...like the movie John Q. She was a little different. Lol.

I agree! I knew something was wrong with my daughter from birth. I just knew it. Everyone, including my husband, tried to convince me that she would grow out of it and that she was just fine. I pushed and pushed and now she is doing so much better at a specialized preschool. We are just beginning our journey but I am so glad I did not listen to everyone else. She does not have a diagnosis yet but I do know for sure she has sensory issues and we are looking into treatment for ADHD. She is 4.5.

[nannyde]

Please don't take offense but I think your husbands response is based on him wanting the money not what is best for the kid or you. I've seen many times in counseling providers that the husbands exact pressure to put up with kids because they want money. I'm not married but I wouldn't consider taking advice from someone who is not experienced in child care.

[Heidi]

You need to do what is best for HIM, not what is best for you or even his mother. What is best for him is to be frank with the parents and provide resources for evaluations and early intervention. At 4 years old, this level of impulse control and emotional immaturity is worrisome and either it is a free for all at his house at home or there are possibly some special needs issues going on here. Trust your gut. You feel that there is something wrong here and again, you need to do what is best for him in the long run. If he is special needs, the early he can be seen by therapists and doctors and such, the better. If they start now, they could be eligible for specialized schooling option that wont be available if they wait too long! that is the case for many special needs kids. The parents wait till kinder or 1st grade and by then, the options for schooling are few and they have let years go by that could have been spent figuring out their childs specific needs. I am assuming your husband does not work at the daycare, does not have years of experience with kids, does not know how to recognize flags for special needs kids....in other words, why are you listening to him?

The oldest of the family I termed last year was exactly as OP describes. He is absolutely NOT on the spectrum, does not have ADD, etc. He's just a plain old run-of-the-mill spoiled brat.

There is a very simple test that will give you a good idea of whether he is in control or out of control (out of his control, that is). If, in the middle of a rage, you said "hey, dcb...here is a cookie" (or something he really wants, or whatever he is raging for). Would he STOP the tantrum? That would indicate control and manipulation. My dcb was in total control, and would go from full-on tantrum to sweet smile in seconds when he got his way.


Edited to add: In our case, dh was home a few times and witnessed the above kiddo's behavior. His comment was "there is DEFINATELY something wrong with that kid". Not the most kind way to put it, but he meant behaviorally, not clinically. I also had is 1-year younger sister and 2-year younger twin brothers. Guess what THEY were like? Still are...I just got a report today from their current provider.

[caregiver]

The oldest of the family I termed last year was exactly as OP describes. He is absolutely NOT on the spectrum, does not have ADD, etc. He's just a plain old run-of-the-mill spoiled brat.

There is a very simple test that will give you a good idea of whether he is in control or out of control (out of his control, that is). If, in the middle of a rage, you said "hey, dcb...here is a cookie" (or something he really wants, or whatever he is raging for). Would he STOP the tantrum? That would indicate control and manipulation. My dcb was in total control, and would go from full-on tantrum to sweet smile in seconds when he got his way.


Edited to add: In our case, dh was home a few times and witnessed the above kiddo's behavior. His comment was "there is DEFINATELY something wrong with that kid". Not the most kind way to put it, but he meant behaviorally, not clinically. I also had is 1-year younger sister and 2-year younger twin brothers. Guess what THEY were like? Still are...I just got a report today from their current provider.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will try that and see what he does.

[daycare]

I have not read all of the responses.

this sounds like one of my old DCKs

the parents had the same issues at home because there was no consistency with displing the child. Lots of stupid threats like, if you do that again I will tie you to the top of the car WTH......

I stopped DCD dead in his tracks and told him 1. don't ever threaten your child ever again in my home and 2. stop with the stupid threats that you and the kid both know you are not going to do anyway. Consequences need to be realistic.

Here is how I helped my DCK. I had to be proactive and stop the things before they started. If I knew that he was going to have a melt down because of the chair situation, then I would put name stickers on the chairs of table so the children always know where to sit and there is never an issue.

If I knew that the child screamed every time I said I was cooking food, then I would be sure to tell the kid, I know you are hungry, so I am going to make you something to eat. While the food is cooking, lets color.

Basically what I am trying to say is that you need to find a way to be proactive about this. Stop it before it happens. If you take a day and just observe him, you still see his triggers and see when he is about to act out in bad behavior. ONce you learn that, you will be able to stop them before they start.

Every day I have to sit with one of my DCKS and remind him, today we are going to have nice hands. Remember hands are for holding and using gentle touches. I do this about 10 times a day with this kid and it works.

I am sure to give 25 affirmations a day and 3 or less prohibitions.

and by affirmations I don't mean stuff like oh billy you are so wonderful. It can be something as just smiling at the kid and letting them know that you are aware of them.

kids like this can break us....... I hope this helps some, but I know it's not possible to save them all...