How Much Misbehavior/Disobedience Do You Put Up With?

[AcornMama]

I have a 3yo dcg who is my greatest challenge, behavior-wise, of my 3 dcks. Today she has been very difficult. Isolated, none of her behaviors are a big problem, it's just the all day from one child aspect that makes her a challenge.

For example, this dcg is constantly putting her fingers in her nose and mouth. Every time I see it I take her to wash her hands. Today while we were working on art projects, I was helping one child, when I look over to see that she is taking two fingers (one from each hand) that are covered in spit, and wiping the spit all over the table. At that point I removed her from art, cleaned the table, and she washed her hands.

She also pushed another child down during outside play. She has also taken toys, thrown fits, and generally been a problem.

Underneath her behavior is an attitude of "I don't have to do anything you say." I know this is her underlying attitude, because every time I give her an instruction she doesn't like, her response is, "My Mommy says I don't have to do that." In and of itself, I don't care, she doesn't intimidate me, I just share this to show her thought process.

As a mom, I know exactly how I would handle this with my own kids. I'm not harsh, but I'm pretty no-nonsense.

I'm thinking about addressing it at pickup today and letting mom and grandma (both drop off and pick up) know about today as a warning, and that continued days with behavior like this will result in my calling for an early pickup.

Is this too harsh? How much general misbehavior and disobedience do you allow to go on? FWIW, my program is childcare set up much like a preschool. We have school breaks and school supplies and school rules. And all of my dck's have back-up extended family who have been providing care for the child before they were enrolled with me. So it wouldn't be impossible for someone to pick up due to bad behavior.

I'm not new to parenting, but I am new to this business, so I'd love advice. Do you call for pick-up when kids are just refusing to cooperate? Or do you just deal with it as part of the job? I don't want to be unreasonable with my families. Any ideas or feedback?

[DaisyMamma]

Make sure the parents know this is going on.
My advice is to not put up with it. If you have to, then term. Its the best thing for your sanity. I had three kids like that last year. It practically broke me. I got completely burned out.
Im now part time and don't even consider kids whose parents describe them as "busy"
I have all quiet well behaved kids and I'm so much happier.

[AcornMama]

Make sure the parents know this is going on.
My advice is to not put up with it. If you have to, then term. Its the best thing for your sanity. I had three kids like that last year. It practically broke me. I got completely burned out.
Im now part time and don't even consider kids whose parents describe them as "busy"
I have all quiet well behaved kids and I'm so much happier.

Yeah, my own kids are quiet well behaved kids because that's what I've expected and taught. And my other two dck's are sweet kids who generally obey and cooperate, so no complaints there.

Do you think it's reasonable to give a warning now and call for pick up if there's another day when dcg is just unwilling to cooperate at all?

[TwinKristi]

How long has she been with you? Have you previously talked to parents about it?

[AcornMama]

How long has she been with you? Have you previously talked to parents about it?

She's been here 4 weeks. I have addressed specific things before with mom. For example:

1. One day I called mom and said that dcg was having a really bad day and was there anything I should know, like did she have a bad night's sleep or something? Mom said she did wake up in the night and hadn't slept well since then. Early nap that day seemed to take care of it. Mom was receptive to my call.

2. Another time I had to tell mom that dcg was using inappropriate language (d@mn it). I told mom that I needed her to back me up on it at home, that I can't have that in my program. Mom agreed to address it at home.

Today was the first day I just wanted to call and say come get her, I'm done. But I want to be professional. So I thought I'd talk about today's behavior at pickup, but let them know that if we have another day where she just won't cooperate, that I'll have to call for pick-up. And I don't know if that's reasonable, or me just being irritated.

[Stepping]

I had similar issues with a 4 year old dcb last year except he was also very aggressive and emotionally volatile.

I started a long process of dealing with this.
First, I made it clear to parents at pick up if it had been a bad day. I also documented specific incidents on baby connect if they were serious - usually aggression towards myself or other dck's.

Then I introduced a new behavior policy that I had all parents sign. It made things clear regarding behavior and what steps would be taken. For example, 3 incidents in a day would mean early pick up. I also made it clear that continued disruptive behavior would result in termination.

I implemented a 2 week observation period where I recorded every single incident using an abc behavior chart. After that I met with parents to discuss an action plan to improve the behavior.

Unfortunately, with this dcb his behavior escalated and because his parents did not stick to the steps outlined in the action plan, I did end up terminating their contract.

I felt completely justified whenever I sent him home early as I had everything stated clearly in the policy. I also had everything documented when it came to terminating the contract so their was no dispute regarding how things were handled.

Good luck - I know how exhausting it is to deal with a difficult child every single day.

[WImom]

Make sure the parents know this is going on.
My advice is to not put up with it. If you have to, then term. Its the best thing for your sanity. I had three kids like that last year. It practically broke me. I got completely burned out.
Im now part time and don't even consider kids whose parents describe them as "busy"
I have all quiet well behaved kids and I'm so much happier.

This is what I NEED to do. I so miss my old group. This new group is so challenging and I'm starting to feel burnt out. I want to love my job again! I just posted about one change I'm making and I may make more if need be. Hoping this one will make a world of difference first.

It's great that mom seems to be cooperating. I always try harder to keep them if parents are helping to stop the behavior.

[preschoolteacher]

Maybe you haven't explained everything, but I don't think those behaviors from a 3 year old justify an early pick-up. If the child was a threat to herself, to others, or to your property (breaking toys, throwing things), and you could not handle it with the rest of the group, THEN I would call for her to go home. If the little girl is being kind of a pain and wiping her drool on your table, as gross as it may be, it's developmentally-appropriate behavior (testing your rules), and it's part of the job. Picking her nose, taking toys, throwing fits, all of those things are normal in moderation for a 3 year old.

Pushing a child down once outside is also normal, in my opinion. It should be dealt with immediately and there should be consequences if it happens again. If it happens often, I would consider sending home since you need to keep everyone safe. But once isn't the end of the world for a child this age... an older kid, yes, I'd be more concerned.

I had a really difficult child when I first opened. I considered terming, but the parents were so willing to work with me, that I gave it a shot. It took 6 weeks, but then overnight something seemed to click. Now, I don't have any more hitting, temper tantrums, and so on from this child like I used to. It's been good for 2 months now.

But if you're not willing to wait it out, I'd consider telling the parents. Sometimes kids and providers just don't connect or bond. Nothing wrong with you or the child, but there are just people out there that we just don't get along with! If you think this child might be pushing your buttons more than her behavior calls for, there's nothing wrong with realizing it, and ending the care relationship.

[AcornMama]

Maybe you haven't explained everything, but I don't think those behaviors from a 3 year old justify an early pick-up. If the child was a threat to herself, to others, or to your property (breaking toys, throwing things), and you could not handle it with the rest of the group, THEN I would call for her to go home. If the little girl is being kind of a pain and wiping her drool on your table, as gross as it may be, it's developmentally-appropriate behavior (testing your rules), and it's part of the job. Picking her nose, taking toys, throwing fits, all of those things are normal in moderation for a 3 year old.

Pushing a child down once outside is also normal, in my opinion. It should be dealt with immediately and there should be consequences if it happens again. If it happens often, I would consider sending home since you need to keep everyone safe. But once isn't the end of the world for a child this age... an older kid, yes, I'd be more concerned.

Thanks, this is helpful feedback. And no, I didn't list everything, but yes, most of it just three year old behavior, it's just that there's so much of it, it affects the whole group's ability to enjoy the day.

Mom didn't pick up, grandmother did, so I just addressed dcg directly at pick up: "Here, let me help you with your zipper. We're going to work on having a better day tomorrow, right? And we're going to play nicely with our friends, right?" Grandma looked horrified and embarrassed.

And I know that pushing limits is developmentally normal, but I'm old school, and I also know that obedience and respect can be developmentally normal at this age. I've seen it in my own kids, and in my other dcks. Maybe I'm too old fashioned for this business.

[caregiver]

I have a 4 yr old DCB now who is a handful. I almost termed with him the first week, but have learned how to handle him. I also have his 2 yr old sister and between the two of them it is very challenging. The 4 yr old was hitting,pushing and had a lot of temper tantrums when he first came here and I told his parents that if this behavior continued, he could not come here as I don't run that kind of a daycare. They told me to handle him however I wanted as they were having problems at home with him and were at their wits end on how to deal with him. So the 3 of us are working together to help this DCB,which is nice to have the parents work with me and have their support.
He has some good days where he behaves really well and can be such a sweetheart and other days he can be such a handful. I am just dealing with it all and hoping he will stop all his bad behavior soon. So I guess I put up with a lot of stuff, hoping it will stop soon. Now the 2 yr old sister is starting to act up also, so I am trying to take care of that behavior before it gets too far. I really hate to give up on these kids because they really can be good kids and I have become really attached to them, but if push comes to shove, I will term them if their behavior doesn't get better here in the next few months. I really don't need all this stress and I do get so exhausted by the time the day is over. I just crash after dinner. It is only my husband & I at home now as my kids are all grown and out of the house.

[AcornMama]

...I told his parents that if this behavior continued, he could not come here as I don't run that kind of a daycare. They told me to handle him however I wanted as they were having problems at home with him and were at their wits end on how to deal with him. So the 3 of us are working together to help this DCB,which is nice to have the parents work with me and have their support.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I suspect this is where I'm heading with my dcg, making a behavior plan with parents, and terming if things don't improve after that.

Like I said in my op, individually, her behaviors are things I can easily handle. It's the all day, each day she's here compounded effects that are driving me crazy.

This morning when grandma dropped off dcg, she told me that dcg had been giving her all kinds of trouble already, and to feel free and call if it kept up and that grandma would come get here. I never mentioned sending home for bad behavior, and grandma volunteered the idea on her own, so I think grandma must be seeing the same things, and it seems like she's frustrated by it also.

[caregiver]

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Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I suspect this is where I'm heading with my dcg, making a behavior plan with parents, and terming if things don't improve after that.

Like I said in my op, individually, her behaviors are things I can easily handle. It's the all day, each day she's here compounded effects that are driving me crazy.

This morning when grandma dropped off dcg, she told me that dcg had been giving her all kinds of trouble already, and to feel free and call if it kept up and that grandma would come get here. I never mentioned sending home for bad behavior, and grandma volunteered the idea on her own, so I think grandma must be seeing the same things, and it seems like she's frustrated by it also.

[KIDZRMYBIZ]

And I know that pushing limits is developmentally normal, but I'm old school, and I also know that obedience and respect can be developmentally normal at this age. I've seen it in my own kids, and in my other dcks. Maybe I'm too old fashioned for this business.

Hear! Hear!

My own children, too, are so much better behaved than the majority of kids I've had in care as well. I think it just goes in line with parents spending more time with their electronic devices than with their children, and being afraid of telling them "no" when they do happen to give them some of their attention. I'm afraid respect, obedience, and self-control are words from the past, for now anyway.

Many of my dck's turn into little monsters and devils when mom and dad are on the scene, but otherwise do learn that I have rules and expectations that they will follow, even at 3yo.

I think you are doing the right thing, except instead of calling parents for pick-up (which is probably just what your dcg wants, and will act up daily just to get to go home to bedlam), I would make the consequence for rude, disgusting, or aggressive behavior leave a more lasting impression.