Please..Deal With Your Child. Am I Wrong?

[cheerfuldom]

I keep it simple. use the cold weather in your favor. get the kids ready as best you can and walk them out your front door and do not let mom enter the house leave the whole family outside and close your door on them. she either gets it together to get them in the car and gone or they all freeze in the front yard while mom plays "whos the boss?" with her preschoolers. trust me, the colder it gets, the better the lesson if they really get out of hand, I would dress both kids and walk them out to the car, put them in the seats (mom can do one, you do one) and again, do not allow mom in your house or even to your door until she can handle the kids alone. I would rather do the extra work of walking them out then let mom drag on the fight for 20 minutes at the end of the day.

[Heidi]

I keep it simple. use the cold weather in your favor. get the kids ready as best you can and walk them out your front door and do not let mom enter the house leave the whole family outside and close your door on them. she either gets it together to get them in the car and gone or they all freeze in the front yard while mom plays "whos the boss?" with her preschoolers. trust me, the colder it gets, the better the lesson if they really get out of hand, I would dress both kids and walk them out to the car, put them in the seats (mom can do one, you do one) and again, do not allow mom in your house or even to your door until she can handle the kids alone. I would rather do the extra work of walking them out then let mom drag on the fight for 20 minutes at the end of the day.

The 4 kids from that family I had a couple years ago (and eventually termed...the 5 year old above included) would run around like crazy animals the minute mom showed up...inside or out. I learned really quick that it was better if I got them ready, then we'd sing a few songs or do finger-plays. Then I'd take 2/4 firmly by the hand and walk them to the car. I'd pin one between my legs, put the other in the seat, buckle him in, go around the car, buckle number two in. Meantime, she's chasing the older two around the yard, saying "get in the car, get in the car", while they ran off in different directions, laughing hysterically. Sometimes one would get in the car, grab things, "drive", etc. She'd eventually drive away with FOUR children screaming at the top of their lungs. Complete Choas. I told my dh that I'd probably take up smoking, just so I could pull over at the side of the road halfway home for a cigarette.

It was pretty awful, and I know they've been through 2 daycares since mine. The woman who has them now only has the younger twins (now 3), and she's my back-up mailperson. Luckily for former dcm, this woman is a saint and only has the 2 kids.

Oh...and I agree with the using the cold weather to your favor. Kind of what I was suggesting, too, about picking your battles. It's definitely a natural consequence to freeze your a** off.

[misslori50]

the problem is that the role playing and teaching the child about transitions isn't the problem. He's two. I don't know how two he is but by two he should completely understand how to get ready, clean up, and follow directions from the adult. I have infants under one who can do this. He's way way way too old to need an education about transitioning.

I could be wrong but my guess is that the real escalator here is the fact that this family has two children with two slots in the day care. The provider doesn't want to upset the parent because she doesn't want to loose the income of two kids.

Everyone knows this. The mom knows it. The four year old knows it. The two year old knows it. They all know it because they see the provider change her behavior during this time to accommodate and make it look like all is well.

That's bad for everyone. The mom, four year old, and two year old need to get with the program and know that while on the providers property they all need to behave.

The four year old needs to mind her own beeswax and quit telling the adult what to do. She doesn't get to get by with interjecting herself and her opinion into this. She needs to follow directions and sit quietly until it's time for her to go outside.

The mom needs to respect that she is on the soil of another adult who does not like witnessing much less hosting her two year old behaving like a little animal. She needs to have respect for the adult. She needs to get ugly with that kid and get him to knock it off. If they want to play like that at home that's between them and jesus. If they are out in public they need to behave. The provider is off the clock the second the mom hits the property. The mom needs to get her kids out the door and get them out of the driveway asap.

Since these kids are the last out the door the provider needs to get the older one out... Shut the door... Go super strict with the two year old and lay the law down. Hand walk him to mom outside and hand his hand into her hand. Let the mom know that under no circumstances is she to let go of him until she has him buckled in the seat. He is not to step away from the car. If she allows him to walk away from the car then she will no longer be allowed the privledge of picking up in the driveway. He will have to be taken to the street. Once his feet are off of the provider property she is done done done. If the mom allows him to go back onto the property then she is liable for anything that happens like she would be if he went to raise hell on anyone elses property.

This kid will enjoy the play acting and it may be interesting enough to be entertained with it for a few days but because transitions are not the problem it will be a mere distraction. He wants to start home behavior as soon as he can. He wants to start the change in provider behavior as soon as he can. He wants mom on site so he can act like an animal. He understands exactly what the provider wants as she is doing like things with him all day. He is just saying no to it. That's the problem.. Not him understanding.

I'm not opposed to the technique of play acting. It will be an activity. You can color it... Play doh it... Sing it... Exercise it... Same difference.

love it

[providerandmomof4]

The problem is that the role playing and teaching the child about transitions isn't the problem. He's two. I don't know how two he is but by two he should COMPLETELY understand how to get ready, clean up, and follow directions from the adult. I have infants under one who can do this. He's WAY WAY WAY too old to need an education about transitioning.

I could be wrong but my guess is that the real escalator here is the fact that this family has two children with two slots in the day care. The provider doesn't want to upset the parent because she doesn't want to loose the income of two kids.

EVERYONE knows this. The Mom knows it. The four year old knows it. The two year old knows it. They ALL know it because they see the provider change her behavior during this time to accommodate and make it look like all is well.

That's bad for everyone. The Mom, four year old, and two year old need to get with the program and know that while on the providers property they ALL need to BEHAVE.

The four year old needs to mind her own beeswax and quit telling the adult what to do. She doesn't get to get by with interjecting herself and her opinion into this. She needs to follow directions and sit quietly until it's time for her to go outside.

The Mom needs to respect that she is on the soil of another adult who does not like witnessing much less hosting her two year old behaving like a little animal. She needs to have RESPECT for the adult. She needs to get ugly with that kid and get him to KNOCK IT OFF. If they want to play like that at home that's between them and Jesus. If they are out in public they need to behave. The provider is off the clock the second the mom hits the property. The Mom needs to get her kids out the door and get them OUT of the driveway asap.

Since these kids are the last out the door the provider needs to get the older one out... shut the door... go SUPER strict with the two year old and lay the law down. Hand walk him to Mom outside and hand his hand into her hand. Let the Mom know that under NO circumstances is she to let go of him until she has him BUCKLED in the seat. He is not to step away from the car. If she allows him to walk away from the car then she will no longer be allowed the privledge of picking up in the driveway. He will have to be taken to the street. Once his feet are OFF of the provider property she is DONE DONE DONE. If the Mom allows him to go back onto the property then she is liable for anything that happens like she would be if he went to raise hell on anyone elses property.

This kid will enjoy the play acting and it may be interesting enough to be entertained with it for a few days but because transitions are not the problem it will be a mere distraction. He wants to start home behavior as soon as he can. He wants to start the change in provider behavior as soon as he can. He wants mom on site so he can act like an animal. He understands exactly what the provider wants as she is doing like things with him all day. He is just saying no to it. That's the problem.. not him understanding.

I'm not opposed to the technique of play acting. It will be an activity. You can color it... play doh it... sing it... exercise it... same difference.

Nannyde hit the nail on the head here. We transition all day long and although sometimes he struggles more than others, he know that he will eventually have to do what I want him (and all the other 2 yr olds) to do. They all know that we pick up after every activity. They all know we put shoes and coats on before playing outside. No issues. But when it's time for mom to come......complete transition in his behavior. He knows that I will not make him in front of dcm and exactly the reasons why nannyde afore mentioned! No more. We will do pick ups at the door. I always write a daily report and I guess if dcm needs to talk with me about anything she can call me.

[Heidi]

Nannyde hit the nail on the head here. We transition all day long and although sometimes he struggles more than others, he know that he will eventually have to do what I want him (and all the other 2 yr olds) to do. They all know that we pick up after every activity. They all know we put shoes and coats on before playing outside. No issues. But when it's time for mom to come......complete transition in his behavior. He knows that I will not make him in front of dcm and exactly the reasons why nannyde afore mentioned! No more. We will do pick ups at the door. I always write a daily report and I guess if dcm needs to talk with me about anything she can call me.

[GKJNIGMN]

I cannot stress enough to listen to Nannyde's advice. I read her advised regarding this subject and was skeptical but tried it consistently with one who's mother was having to chase her through my house and baby and bribe her and it was still hit and miss getting her out sometimes taking 20 minutes or more.

After following the advice, getting the child ready myself, no longer having the mother come into the house.....I no longer struggle with this child regarding this issue or very rarely. Once in a while she still refuses to get ready and I simply do it for her and then have her sit by herself until her mom comes.

Keep in mind, the parent will still struggle. Once the mom tries to get her into the car it is chaos. She will run away, kick, scream, demand to wander through my yard and pick flowers or get leaves or whatever tactic she can but honestly she is out of my house and I can move on with my day. Her mother just can't take control but that isn't my struggle it's hers.

[JoseyJo]

I just started this with 2 of my kiddos the end of last week. In one case dcm was very on board and now p/u is a dream!

In the other case is my problem family/cousin of my husband where dcm/dcgma are NEVER on board. Today dcb's gma came at pu (he is 5 by the way) and I had him completely dressed sitting at the table by the door with stickers and a piece of paper. Very clear instructions that he was to get up, get his bag, and walk out the door w/ gma. No procrastinating, no leaving the door area.

When gma walks he procrastinates by having to put all the stickers on the paper (instead of taking them with him as I told him), then taking items out of his bag to show gma, asking questions he already knows the answer to, etc. Gma procrastinates too by deciding he needs to get his wet gloves and hat out of the bag and put them on, needs to get out the tablet dcm sent for him to use at her house now and hand it to him instead of waiting until they get to the car, and to look at his art paper and comment on it to him about how smart he is - ALL things done just as well in the car or at home.

I have tried to give the bag straight to gma but she hands it to him even though I have asked her not to. I could just not send anything home w/ her but I would still have to send home the gloves/hat.

The only idea I could come up with for tomorrow was to have him sit with no paper, no stickers, and to tie the bag shut so he cant get in it, or to have him sit with hat and gloves and coat on until gma arrives.

Ideas?

[Leanna]

Maybe I am very very jaded, but this post made me laugh out loud! To me this sounds like either a CDA student right out of school... I can't imagine this provider has ever dealt with a child like the one described by the OP.

Choosing to use developmentally appropriate practices does not and should not mark one as "inexperienced." I don't think this suggestion is at all laughable...in fact, this, along with some of the things Heidi suggested (limited choices, a calm table activity before pick-up, having mom text when she is five minutes away) are all things I would suggest/have done/have had success with.

The suggestion of forcing the boy to go through a fake transition multiple times a day complete with clean-up, dressing, and sitting still is far from appropriate. There is no learning involved in this. Oh sure, the boy will comply after a while - but out of frustration, exhaustion, and boredom - NOT because he learned anything.

[Heidi]

I just started this with 2 of my kiddos the end of last week. In one case dcm was very on board and now p/u is a dream!

In the other case is my problem family/cousin of my husband where dcm/dcgma are NEVER on board. Today dcb's gma came at pu (he is 5 by the way) and I had him completely dressed sitting at the table by the door with stickers and a piece of paper. Very clear instructions that he was to get up, get his bag, and walk out the door w/ gma. No procrastinating, no leaving the door area.

When gma walks he procrastinates by having to put all the stickers on the paper (instead of taking them with him as I told him), then taking items out of his bag to show gma, asking questions he already knows the answer to, etc. Gma procrastinates too by deciding he needs to get his wet gloves and hat out of the bag and put them on, needs to get out the tablet dcm sent for him to use at her house now and hand it to him instead of waiting until they get to the car, and to look at his art paper and comment on it to him about how smart he is - ALL things done just as well in the car or at home.

I have tried to give the bag straight to gma but she hands it to him even though I have asked her not to. I could just not send anything home w/ her but I would still have to send home the gloves/hat.

The only idea I could come up with for tomorrow was to have him sit with no paper, no stickers, and to tie the bag shut so he cant get in it, or to have him sit with hat and gloves and coat on until gma arrives.

Ideas?

Lock the front door, wait for Gma to knock, and hand him out.

HAVE A GREAT NIGHT, DCB AND GRANDMA!

[craftymissbeth]

Choosing to use developmentally appropriate practices does not and should not mark one as "inexperienced." I don't think this suggestion is at all laughable...in fact, this, along with some of the things Heidi suggested (limited choices, a calm table activity before pick-up, having mom text when she is five minutes away) are all things I would suggest/have done/have had success with.

The suggestion of forcing the boy to go through a fake transition multiple times a day complete with clean-up, dressing, and sitting still is far from appropriate. There is no learning involved in this. Oh sure, the boy will comply after a while - but out of frustration, exhaustion, and boredom - NOT because he learned anything.

Out of curiosity, what's wrong with a child doing something because that's what's expected of them? To be completely honest I don't care if a child complies out of frustration, boredom, or exhaustion... if it's a normal thing that is expected out of every capable child then they should just DO it.

There are too many people who believe the best way to get a child to comply is to make it fun. No, life is NOT always fun and there are things expected of everyone that we do not enjoy doing... yet we must do them. For a capable 2 year old one of those things is to get dressed and ready to go home from daycare.

I'm not talking being a harda** and that's certainly not how I am with my dck's, but I do expect great (reasonable) things from them and not a single one has ever let me down or made me think they are incapable if it's not fun.

[JoseyJo]

Lock the front door, wait for Gma to knock, and hand him out.

HAVE A GREAT NIGHT, DCB AND GRANDMA!

LOL! How come I never thought about locking the door? That's a great idea and totally solves the problem Tomorrow at 4:05 my door will be locked

[Heidi]

LOL! How come I never thought about locking the door? That's a great idea and totally solves the problem Tomorrow at 4:05 my door will be locked

:::::::::hug:::::::

That gma is trying to be the rooster in YOUR henhouse. Now you're being the fox, I guess...

[providerandmomof4]

Out of curiosity, what's wrong with a child doing something because that's what's expected of them? To be completely honest I don't care if a child complies out of frustration, boredom, or exhaustion... if it's a normal thing that is expected out of every capable child then they should just DO it.

There are too many people who believe the best way to get a child to comply is to make it fun. No, life is NOT always fun and there are things expected of everyone that we do not enjoy doing... yet we must do them. For a capable 2 year old one of those things is to get dressed and ready to go home from daycare.

I'm not talking being a harda** and that's certainly not how I am with my dck's, but I do expect great (reasonable) things from them and not a single one has ever let me down or made me think they are incapable if it's not fun.

I think that we are setting our children up for issues if everything is a game and fun, fun, fun. There comes a point when we shouldn't have to coerce, or bribe to get a child to do the simplest task. Like not throwing a colossal fit just because I want him to put his shoes and socks on. This is why he won't do it in the first place. He knows that at home he will get a sticker, tattoo, candy, just for doing what every other child is expected to do without reward. Then when mom walks in, she proceeds to tell him what a great job he is doing because he is not punching her in the face today. Which by the way he has done to her at pickup.

[Leanna]

Out of curiosity, what's wrong with a child doing something because that's what's expected of them? To be completely honest I don't care if a child complies out of frustration, boredom, or exhaustion... if it's a normal thing that is expected out of every capable child then they should just DO it.

There are too many people who believe the best way to get a child to comply is to make it fun. No, life is NOT always fun and there are things expected of everyone that we do not enjoy doing... yet we must do them. For a capable 2 year old one of those things is to get dressed and ready to go home from daycare.

I'm not talking being a harda** and that's certainly not how I am with my dck's, but I do expect great (reasonable) things from them and not a single one has ever let me down or made me think they are incapable if it's not fun.

I think that we are setting our children up for issues if everything is a game and fun, fun, fun. There comes a point when we shouldn't have to coerce, or bribe to get a child to do the simplest task. Like not throwing a colossal fit just because I want him to put his shoes and socks on. This is why he won't do it in the first place. He knows that at home he will get a sticker, tattoo, candy, just for doing what every other child is expected to do without reward. Then when mom walks in, she proceeds to tell him what a great job he is doing because he is not punching her in the face today. Which by the way he has done to her at pickup.

I do not believe in rewarding children for doing what they are supposed to do.

I do expect children to follow directions without coercion or bribing.

I do NOT however, believe in engaging in practices that serve no other purpose but to wear down a two-year-old into compliance.

[nannyde]

Choosing to use developmentally appropriate practices does not and should not mark one as "inexperienced." I don't think this suggestion is at all laughable...in fact, this, along with some of the things Heidi suggested (limited choices, a calm table activity before pick-up, having mom text when she is five minutes away) are all things I would suggest/have done/have had success with.

The suggestion of forcing the boy to go through a fake transition multiple times a day complete with clean-up, dressing, and sitting still is far from appropriate. There is no learning involved in this. Oh sure, the boy will comply after a while - but out of frustration, exhaustion, and boredom - NOT because he learned anything.

Forcing him to dress a teddy bear is appropriate? Forcing him to sing a goodbye song is appropriate?

Developmentally appropriate is in the eye of the beholder. So is “forcing".

Practice makes perfect. Repetition enhances learning.

He needs the EXPERIENCE of having to do the right thing over and over. He needs to have the expectation of compliance be his minute to minute. In his care. . Right now... this is what he NEEDS. He is two. He is a toddler. He doesn't have to solve world peace or negotiate a hostile takeover. He has NOTHING in his daycare life more important than doing this ONE THING well.

Success with this one thing will net his caretaker happiness. It's worth the investment of time for a couple of weeks to get this done and down pat. If he gets it in a couple of days... coolio. If he protests then he needs more practice. Practice till he gets it right.