Snow Day !

[The Onceler]

I can totally relate to this post. Where I live, we get lots of snowstorms, and I am always shocked at some parents that are willing to bring their kids out in terrible and dangerous road conditions........ Anyway, you know the parent can explore other options, but chooses to put you in the awkward position of having to tell them no- drives me crazy!

As always, there's two sides to every story. I'll agree that if the conditions are truly bad, a parent should keep their child/children home. On the other hand, our daycare closes at the drop of a hat during the winter. Here's our situation:

Home daycare, run from the owner's own house. No staff, just them. When we first interviewed, they specifically said that because they ran the business from home, they were always open.

If they close during a real snow storm, I'm perfectly fine with that. But they follow the local school district's delays and closings regardless of the actual conditions. Just this week, our local school district closed for 2 days, and the daycare followed suit. There was no more than a 1/2 inch of accumulation between both days, and that was on yards and off the road. There was virtually no actual accumulation on the roads. On one day, it didn't even start snowing until after noon, and then it was just flurries for 2-3 hours.

I still don't understand the justification for them closing in these situations - they don't need to travel anywhere, they don't depend on staff who need to travel. During the winters, their driveway becomes permanently covered with snow for several months, they just throw sand on it. The point being these snow days posed zero additional liability for them than they face on a daily basis every winter.

To make matters worse, they had scheduled a "personal training day" for the third day, so they remained closed 3 consecutive days. You would think that if they're already taking a day off, they would be a little more lenient about unscheduled closings during the same week, especially if the actual conditions don't, in any possible way, justify it.

And before people jump to defend them, I run my own business too. I get no paid vacation, I get no paid sick time. If I don't work a day, I don't get paid that day. Now I'm not criticizing or complaining about paying for their vacation days, sick days, etc. That's fine. But I absolutely don't accept that it's legitimate for them to arbitrarily follow the local school district's closings regardless of the actual conditions.

[originalkat]

I close when the local school district closes due to bad weather. Typically, they only close when the winter weather is quite severe so I feel comfortable following their closings. However, if I felt they closed at the drop of a hat (or snowflake) then I would reconsider my policy.

I changed to the policy of closing with the school district for 2 main reasons:

1) They factor many things into the decision to close and I have a hard time judging the severity of the conditions when I haven't even left the house and am only watching the local news station. The district has a lot more resources at their disposal when they make the decision to close or not close.

2) When I used to leave it up to the parents I would have all but 1 stay home and the one that did show up had other options. That irritated me. Especially when I have to shovel my extremely long drive and salt everything before they arrive for just 1 child.

So no more...now I follow the inclement weather closings of the local school district.

[The Onceler]

Typically, they only close when the winter weather is quite severe so I feel comfortable following their closings. However, if I felt they closed at the drop of a hat (or snowflake) then I would reconsider my policy.

At least around here, it's typical, and has been since I was in school, for the districts to close when the first snowflake hits the ground early in the winter. It's almost as if there's this pent up desire for snow days, and the first time it snows, the schools close, regardless of the actual conditions. As I said, this week, our district closed two consecutive days for a 1/2 inch of snow across those two days.

As I said, if it was a real snow storm, fine, but closing on days like these is unjustifiable.

2) When I used to leave it up to the parents I would have all but 1 stay home and the one that did show up had other options. That irritated me. Especially when I have to shovel my extremely long drive and salt everything before they arrive for just 1 child.

This, I don't understand. To me, that would be part of running your business. If you're getting paid for X number of kids regardless of how many actually show up, then there's no increased effort to pay ratio for having to shovel a driveway even if only a single kid comes in. On the entire day, it's actually far less effort for the pay if you only need to take care of one child - the shoveling is the same effort, but the actual childcare is less. If you're not getting paid for the kids that don't show up, fine. If you are, then I'm sorry, it's simply not a legitimate reason.

I guess it's just a different mindset. As I said, I run my own business too. If I don't work, I don't get paid, and I don't expect to. I couldn't imagine taking a customer's money and then simply denying service because on a particular day, I had to put forth the exact same effort as any other day, but only for a single child.

[Blackcat31]

As always, there's two sides to every story. I'll agree that if the conditions are truly bad, a parent should keep their child/children home. On the other hand, our daycare closes at the drop of a hat during the winter. Here's our situation:

Home daycare, run from the owner's own house. No staff, just them. When we first interviewed, they specifically said that because they ran the business from home, they were always open.

If they close during a real snow storm, I'm perfectly fine with that. But they follow the local school district's delays and closings regardless of the actual conditions. Just this week, our local school district closed for 2 days, and the daycare followed suit. There was no more than a 1/2 inch of accumulation between both days, and that was on yards and off the road. There was virtually no actual accumulation on the roads. On one day, it didn't even start snowing until after noon, and then it was just flurries for 2-3 hours.

I still don't understand the justification for them closing in these situations - they don't need to travel anywhere, they don't depend on staff who need to travel. During the winters, their driveway becomes permanently covered with snow for several months, they just throw sand on it. The point being these snow days posed zero additional liability for them than they face on a daily basis every winter.

To make matters worse, they had scheduled a "personal training day" for the third day, so they remained closed 3 consecutive days. You would think that if they're already taking a day off, they would be a little more lenient about unscheduled closings during the same week, especially if the actual conditions don't, in any possible way, justify it.

And before people jump to defend them, I run my own business too. I get no paid vacation, I get no paid sick time. If I don't work a day, I don't get paid that day. Now I'm not criticizing or complaining about paying for their vacation days, sick days, etc. That's fine. But I absolutely don't accept that it's legitimate for them to arbitrarily follow the local school district's closings regardless of the actual conditions.

I hear what you are saying and to a point agree. However, I have a couple of points...

One being that if this is the case at your children's child care and it doesn't work for you, don't stay. Find a program (center or home) that works best for YOUR family.

The second point being that although they work from home, they may have children of their own so when school is closed their own children are present and sometimes that means counting them in ratios and if that is the case, then they could only take a couple of other kids that day too so which ones do they allow to attend and which ones don't they allow?

I don't have take school age children and don't have any of my own. I am also a family child care provider but don't operate out of the home I live in. I RARELY close for snow/cold (and I'm in northern MN) but I know that during the times in which school are closed and the snow is bad, I have parents that are LATE. Late dropping off, late picking up...all due to hazardous road conditions. It wreaks havoc in my day and cause all sorts of little issues that added together make bigger ones so.....

Sometimes, it is just simpler for everyone to just close for the day.

I know that isn't applicable to ALL situations but it's what I know about why some providers close on no school days and some don't.

lovethis LOVE your user name by the way. One of my favorite books ever!

[Play Care]

I hear what you are saying and to a point agree. However, I have a couple of points...

One being that if this is the case at your children's child care and it doesn't work for you, don't stay. Find a program (center or home) that works best for YOUR family.

The second point being that although they work from home, they may have children of their own so when school is closed their own children are present and sometimes that means counting them in ratios and if that is the case, then they could only take a couple of other kids that day too so which ones do they allow to attend and which ones don't they allow?

I don't have take school age children and don't have any of my own. I am also a family child care provider but don't operate out of the home I live in. I RARELY close for snow/cold (and I'm in northern MN) but I know that during the times in which school are closed and the snow is bad, I have parents that are LATE. Late dropping off, late picking up...all due to hazardous road conditions. It wreaks havoc in my day and cause all sorts of little issues that added together make bigger ones so.....

Sometimes, it is just simpler for everyone to just close for the day.

I know that isn't applicable to ALL situations but it's what I know about why some providers close on no school days and some don't.

lovethis LOVE your user name by the way. One of my favorite books ever!

I want to speak to the "they don't have to go anywhere so they shouldn't close" train of thought. Years ago when I first started providing care, I thought the same way. Until the Valentine's day storm of 2007. I had one dck show up in what was already treacherous conditions. Mom says girls seems "quiet" that morning and heads out to make the trip to work. About a half hour later DCG spikes a fever and starts vomiting. She's terrified because she hasn't had a tummy bug before and refuses to do it in the toilet or "yuck" bucket I keep for this very purpose. Finally DCG stops throwing up and I'm able to call mom. Mom is stuck in the snow on her way back because her office was closed. No one else can come get DCG.

My Ah-ha moment - it's not enough to get them to dc, you need to be able to pick them up as well.

I still don't close during minor storms, but I make it clear that poor weather is not an excuse to be late and normal late fees apply.

[originalkat]

At least around here, it's typical, and has been since I was in school, for the districts to close when the first snowflake hits the ground early in the winter. It's almost as if there's this pent up desire for snow days, and the first time it snows, the schools close, regardless of the actual conditions. As I said, this week, our district closed two consecutive days for a 1/2 inch of snow across those two days.

As I said, if it was a real snow storm, fine, but closing on days like these is unjustifiable.



This, I don't understand. To me, that would be part of running your business. If you're getting paid for X number of kids regardless of how many actually show up, then there's no increased effort to pay ratio for having to shovel a driveway even if only a single kid comes in. On the entire day, it's actually far less effort for the pay if you only need to take care of one child - the shoveling is the same effort, but the actual childcare is less. If you're not getting paid for the kids that don't show up, fine. If you are, then I'm sorry, it's simply not a legitimate reason.

I guess it's just a different mindset. As I said, I run my own business too. If I don't work, I don't get paid, and I don't expect to. I couldn't imagine taking a customer's money and then simply denying service because on a particular day, I had to put forth the exact same effort as any other day, but only for a single child.

Yes, I see what you are saying. But the good thing about owning your own business is that you set the policies that work for you, and your clients choose you based on those policies. I created my policy to suit my needs/wants. If I find I am irritated by a policy I MADE for my business then I reevaluate it and make it mesh with my life. For example, I used to be open on Christmas Eve and then I would have most parents pick up early and there would always be ONE that would end up being there till closing. I was so irritated because I was trying to prepare for my own family's holiday, but I did it to myself. So, instead of complaining I just changed my policy to be closed on Christmas Eve. Weather closings are another example of this. So, I changed my policy to close when public schools closed because it meshed with my life. Parents know and understand my clearly defined policies before starting in my program and 90% of them stay until their child enters KG. It is important for me to balance the clients needs and my needs in order for everyone to be happy.

[originalkat]

I want to speak to the "they don't have to go anywhere so they should close" train of thought. Years ago when I first started providing care, I thought the same way. Until the Valentine's day storm of 2007. I had one dck show up in what was already treacherous conditions. Mom says girls seems "quiet" that morning and heads out to make the trip to work. About a half hour later DCG spikes a fever and starts vomiting. She's terrified because she hasn't had a tummy bug before and refuses to do it in the toilet or "yuck" bucket I keep for this very purpose. Finally DCG stops throwing up and I'm able to call mom. Mom is stuck in the snow on her way back because her office was closed. No one else can come get DCG.

My Ah-ha moment - it's not enough to get them to dc, you need to be able to pick them up as well.

I still don't close during minor storms, but I make it clear that poor weather is not an excuse to be late and normal late fees apply.

Yep! Exactly!

[Naptime yet?]

This is similar to my snow dilemma post. All but one parent was fine with my decision to close when schools are closed & this is the parent that can work from home. I refuse to risk any child's safety while in my care because of poor decision making, but I do want to be fair. So I came up with a compromise and. I'll see how it goes....these were very informative posts, I like all the different opinions, etc, they were incredibly helpful to me when deciding what to do myself.

[originalkat]

This is similar to my snow dilemma post. All but one parent was fine with my decision to close when schools are closed & this is the parent that can work from home. I refuse to risk any child's safety while in my care because of poor decision making, but I do want to be fair. So I came up with a compromise and. I'll see how it goes....these were very informative posts, I like all the different opinions, etc, they were incredibly helpful to me when deciding what to do myself.

Do you mind me asking what compromise you came up with?

[Naptime yet?]

It's somewhat pathetic, on my part. I told dm that if school was closed but my street had been plowed, then I would let her (and my other families) bring their kids. But this would be at my discretion. I also need to clarify to her that this has to happen before noon because I don't wants DCks arriving during what is typically lunch/Naptime. The problem lies when school is closed, weather is ok, but then takes a turn for the worse. I said I do not want your children stuck here (shocking!) because you can't get here to pick up. I understand people need to work & are limited with their days off, but this has come to down to the safety of the kids. Although I can, I hate to drive in snow, even pouring rain, and put up to 6 kids in the car (if there was an emergency situation)...really? Is it worth risking their safety so your work day isn't messed up (I'm being melodramatic)? So we'll see how it goes & if my policy becomes an issue, then I will be closed when school is closed, period. I think I work myself up for nothing.

[The Onceler]

To a few points that were made:

I totally understand the concern that conditions might be fine for dropping off a kid in the morning, but be a problem picking them up in the afternoon. And that's precisely why I'm fine with closures if the weather justifies it, even remotely. And sure, no one can predict the weather 100%, but this week was a situation where it was obvious to everyone that we wouldn't be getting any significant snow. So closing two consecutive days preceding a planned training day was a bit much. I just think this was a situation where discretion needed to be a two way street - that if they're already taking a day off, don't compound it by taking two more off when it wasn't necessary.

And yes, we have the option of finding another daycare, so while I'm complaining (and I know that's what I'm doing! ), the choice is on us. This is the last winter we'll face in daycare, as our child will be attending school next year, so it's not worth the effort and disruption at this point.

Naptime yet: I think it's great that you're working with your customers to find a solution that works for everyone. Even if you do close, at least the parents know that you did, or were willing to, make a serious effort. I think that's what irks me about our situation - the lack of effort.

Again, I think it comes down to mindset, and I happen to have almost the direct opposite. Some jobs I get are easy, others end up nightmares, but if I agree to a job, I see it through. I take the position that it all evens out in the end - you win some, you loose some. Customers don't pay me less if a job goes smooth and easy, so I won't charge more if one ends up more difficult than expected. And under no circumstances do I expect payment for work that wasn't performed.

So I do see all sides, and I certainly acknowledge the many reasons FOR closing a daycare. I guess if there's a single point to be made, it's that discretion should go both ways. If parents are expected to be understanding when a daycare closes, the closures have to be justified, and justification needs to be more than simply saying "hey, the local school district closed, so we did too".

[daycarediva]

I only close in a state of emergency, because roads are impassable. I work from home, no assistants regularly scheduled. If parents want to brave the roads, they can go ahead. BUT, they are told on interview, please leave work early to arrive here on time, etc. I give consideration, and expect it in return.

[Naptime yet?]

Basically, when I revised my policies regarding weather, I realize I didn't change them much, although it seems like I did. I just want everyone to be safe, bottom line, especially my family. I originally said I wouldn't close unless there was a state of emergency, but then I realized this was crazy, only because of where I happen to live and I hate to say it, but based on some of the convos I've had with my dcfs, I don't think they'd use their best judgment on whether or not to keep their kids home. What I keep emphasizing to them is, it's not them getting here, per se, but what happens while they're here. So that's why whether or not I'll open during school closures is at my discretion because, well, I can look at my street & see what's up . I don't want to be a meanie, but I don't want to feel like I'm being...what's the word...used? either. I'm sorry, I hope I haven't high jacked this, I didn't mean to....