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A while back I had posted about my violent 3 yr old dcg. Couldn't get her to stay in time out and she was being really physical. I can now get her to stay in a time out and her violence isn't as bad but, the timeouts seem to be constant. She sometimes spends the ENTIRE day there. I dont' mind that she does but I kind of want to try a different technique. We had done a chart where she got a sticker for every day she didn't have a time out. When she got 5 stickers she got a prize. Worked well for about 2 weeks. Hasn't had a sticker for several weeks now. So my question, does anyone use any other tactics for discipline? Wondering if some other form or even just a variation of the traditional time out would help her.
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If you share what kinds of things she's getting in time out for, we might be able to help more with suggestions for other methods to try.Hee hee! Look, I have a signature! -
Mostly not sharing, pushing or hitting, and for some reason she throws food when she doesn't like what is served... duh should have put that in there before. Sorry, been a long week.Comment
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Okay, I KNOW I'm gonna get it from some of you, but I just gotta say.......TIME OUT does not work!!!! I HATE when time-out is overused.
Sounds to me that some of her behaviors are developmentally appropriate. Children at this age are still very egocentric. They don't get sharing. So, I would just be gently reminding her that we need to play together so that everyone can enjoy the toys/materials. I also would not make her share something she has been playing with just because someone else wants it ( not saying that's what you do, cuz I don't know if you do) If she's TAKING toys because she doesn't want to share, simply tell her the other child was playing with it right now, you realize she really wants to use it and when the other child is done, she can have it. Then ask the other child to make sure he offers it to her when he's done playing with it. After awhile, she'll realize how it works and she'll start asking for toys instead of taking them, and she'll also learn to say "can I have it when you are done"
Hitting/pushing I would get down at eye level with her and he vicitim and show her how she made the vicitm feel "you see sammy's face? she's crying. you hurt her and you made her sad" then ask the vicitim and help the victim use the words to tell her how she made them feel. Then let her know that you will not allow her to hit, just as you do not allow the other children to hit her. Tell her ifshe continues to hit, she will have to play by herself because the other children do not like it. THEN, give her a space to play, a few items she can quietly play alone with and leave her to play by herself. Do it every time she has a spell of hitting/pushing (I'd say after three times in a day, she plays alone) In time she will realize she would much rather be playing with the other children than alone and the hitting will stop.
She throws food, she loses it. Give her one warning when she does it, "You may sit down and eat your lunch, or you can go look at books, but you may NOT throw your food" Second time she does it, tell her "I cannot allow you to throw food. It is wasteful and you are making a mess. Go sit down on the rug and look at books until you are ready to sit down and eat" If she doesn't go, pick her up, move her to a spot she can sit and look at books, walk away and remove her food." Wait five-ten minutes and then ask her if she is ready to sit politely and eat? If she says yes, tell her you will let her eat, but if she throws her food she will be done. Then follow through.Comment
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haha, what Crystal said, almost word for word! Hey, is she a young three or an older 3?
Time out gets ineffective very quickly if overused or used for the wrong things, and for some kids, it just does.not.work.at.all.
Crystal's description of the proper way to handle sharing is spot on what I was going to say. Same with the hitting and the food throwing.
Look at why she might be doing the hitting and pushing, as well--is she speech delayed at all? Is she lacking the social skills needed to effectively interact with other children? Does she do this when she's hungry, tired, bored?
You may also want to set up a quiet space that's away from everyone, maybe with some pillows and books and stuffed animals, where a child can go to cool down for awhile--if she's getting worked up about something and throwing a tantrum (or hitting, pushing, whatever), ask her if she wants to go to the quiet space (or whatever you want to call it) and cool down, then come back and talk about the problem when she feels more in control. This gives her the space she might need to calm down and be able to distance herself from the problem a bit so she can take more away from the talk you have about what caused it in the first place.
One other thing--when she is hitting/pushing or having sharing troubles, make sure to validate her feelings. "Wow, DCG, I can see you're really frustrated that DCB is using that truck! I know how hard it is when you want to play with something someone else is using! It's hard to wait your turn, isn't it? Use your words and tell DCB politely that you want to use the truck when he's done [model this if you need to, but try gently to get her to repeat it] and until he's done, let's play with this other truck!" Strong emotions, positive OR negative, are often really tough for children to deal with and giving them the names for the feelings and the validating them can often help diffuse the situation and calm them down.Hee hee! Look, I have a signature!Comment
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Pheeeew! I was scared to open this thread and read a response
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After I posted, I had another couple of thoughts.
It sounds like she might also need a bunch more positive reinforcement.
Try to work in ways to let her be "special"--help with snack, pick what kind of fruit to have with lunch, hold the door for everyone when it's time to go outside, get diapers or wipes for you when you're changing babies, etc. Play it up really big, get excited yourself: "Hey, DCG! Would you like to do a really important job for me? You would? Great! I need you to put three graham crackers on each plate, okay?" And then when she's done it (whatever it is), "Wow, that was really helpful! Thank you, DCG! You're a great helper!"
Catch her doing good--if she shares spontaneously, let her know you saw and that it was kind of her to do so. If you see her go to hit another child but stop herself, go over to her and, in a neutral tone, tell her that you saw how she wanted to hit Johnny but stopped, and how she should be proud that she remembered not to. Tell her that you understand how hard it is to control your body when you get mad about something, and it's very big/grown-up to be able to do the right thing. And then give her a hug.Hee hee! Look, I have a signature!Comment
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Won't say much here, but only 20 years ago, these types of problems did not exist as in the extent they do today, and if they did, they were taken care of by that thing called discipline.Comment
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Hahaha!! Whats that? j/k
I was wondering if maybe doing an observation would help identify any other problems? I went to a class on one once and it helps to see if it happens at a certain time of day..only with a certain playmate...only a certain toy..is she being antagonized at all...etcComment
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Sory to dissapoint you Crystal but I agree with you, so no back-lashing from me
. I used to use time-out religiously because well ... it helped me. But that's just it, it helped ME. It was a way for me to seperate the child from the group and so yes the problem was solved for the moment and the child stopped whatever it was that he/she was doing for the moment but really time-out doesn't address the real problem. Eventually the child will learn that "Okay, so if I do this, then I will have to go to time-out and I don't like that" but it's negative reinforcement not positive.
Recently I have changed my attitude toward discipline and now use time-out (yes I still use time out) as a last resort and only if the "crime" is serious enough. Most kids act out because they are scared, angry, hurt, sad, jelous etc. and putting them in time-out can actually reinforce the feeling of resentment and make things worse. If two kids are fighting over a toy I go to them, get down on their level and let each of them explain their version of what happened but don't pass judgement. This way both of their feelings are validated. "Joey you feel angry because Tommy took the toy you were playing with and Tommy you feel angry because Joey was playing with this toy that you were playing with earlier and you feel that you were playing with it first" or whatever the case is. Then I let them come up with a solution themselves. If they can't or won't, then I remove the toy or activity that is the problem and give them alternative choices.
This also works when they are doing things they aren't supposed to do and you find yourself repeating yourself over and over, like running around in the house. I stop them, get on their level, ask them what they are doing, listen to their words, ask them why it's unsafe and give them a new "job" to do. "You can play with the blocks, work on puzzles over there or you can play in the imagination station (our pretend play center)" then once they make a choice I take them to the new activity, sit-down with them and get them started until they are involved enough that I am sure that they just won't get up and start running around again.
I agree that maybe the child needs more positive reinforcement. Yes it's harder than let's say, sending them to a chair to sit out so that they are no longer in your hair but what does it really teach the child, especially a very young one? Oh there's so much more that I could say about time-outs but we'll just leave it at that
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What Crystal and I and several of the others are suggesting is actually discipline. In many ways, it's more "discipline" than what you probably did 20 years ago and do now. Most people's interpretation of "discipline" is actually "punishment". The word "discipline" actually means "to teach" and that's what we're doing--we're teaching these kids what behavior was unacceptable, WHY the behavior was unacceptable, and better ways to handle the problem in the future. It works, better than many other approaches. Sure, it takes more involvement on the part of the adults, and it takes repeating it over and over, but the child comes away with better problem solving skills and tools to handle things constructively. And honestly...since when does time out work the first time and you never have to touch that problem with that kid ever again?Hee hee! Look, I have a signature!Comment
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I agree with all of this, these are all good suggestions that I use on a daily basis.
Except aren't all of those alternative methods in essence also time-outs?!
Time-Outs are basically removing the child from the situation until they are ready to cooperate again. Time-out does not always have to be sitting on the time-out bench, or facing the wall or corner. It can be sitting on a rug by themselves reading a book until they are ready to stop pushing/hitting/throwing food/etc...Comment
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Ok, to answer few questions. She is an older 3. She'll be 4 in Feb. She is not speech delayed at all. The opposite in fact. When she talks she sounds more like a 13 year old than a 3 year old. I think at times that is a problem in itself. I expect too much from her at times because she seems much older than 3. As guilty as that makes me feel to admit, I know that sometimes it's true, not always though. I 'm planning to implement some of the ideas given here mon, however i was wondering how to work them with kids much younger than her who can't verbalize yet. We have 2 boys just turned 2. Neither are very good talkers so having them each "share their side of the story" might not work in that exact way mentioned. She seems to get a long better with older kids, it's the younger ones that she has trouble with. Please don't think I don't discipline her I do, I'm just looking for some new approaches. As for time out, I feel all kids are different and different things work for different kids. I've had it work like a charm before but clearly with her that isn't the case. And so it goes...Comment
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