Outlawing FlipFlop Shoes

[QualiTcare]

nannyde, yes, i have - along with every other setting you can imagine.

crystal, i understand what you're saying. i just think it's highly, highly unlikely that a child is going to get a broken toe from wearing flip flops. i've never seen or heard of it personally - i'm sure there are people who have, but there are also people who know of someone who got strangled by a hoodie string or choked on a button from a shirt. anything is possible, but not likely.

[QualiTcare]

a parent thinking it's okay (as MANY people do - including teachers) for kids to wear flip flops is not the WRONG thing just because YOU don't allow it.

you're stretching things just a bit. wearing flip flops which is a common thing is not the same as wearing a bikini in the snow.

[AmandasFCC]

a parent thinking it's okay (as MANY people do - including teachers) for kids to wear flip flops is not the WRONG thing just because YOU don't allow it.

you're stretching things just a bit. wearing flip flops which is a common thing is not the same as wearing a bikini in the snow.

We're not saying it's the WRONG thing, we're just saying we don't allow it under our care.

[QualiTcare]

We're not saying it's the WRONG thing, we're just saying we don't allow it under our care.

amanda, i was replying to nannyde's statement:

"The bottom line is that parents can't give permission for us to do the wrong thing."

[nannyde]

a parent thinking it's okay (as MANY people do - including teachers) for kids to wear flip flops is not the WRONG thing just because YOU don't allow it.

you're stretching things just a bit. wearing flip flops which is a common thing is not the same as wearing a bikini in the snow.

I'm not stretching it at all. It's one and the same.

If I believe something is dangerous for children I can't allow it. I can't allow parents to make decisions for their child in MY care that I believe are dangerous and put not only the child at risk but my business and my ability to raise MY child.

It doesn't matter if it is frost bite or hypothermia from wearing inapropriate outerwear during outdoor play in cold weather or wearing flip flops during outdoor play in warm weather... they are both dangerous and I can't allow it.

I can't allow parents to give me permission to do the WRONG thing. "I" decide what the right and wrong thing to do in my care. I don't allow parents to make decisions like this. I make them ALL.

The original poster stated:
Second, they are constantly getting scrapes and scratches on their feet, and one of my dcb's got a cut on his toe that kept opening up and eventually turned almost black. It has finally healed after about two months.

This is a perfect explanation of the risk of wearing flip flops. The risk for having cuts and scrapes and getting INFECTION in the scrapes because of the consistent exposure to dirt and sand after the cuts and scrapes. You also have a real risk of tripping because the foot is not supported with the small prong that connects the bottom of the shoe to the top. A full covering over the foot is what gives stability to the foot and allows the child the greatest chance of controlling their steps.

It's not WRONG for parents to use flip flops for kids in THEIR care. That's on them and THEY get to decide. When the child is in MY care I get to decide. It's another example in my care where I don't allow parents to make a wrong decision for the child in my care.

If a provider feels it increases the liklihood of injury and infection then she needs to make provisions for what she believes should happen with the child in her care. She may decide to allow the parents to decide. That's a decision and it's on her to take the consequences of that decision should a child be injured in her care.

This is an interesting study about the affects that children's clothing has on outdoor play in child care. As you will see both flip flops AND inappropriate winter weather gear are prominent in this study. They are one and the same... not stretching it a bit...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2780978/

Flip flops, dress clothes, and no coat: clothing barriers to children's physical activity in child-care centers identified from a qualitative study

Two major themes about clothing were: 1) children's clothing was a barrier to children's physical activity in child-care, and 2) clothing choices were a significant source of conflict between parents and child-care providers. Inappropriate clothing items included: no coat/hat/gloves in the wintertime, flip flops or sandals, dress/expensive clothes, jewelry, and clothes that were either too loose or too tight.

Flip flops & inappropriate footwear
The next most commonly mentioned problem clothing item was inappropriate footwear, including flip flops and sandals and shoes with slippery soles. Teachers explained that these shoes did not provide adequate support for running and climbing activities. Additionally, teachers found that flip flops could come off easily when running or walking briskly.¶8 "We like them to wear gym shoes because of the activity level, you know, playing and stuff. Even in the summer, we ask them, 'Don't wear sandals and flip flops and stuff cuz they come off their feet and they're just not very safe'."9¶"When they're running, the flip flop either comes off or that foot ends up going over the top and scraping the ground."¶10 "Field trips, you know ... They don't say nothing for a while and you look back and they're crying, (we ask) 'Why are you crying?' [The child says] 'My shoe (is) way back there'."Participants also explained that flip flops did not provide adequate protection against common playground surfaces such as mulch and gravel.¶11 "They wear them in the rocks and every 2 seconds you're taking the shoes off... It hurts. It really is detrimental to the children because they can't play like they should be playing."¶12 " [Parents will] bring them in flip-flops and we have a mulch playground too and they're--the children are constantly, 'I have mulch in my shoes.' So, they're always taking their shoes off and dumping the mulch out. Five minutes later it is back in their shoes."Despite the commonly-understood problems that flip flops presented to children's physical activity, only a few teachers reported center policies restricting the use of flip flops, and usually these policies only applied to days with field trips. Many wished their centers prohibited flip flops at all times.

[QualiTcare]

umm, since you think wearing flip flops and wearing a bikini in the snow are one in the same - i really see no reason to devote much time to a response.

[Former Teacher]

Not to hijack the thread or anything but I am reminded of a little boy who was 3 years old and a BEAST. I may have talked about him...the one with the pocket knife.

Anyway he always wore cowboy boots. We had one of the Rainbow Play systems with the ladders on the sides. We nicely told mom that maybe gym shoes would be better because "Larry" seems to be always sliding his feet on the ladder.

About a week later Larry was constantly kicking all the kids. He was pretty much in time out all week. Mom had stopped asking me how his day was because she already knew the answer haha. This day she did ask and I told her that he is constantly kicking his friends with the boots since they had the pointy tip. Mom got furious at me. I was like WTH? You asked...I told you. She said quite loudly...you will NOT tell me how to dress my child! I quite firmly told her..I am NOT telling you how to dress your child. I am telling you about his day. You asked, I answered. She stormed off.

Of course the witch sent him in the cowboy boots the next day. However we had a pair of pink sandals that fit him. I made him wear them until we settled in for a movie (mom was an early drop off, late pick up parent). Larry would get mad at me but it only took a few times and he did stop kicking because he wanted to wear his boots.

Again I don't mean to hijack the thread...I just wanted to share the story

[nannyde]

umm, since you think wearing flip flops and wearing a bikini in the snow are one in the same - i really see no reason to devote much time to a response.

No you said "you're stretching things just a bit. wearing flip flops which is a common thing is not the same as wearing a bikini in the snow."

I said " If we have children arrive in outdoor gear that's not weather appropriate we can't say that THIS is what the parents brought so we must use it. We can't allow the parents to simply write a note and say this jacket is okay in thirty degree weather.

I didn't make a compairson on wearing a bikini swimsuit in the snow... I said a JACKET in thirty degree weather.

BIG difference because mine could and DOES happen in real life care of children. Yours doesn't ever happen. You made up a silly compairson and then attributed to me. I never suggested that going nearly naked in the snow was the same as wearing flip flops outside. Of course having only a few ounces of clothing on a small part of your body in the snow could harm the child immediately and seriously. Flip flops are also dangerous because the child can injure toes and even trip and injure their head or bones. The chances though of a child being injured immediately and EVERY time they were put out into the snow with most of their skin uncovered is one hundred percent.

Flip flops have a lower percentage but... and here's the money shot... a REAL and concerning risk to the child and the providers business. That's why many providers deem them unsafe and do not allow children to do outdoor play in them. Just as you saw in the recent study I posted.. it is a universal concern of people who care for young children. It's enough of a concern to actually research and publish the data collected from it.

You won't see "bikini's in the snow" research cuz you just made that up.

My friend owns two large Centers with total capacity over 500 kids. She had to supply to her insurance company her clothing policies which had to include and address children's shoes. The insurance company KNOWS the risk of improper shoes for play. One of the outcomes: NO flip flops. The insurance company doesn't want to pay for the accidents on the playground and climbing equipment that they KNOW comes with flip flops.