Tough Group

[Guest]

The group of 2-3's that we have right now is a very tough group right now. Our oldest just turned 3, and our youngest turned 2 in August. We usually have 12 children- sometimes a few less- and 3 adults in the room. The biggest issues we are having are:

-Clean up- At this point we have to direct each individual child to a toy, have them pick it up (sometimes hand over hand) and put it away, and repeat.... for almost every one of them. If we don't do this, 2-3 children are cleaning while the others continue to play, or just walk around the room and watch them. We have maybe 1 or 2 children who developmentally need this kind of 1 on 1 attention.

-Doing exactly what we've just told another child not do to- For example, today at lunch, DCG was lifting her full plate of food into the air. As soon as I told her "DCG put your plate down, you are going to spill your food," she put her plate down and DCB had to lift his up. It is not always at lunch time, that was just the specific example from today. It can happen with anything another child is asked not to do.

-The usual management techniques do not work. We can redirect 1,000 times only for that child to turn around and go right back to doing what they were directed away from. Time outs do not work with about half of our group. They just laugh when they are put there, or when they are done with their time out, they just go back to doing what they were in trouble for.

We try and be very positive, "noticing" out loud who is cleaning; using consequences, like not being able to go outside (which is the next activity) until the room is clean, or not playing with a certain child when they are taking toys or hitting. But the behaviors do not seem to be getting any better.

Help!

[Laurel]

The group of 2-3's that we have right now is a very tough group right now. Our oldest just turned 3, and our youngest turned 2 in August. We usually have 12 children- sometimes a few less- and 3 adults in the room. The biggest issues we are having are:

-Clean up- At this point we have to direct each individual child to a toy, have them pick it up (sometimes hand over hand) and put it away, and repeat.... for almost every one of them. If we don't do this, 2-3 children are cleaning while the others continue to play, or just walk around the room and watch them. We have maybe 1 or 2 children who developmentally need this kind of 1 on 1 attention.

-Doing exactly what we've just told another child not do to- For example, today at lunch, DCG was lifting her full plate of food into the air. As soon as I told her "DCG put your plate down, you are going to spill your food," she put her plate down and DCB had to lift his up. It is not always at lunch time, that was just the specific example from today. It can happen with anything another child is asked not to do.

-The usual management techniques do not work. We can redirect 1,000 times only for that child to turn around and go right back to doing what they were directed away from. Time outs do not work with about half of our group. They just laugh when they are put there, or when they are done with their time out, they just go back to doing what they were in trouble for.

We try and be very positive, "noticing" out loud who is cleaning; using consequences, like not being able to go outside (which is the next activity) until the room is clean, or not playing with a certain child when they are taking toys or hitting. But the behaviors do not seem to be getting any better.

Help!

Those are tough ages. I have one almost 3 and one just turned 2 and a 9 month old and that is all and it is tough.

Since you have more than one adult (lucky you!) maybe you could, for example, tell them it is clean up time and then watch who is cleaning up. When those children have done what you consider their share then call those specific children to line up with Provider 1. Then Provider 1 takes them outside or takes them to a separate part of the room and does something really fun. The others can't go until they have done their fair share of the work.

Do adults sit at the table with the lunch children? Usually that is best for modeling behavior rather than having the children all sitting at the table and teachers walking around supervising or assisting as needed.

I have never had that many of the same age in the same room but my gut is to say that is too many children in the room even for 3 adults. I'm sure it is not feasible to have each teacher take 4 children in separate rooms but they may be able to be separate groups in the same room?? I don't know just some way to split up the sheer numbers. Just thinking out loud. May not help at all.

Laurel

[spinnymarie]

That is a tough age group - do you have any older kids at all, or are these the oldest?
I have 4 kids btwn 2 and a little over 3, but I also have my DD who is 4.5 and she leads the group.
I do the same with delaying the next activity until things get clean - when I was a Kindergarten teacher I learned that I have to TEACH clean up. Each day we would pick a spot and I would teach them what it looks like to clean up that area (in the art center, we find all the scraps and throw them away, make sure the crayons are all in the box, make sure the glue is closed, etc). We'd repeat this for every single area. I think kids, esp at that age, just need a clear specific example on HOW to do it... and then they need to practice and practice and practice... Esp if no one is making them clean up at home!
It's bound to be frustrating for a while, though.
As for kids laughing in time out and then returning to whatever they were in trouble for, I'd end that activity. If some is repeatedly standing on my furniture (this morning) that person is no longer allowed in that area of my house. If kids are continually arguing about the slide, the slide is now closed for business for the morning. And if they get in trouble somewhere else, now they have to sit next to me and play.
I'm sure you've tried most of these things - but at this age, persistence is key! THey will catch on, some day - and then think how nice your group will be!

[Sunshine74]

Do adults sit at the table with the lunch children? Usually that is best for modeling behavior rather than having the children all sitting at the table and teachers walking around supervising or assisting as needed.

Laurel

Lunch usually isn't a problem. That just happened to be the example that was the first I could think of when a child did what another was told not to do.

That is a tough age group - do you have any older kids at all, or are these the oldest? I work in a center, so that is the age group I work with.
I have 4 kids btwn 2 and a little over 3, but I also have my DD who is 4.5 and she leads the group.
I do the same with delaying the next activity until things get clean - when I was a Kindergarten teacher I learned that I have to TEACH clean up. Each day we would pick a spot and I would teach them what it looks like to clean up that area (in the art center, we find all the scraps and throw them away, make sure the crayons are all in the box, make sure the glue is closed, etc). We'd repeat this for every single area. I think kids, esp at that age, just need a clear specific example on HOW to do it... and then they need to practice and practice and practice... Esp if no one is making them clean up at home! It isn't so much that they don't know how to clean, or where things go. When a child first moves into our room, we make sure that child knows where things go and what is expected at clean up. The problem is the refusal to do it.
It's bound to be frustrating for a while, though.
As for kids laughing in time out and then returning to whatever they were in trouble for, I'd end that activity. If some is repeatedly standing on my furniture (this morning) that person is no longer allowed in that area of my house. If kids are continually arguing about the slide, the slide is now closed for business for the morning. And if they get in trouble somewhere else, now they have to sit next to me and play.
I'm sure you've tried most of these things - but at this age, persistence is key! THey will catch on, some day - and then think how nice your group will be! Thanks for your suggestions. We have tried most of those things, but I appreciate you helping out. Sometimes it seems that as soon as they catch on, it's time for them to move onto the next room.

I answered in bold above.

[heyhun77]

With that age they could be overwhelmed by the amount to clean up. If you notice they aren't cleaning up maybe put a bunch of the toys away for a while and bring them out a little at a time once they get the hang of cleaning up. If you have space to just put them up then you can pull them out to support how they are using the materials during free play times but then you can control how much mess there is at once.

Also, with that age I've had lots of success at clean up by having a bag/box of paper with pictures of the different toys that are out for play time. We huddle together when the clean up bell rings and everyone draws a picture out of the bag/box and that's what they clean up. It helps them focus on one type of toy which not only helps them focus on the clean up but also they are doing math by sorting the toys by type and working together so the mess gets cleaned up faster.

The only other advice I have for you is to curb some of the mess as they play. They are developmentally in a place of dumping and walking away. I try to watch for that and show them we clean up when we are done with something but then also offer opportunities to dump and pick up during other times of the day.