Conversation with My Licensing Agent

[AmyLeigh]

This may be more of a vent, but if you have any insight/advice, it would be appreciated.

So, I woke up this morning around 2:00am and couldn't go back to sleep until around 6:00am. I currently have only one dcc, and her mom has Tuesdays off. So I turned off my alarm and went to catch a couple hours of sleep.
Just before 8:00, my oldest dd came in to my room and woke me saying that there was some lady knocking on our door. She didn't answer it. Just as I was groggily trying to process this information, my phone rang. I let the answering machine get it, and sure enough, it was licensing. I called her back after my brain woke up. She sounded very irritated that I didn't answer the door. I explained that 1.) I am off on Tuesdays and 2.) I didn't sleep well last night, so I was asleep when she came. She asked if I am still operating. I explained that as of right now, I only have 1 child enrolled (which in CA, does not require a license). She told me I needed to "make up my mind" as to if I am going to keep my license and if so, I need to be available for random visits. Okay, I get it. Then she asked when I am available. I told her afternoons are better because we go out on frequent outings in the mornings and come back to the house in the afternoons for lunch and nap. Her response was, "Last time I was there in the afternoon, and you weren't there." I said, "Hmmm. That must have been on a Tuesday. That is when my children and I will go run errands or otherwise go somewhere." (Last Tuesday, we decided after lunch to go to the zoo.) Then she said that that is why she came by so early this morning, to change it up. I again apologized for not answering the door this morning.

I really didn't like the way the conversation went. Not so much what she said, but how she said it. I tried my best to be upbeat and cheerful, but I felt as if she thought I was hiding from her or lying to her about something. The conversation really upset me. We are at the house more than we are out. I understand that her office is an hour's drive away from my town, so it is probably frustrating for her to make the drive and not be able to accomplish everything she needs to. But is it my problem that when she comes by, it happens to be when we are out?

[crazydaycarelady]

Nope, not your problem. I really would try not to worry about this. I took Fridays off all summer and I never told them. We are not obligated to stay home on the off chance that the state might visit!

[TwinKristi]

I can get where she's coming from but I also understand your frusteration. I was told during training that if for some reason that happens, you should have a little something on the door to say you're temporarily closed on Tues. Take it down any other day or during an interview but that in case licensing shows up you're covered. Now that they've done that, twice, she sounds like she'll be back and perhaps on a mission to cite you.
We heard stories in training about people who were on vacation from work but home and licensing showed up, and even with no kids on the premises, cited the providers for any thing they could find. So yeah we were advised to have a note up if you're closed.

[Blackcat31]

Never let someone else's bad attitude or tone be your problem.

You aren't breaking any laws, you aren't doing anything illegal and whether you have 1 or 5 kids enrolled is up to you. I don't think she had a right to tell you to make your mind unless she was personally going to help you enroll children.

I would let her bad mood be hers and go about your business.

I am sorry she was rude but some people just are.

In the future, I would maybe place a sign on your door stating OPEN, CLOSED or AWAY FOR A MOMENT. WE WILL RETURN AT ______ a.m./p.m.

That might help.

[Heidi]

Part of the big fraud prevention thing in our state is that if you are out, you are supposed to call or email your licenser and tell them.

This is because providers were claiming children (subsidy) when the children weren't there. Now, they will cite you here for not being available during regulated hours unless you call.

[TwinKristi]

Never let someone else's bad attitude or tone be your problem.

You aren't breaking any laws, you aren't doing anything illegal and whether you have 1 or 5 kids enrolled is up to you. I don't think she had a right to tell you to make your mind unless she was personally going to help you enroll children.

I would let her bad mood be hers and go about your business.

I am sorry she was rude but some people just are.

In the future, I would maybe place a sign on your door stating OPEN, CLOSED or AWAY FOR A MOMENT. WE WILL RETURN AT ______ a.m./p.m.

That might help.

But that bolded part is untrue. You cannot operate a license-exempt daycare while Licensed. By being licensed you agree to random drop-in visits by a state worker. If you're license-exempt you don't have to agree to that and aren't regulated by the state. You have to give up your license and have your Trustline transferred to license-exempt status to not worry about visits so she is right by saying she needs to make up her mind. Even if you're only watching 1 child, as a licensed provider, you have to be following the rules for a licensed provider and be available for drop-in visits. Do you have to spend every waking moment at home waiting? No! But you need to leave a note or something if you're out.

[Margarete]

But that bolded part is untrue. You cannot operate a license-exempt daycare while Licensed. By being licensed you agree to random drop-in visits by a state worker. If you're license-exempt you don't have to agree to that and aren't regulated by the state. You have to give up your license and have your Trustline transferred to license-exempt status to not worry about visits so she is right by saying she needs to make up her mind. Even if you're only watching 1 child, as a licensed provider, you have to be following the rules for a licensed provider and be available for drop-in visits. Do you have to spend every waking moment at home waiting? No! But you need to leave a note or something if you're out.

I've never heard of having to leave a note. I know in California they have a temporarily closed form you can send in, so you don't have to re-license... My rep told me to not worry about sending it in unless you were going to be closed for more then a couple of months (it's my understanding you could still do licensed exempt care while 'closed'). She said it's not a problem if you are on a vacation, closed for a day, not there, or possibly not hearing the doorbell because you are in the backyard (in which case they would call). Then again I'm in Sac county and licensing is about to change from county to state oversight, so I'm not sure how differently they operate.

[Blackcat31]

But that bolded part is untrue. You cannot operate a license-exempt daycare while Licensed. By being licensed you agree to random drop-in visits by a state worker. If you're license-exempt you don't have to agree to that and aren't regulated by the state. You have to give up your license and have your Trustline transferred to license-exempt status to not worry about visits so she is right by saying she needs to make up her mind. Even if you're only watching 1 child, as a licensed provider, you have to be following the rules for a licensed provider and be available for drop-in visits. Do you have to spend every waking moment at home waiting? No! But you need to leave a note or something if you're out.

That is pretty much what I said so I am not seeing/understanding how what I said in my previous post about doing nothing illegal being untrue? :confused:

OP should have left a note and from the sounds of it IS available for unannounced visits but the timing of them have just been "off" for various reasons...all of which would be solved by leaving a note which is what I suggested as well.

I didn't read anywhere that the OP was operating illegally.

[Heidi]

Here, they won't license you with the intention of caring for 2 or 3 kids, but they won't force you to give up your license if you are low on numbers, either.

I've heard of providers being visited while they were on maternity leave and told to open up their files. Even one who WAS IN LABOR and the licenser came to the house demanding her MIL show her files. Nice...

They can be very mean sometimes, and our state takes what I consider an adversarial approach to daycare vs. a partnership approach.

[Leanna]

Part of the big fraud prevention thing in our state is that if you are out, you are supposed to call or email your licenser and tell them.

This is because providers were claiming children (subsidy) when the children weren't there. Now, they will cite you here for not being available during regulated hours unless you call.

Really? Wow. I get the reasoning behind it but I can't imagine having to inform licensing every time we go for a walk or to the playground!

[TwinKristi]

That is pretty much what I said so I am not seeing/understanding how what I said in my previous post about doing nothing illegal being untrue? :confused:

OP should have left a note and from the sounds of it IS available for unannounced visits but the timing of them have just been "off" for various reasons...all of which would be solved by leaving a note which is what I suggested as well.

I didn't read anywhere that the OP was operating illegally.

I didn't say she was illegally doing anything? I was just clarifying that they do have the right to say she needs to make up her mind on how she's operating her daycare. If she's going to be exempt and not want to get up for an 8am inspection than don't maintain licensure. Otherwise, you agree to open your doors for inspection. She was home and just didn't want to get up because she was tired and she didn't have kids there. My point is it doesn't work that way. You can't say I am now exempt because I have 1 kid and don't have to be available for inspections on my day off. It ****s but it's true. Bottom line is she has missed 2 unannounced visits and it doesn't matter why to licensing.

[Heidi]

Really? Wow. I get the reasoning behind it but I can't imagine having to inform licensing every time we go for a walk or to the playground!

Yeah, and they aren't that specific. The updates we've gotten say to notify your licenser (and your food program rep) if you're closed. I go for a walk every day, and I don't call for that. It's not actually a licensing reg. to call, but it's suggested to avoid a citation for inaccessibility.

Here is an example of why...

http://dcf.wisconsin.gov/program_integrity/suspended_providers/this_world_is_yours_and_mine.htm

I can certainly understand what they are trying to prevent. As always, everyone gets painted with the same brush.

Oh, and here's this providers licensing non-compliance "rap sheet". Wow, I wonder why they visit so often?

http://childcarefinder.wisconsin.gov/provider/providerdetails.aspx?ProviderNumber=3000572843&LocationNumber=1&q=FC-78-4C-8B%3aMHwwfHxUSElTIFdPUkxEfHx8fDB8VHJ1ZXxUcnVlfFRydWV8VHJ1ZXxUcnVlfFRydWV8VHJ1ZXxUcnVlfFRydWV8VHJ1ZXxUcnVlfFRydWV8VHJ1ZXxGYWxzZXxGYWxzZXxGYWxzZXwtMXwtMXxGYWxzZXwwfGF8MHww

Public documents, btw.

[LK5kids]

Really? Wow. I get the reasoning behind it but I can't imagine having to inform licensing every time we go for a walk or to the playground!

I am in WI too. I was told to leave a note on the door stating we are at the park or on a walk and to include my phone #. If I am going to be closed I am suppose to notify licensing and the food program. I am not licensed at this time to transport kids, so we don't go on long field trips.

I do plan to go on walking field trips once I have a six kid stroller.

[crazydaycarelady]

I'm sorry but I am not leaving a note. That's like saying to anyone who comes to the door "I'm not here, take what you want!" or "I'll be back later with a bunch of kids in tow." It is a HOME daycare and the state needs to remember that as well. I did agree to let them in if they drop by but I didn't agree to be home everyday all day on the off chance they do!


Part of the reason I do home daycare is so I can be my own boss, I just refuse to report my every movement to the state.

[Meeko]

Yeah, and they aren't that specific. The updates we've gotten say to notify your licenser (and your food program rep) if you're closed. I go for a walk every day, and I don't call for that. It's not actually a licensing reg. to call, but it's suggested to avoid a citation for inaccessibility.

Here is an example of why...

http://dcf.wisconsin.gov/program_integrity/suspended_providers/this_world_is_yours_and_mine.htm

I can certainly understand what they are trying to prevent. As always, everyone gets painted with the same brush.

In Utah, they won't inspect unless you have kids. They understand we need our days off and privacy.

Many years ago, I did daycare on a military base in Oklahoma. They tried to tell us we had to call and let licensing know if we left the house, so they wouldn't make a trip and find us gone.

We balked at that as a group. We were being told "It's your business. You can it anyhow you wish as long as you meet regs".

On the other hand we were being told we couldn't even set foot outside our homes without notifying licensing. Which meant if you couldn't reach your licensor....you couldn't leave your own home!!!

So we decided to prove a point. Every provider on the base called the licensor (only one on the base) for EVERYTHING. Going outside to play? Called her. Going to the park? Called her. Errand? Called her. Everyone left early? Called her.

It took about three days before they decided we didn't need to call and if we missed an inspection, we missed it. Better luck next time. ::::