Send a Letter or Not?

[Brooksie]

Sorry for the long post::
I have been having a lot of trouble with DD lately where she just will not listen She has basically no self control (2.5 yrs) and while I know that is normal she is extremely intelligent for her age so it makes it very challenging. The behaviors she has been exerting are pushing, pulling on clothes, pulling on hair, poking, hitting kids with objects, throwing things, knocking things over, making messes on purpose... the list goes on and on. I am very clear on how I expect them to behave towards each other and implement SEFEL and social stories constantly, but she has none of it. She is that kid who will do something unacceptable and when you give her a warning she does something else that isn't acceptable immediately afterwards, but not the same thing she was just told not to do so that's different and she thinks she can't get in trouble.

I used to not do time outs because I don't think, with the ages that I have, that it is developmentally appropriate or beneficial (all under 3) but I have always done "if you hit you sit". Well her behavior has gotten so extreme (its all. day. long. CONSTANTLY.) that I'm starting to use it for unwanted/unacceptable behaviors in general. This is not something that I have advertised as my policy on behaviors but she knows what she is doing is wrong and she thinks she can get away with it. Any thing else I've done has not worked. Positive reinforcement is a joke to her. She still throws out the bad. I really need her to understand consequences and if she is not nice to her friend or breaks the rules she won't be allowed to participate. One of the other little girls I have that is close to her age wants almost nothing to do with her because dd is just so rough with her and mean.

Obviously I'm very frustrated and I know sometimes I need to check myself. I have been watching SuperNanny and have started using the chair and a 2 minute timer. I use a very stern voice and tell her why she's sitting there and then we talk about it (still sternly) when her time is up. She has to give suggestions as to what she should do instead and we then work on problem solving and she comes up with an idea to make it up to her friends (generall goes over, gives a big hug and kiss and will say "me sorry me pushed you A*** me no do it again. You ok?" But then again... 20 minutes later she's doing something ELSE she isn't supposed to.

Honestly if I could term my on kid I would!!!

My concern is that the other kids are now seeing a more stern/strict side of me that they weren't seeing before. Since I have been all about positive reinforcement and redirection and all that, I never really had to get loud and show them that supernanny side of me.

So my question is, do you think I need to send a letter home to the parents and explain my current policy and how I am dealing with dd's current behavior. Or should I just discuss it with them at pick up? Or do you think I just need to do what I need to do and not be concerned with it? I'm honestly worried that one of the dcks is going to go home and portray the situation in the terms of a 2-3 year old. I don't want the parents to think I'm yelling at their kids when I'm really just being STERN with mine. KWIM? I don't have this problem with any of my other dcks. But again, dd is SO intelligent, well past her age but still has the self control, or lack there of, of a 2 year old. None of the other kids are at her level or turmoil.

Any feedback would be appreciated. Any other suggestions with how to manage her and also how I should approach the parents about this change.. Thanks

[Play Care]

Sorry for the long post::
I have been having a lot of trouble with DD lately where she just will not listen She has basically no self control (2.5 yrs) and while I know that is normal she is extremely intelligent for her age so it makes it very challenging. The behaviors she has been exerting are pushing, pulling on clothes, pulling on hair, poking, hitting kids with objects, throwing things, knocking things over, making messes on purpose... the list goes on and on. I am very clear on how I expect them to behave towards each other and implement SEFEL and social stories constantly, but she has none of it. She is that kid who will do something unacceptable and when you give her a warning she does something else that isn't acceptable immediately afterwards, but not the same thing she was just told not to do so that's different and she thinks she can't get in trouble.

I used to not do time outs because I don't think, with the ages that I have, that it is developmentally appropriate or beneficial (all under 3) but I have always done "if you hit you sit". Well her behavior has gotten so extreme (its all. day. long. CONSTANTLY.) that I'm starting to use it for unwanted/unacceptable behaviors in general. This is not something that I have advertised as my policy on behaviors but she knows what she is doing is wrong and she thinks she can get away with it. Any thing else I've done has not worked. Positive reinforcement is a joke to her. She still throws out the bad. I really need her to understand consequences and if she is not nice to her friend or breaks the rules she won't be allowed to participate. One of the other little girls I have that is close to her age wants almost nothing to do with her because dd is just so rough with her and mean.

Obviously I'm very frustrated and I know sometimes I need to check myself. I have been watching SuperNanny and have started using the chair and a 2 minute timer. I use a very stern voice and tell her why she's sitting there and then we talk about it (still sternly) when her time is up. She has to give suggestions as to what she should do instead and we then work on problem solving and she comes up with an idea to make it up to her friends (generall goes over, gives a big hug and kiss and will say "me sorry me pushed you A*** me no do it again. You ok?" But then again... 20 minutes later she's doing something ELSE she isn't supposed to.

Honestly if I could term my on kid I would!!!

My concern is that the other kids are now seeing a more stern/strict side of me that they weren't seeing before. Since I have been all about positive reinforcement and redirection and all that, I never really had to get loud and show them that supernanny side of me.

So my question is, do you think I need to send a letter home to the parents and explain my current policy and how I am dealing with dd's current behavior. Or should I just discuss it with them at pick up? Or do you think I just need to do what I need to do and not be concerned with it? I'm honestly worried that one of the dcks is going to go home and portray the situation in the terms of a 2-3 year old. I don't want the parents to think I'm yelling at their kids when I'm really just being STERN with mine. KWIM? I don't have this problem with any of my other dcks. But again, dd is SO intelligent, well past her age but still has the self control, or lack there of, of a 2 year old. None of the other kids are at her level or turmoil.

Any feedback would be appreciated. Any other suggestions with how to manage her and also how I should approach the parents about this change.. Thanks

Maybe I'm odd, but I would not notify the parents of anything. I assume you are still using the same discipline tactics for their children that you have from the beginning and the"stern" talk is for your child only. And color me old fashioned, I see nothing wrong with being firm or stern with kids or having them hear it. That said, firm or stern is not screaming/ yelling so I would make sure I wasn't crossing that line.
My kids, especially my oldest, were the most difficult for me. There were times as they got a bit older I would send them to their rooms for a while to cool down. I never saw a reason to bring this up to dcparents as it was not an issue that affected their child or their child's care. I also feel strongly that my own children deserve the same privacy protection that dck's legally have. Just my opinion.

[Brooksie]

Maybe I'm odd, but I would not notify the parents of anything. I assume you are still using the same discipline tactics for their children that you have from the beginning and the"stern" talk is for your child only. And color me old fashioned, I see nothing wrong with being firm or stern with kids or having them hear it. That said, firm or stern is not screaming/ yelling so I would make sure I wasn't crossing that line.
My kids, especially my oldest, were the most difficult for me. There were times as they got a bit older I would send them to their rooms for a while to cool down. I never saw a reason to bring this up to dcparents as it was not an issue that affected their child or their child's care. I also feel strongly that my own children deserve the same privacy protection that dck's legally have. Just my opinion.

This was another one of my concerns. If there was a behavior issues (say a biter) I would not disclose the names of who the one creating the problem is. I just don't know what the line is. I can't figure out if that is something they need to know or not since what I'm doing with her isn't my behavior policy... And I mean, I guess if other kids were doing the same behaviors I wouldn't want to single her out as the only one who has that consequence. I know she would pick up on that and probably act out more. Idk. This child (my child) has really thrown all my policies and views on behavior in the trash. My mom is an Early Childhood Behavioral Specialist and calls dd the "challenge of her career". She's just way to smart for anyone's good.....

[Familycare71]

Personally I wouldn't open up my parenting method to dcf and their opinions. For example when my kids were a certain age they would have to do a chore or go to their room, etc... As a consequence. I never did that with my dck so it was t dcp business kwim? Even if a dcp had come to me and said: dck told me you sent your dd to her room. I would only discuss it as far as the fact that I didn't do that with dck and it needn't worry them.
Keep doing what your doing with dd! She will get there. And a bit of firmness never hurt anyone! :hug:

[Brooksie]

Personally I wouldn't open up my parenting method to dcf and their opinions. For example when my kids were a certain age they would have to do a chore or go to their room, etc... As a consequence. I never did that with my dck so it was t dcp business kwim? Even if a dcp had come to me and said: dck told me you sent your dd to her room. I would only discuss it as far as the fact that I didn't do that with dck and it needn't worry them.
Keep doing what your doing with dd! She will get there. And a bit of firmness never hurt anyone! :hug:

thanks. When she gets up from nap we are going to discuss and make a list of what being a good friend looks like and what behaviors will give her a time out from the group.

[daycarediva]

Personally I wouldn't open up my parenting method to dcf and their opinions. For example when my kids were a certain age they would have to do a chore or go to their room, etc... As a consequence. I never did that with my dck so it was t dcp business kwim? Even if a dcp had come to me and said: dck told me you sent your dd to her room. I would only discuss it as far as the fact that I didn't do that with dck and it needn't worry them.
Keep doing what your doing with dd! She will get there. And a bit of firmness never hurt anyone! :hug:

yup. My kids are disciplined differently. I can't tell a dck "You just lost your tv time this evening." but I JUST said that to my own ds. :: If a dcp asked, I would explain that situation, but I wouldn't go into detail about her/behavior or anything else. It's none of their business, my kids deserve the same privacy dcks do. I have a 2.5yo dcb who sounds like your dd, he was booted from 4 daycares (3 centers and 1 home) before coming here. His parents are going through a NASTY separation, and of course, his behaviors are escalating. I am SUPER glad I am off tomorrow.


The challenging, highly intelligent, strong willed children are VERY rewarding. My oldest was this child, and according to my mother, just like me, and the reason I was an only child. :: For my dd, it was sometime around 3.5 that it clicked. Can't say it's been a breeze since then, but she is a WONDERFUL teenager. Just keep at it! I really feel that these children are placed with people who CAN handle their behavior for a reason. She also gave me INFINITE patience, which is a virtue!

[spinnymarie]

I agree that it's not something that you need to share. If someone brings it up - which could happen, though you'd hope everyone would understand that a story from a 2-yr-old is usually not highly accurate - I'd just explain that you need to be more stern with DD at certain times. I'd also add that sometimes your tactics need to be different with your own children

[Brooksie]

Awesome. Thanks guys, for the support. This is a very frustrating and challenging time for us.

[cheerfuldom]

Here is my thought....have you considered having your child evaluated for special needs? Intelligence does not exclude her from having some delays in other areas. I realize you and your mom have a lot of experience but you might gain a lot of insight from having another opinion. The fact that she has so little impulse control, and a lot of energy and aggressive behavior but does seem to want to play with the other kids and be around them.....I am guessing SPD, sensory seeking Sensory Processing Disorder. She sounds exactly like my middle daughter. I tried EVERYTHING to get through to her and she is the main reason why I have never expanded the daycare and become licensed. but now with her specialized preschool (3 hours a day) and a lot of reading and support on what she needs, she is a different child! Like seriously, night and day. I am so glad that I listened to my instinct and had her evaluated. Every other kid with me responded well to my guidance policy. I dont use timeouts or any punishments really and my positive approach worked really well on every kid but her. She definitely needed something more. Sometimes it is kids just being kids but the fact that you have been working on this so hard and not seen any improvement tells me it might be more than her just being a kid.

[MsLaura529]

The challenging, highly intelligent, strong willed children are VERY rewarding. My oldest was this child, and according to my mother, just like me, and the reason I was an only child. :: For my dd, it was sometime around 3.5 that it clicked. Can't say it's been a breeze since then, but she is a WONDERFUL teenager. Just keep at it! I really feel that these children are placed with people who CAN handle their behavior for a reason. She also gave me INFINITE patience, which is a virtue!

I told DH last night that if my DS had been our first, we would have never had another one, haha.

My DS (2.5) is getting very "testy" ... he has figured out how to push everyone's buttons in the right way to get them upset. And most of the time he thinks it's funny. Until he gets caught, then he stomps and screams and hits (me).

I've done time-outs, I've done sending him out of the daycare area to cool down in another room, I've taken his beloved cars out of his room, etc ... I have now resorted to reminding him how a "superhero" would treat their friends, and if he can't act how a superhero would then he has to take his cape off (he LOVES running around in the Batman cape we have)... sometimes it works. SOmetimes, he pulls the cape off himself

[melilley]

I think what you are doing is great! Like others have said, I would not tell dcp's anything. It's really none of their business what you do with your own child.
I have a dcb who is 23 mo. and is the same way. He does the exact same things that your dd does! I think part of it is the age. They like to test everyone and everything! Hang in there hun! :hug:

[melilley]

Here is my thought....have you considered having your child evaluated for special needs? Intelligence does not exclude her from having some delays in other areas. I realize you and your mom have a lot of experience but you might gain a lot of insight from having another opinion. The fact that she has so little impulse control, and a lot of energy and aggressive behavior but does seem to want to play with the other kids and be around them.....I am guessing SPD, sensory seeking Sensory Processing Disorder. She sounds exactly like my middle daughter. I tried EVERYTHING to get through to her and she is the main reason why I have never expanded the daycare and become licensed. but now with her specialized preschool (3 hours a day) and a lot of reading and support on what she needs, she is a different child! Like seriously, night and day. I am so glad that I listened to my instinct and had her evaluated. Every other kid with me responded well to my guidance policy. I dont use timeouts or any punishments really and my positive approach worked really well on every kid but her. She definitely needed something more. Sometimes it is kids just being kids but the fact that you have been working on this so hard and not seen any improvement tells me it might be more than her just being a kid.

Oh My Word. What you explained sounds exactly like the dcb that I have here! Plus my dcb is 23 mo and can't say one word. He is very aggressive, throws fits, hits, pulls hair, never runs out of energy (I call him my little tornado) (and he used to bite, but no longer does), etc..plus he still puts everything in his mouth. He does want to play with the other children, but is mean to them, even when he doesn't seem frustrated. He knows what you are saying and does listen sometimes. Is this what SPD sounds like?
The mom has told me that she was going to have him evaluated by Early On, but never did. We have also talked about his lack of verbal skills and I think deep down she knows that he is not where he should be, but she said she's going to wait until his 2 year appt. to see what the doc says. Do doctors (peds) see this and know what to do ( I know that question sounds stupid, but who knows) or do parents have to be forth coming and say something?

Sorry for all the questions, but when I saw your response I immediately thought of my dcb and it raised my curiosity!

[Laurel]

My grandson is that age and he is in my daycare. He is prone to tantrums and can just be a pain in the you know what? He just goes ballistic over something or nothing (that we know of), etc. Same with pushing, etc.

My daughter read about a method called 1,2,3 Magic and she has been doing it for a few days and I just tried it today. It is working GREAT.

It is a book and the reviews on amazon are great also.

When he breaks a rule we just as briefly as possible tell him what we didn't like. I mean VERY briefly such as "Go get your shoes. We are leaving." Then wait 5 seconds and say absolutely nothing. If he does it again say "That's 2" and be silent. You have to remain calm and aloof like it doesn't bother you at all. If he continues say "That's 3" and we take him to timeout which for us is putting him in his bed....a crib so he can't get out. When he is finished crying, we walk in, get him out and say nothing. We just go on about our day and are friendly.

She has only done it for a few days and me the first time this morning and as soon as I said "Get in your chair" and he didn't I said "Okay, that's 1" He got right in it. Amazing after all the tantrums he has had over the chair issue.

If we get him out of time out (which can be anywhere but we just chose the crib) and he does it again we just rinse and repeat. Once it took him twice but that is the longest and he is a HARD case otherwise.

http://www.amazon.com/1-2-3-Magic-Effective-Discipline-Children/dp/0963386190

Laurel

[Brooksie]

Here is my thought....have you considered having your child evaluated for special needs? Intelligence does not exclude her from having some delays in other areas. I realize you and your mom have a lot of experience but you might gain a lot of insight from having another opinion. The fact that she has so little impulse control, and a lot of energy and aggressive behavior but does seem to want to play with the other kids and be around them.....I am guessing SPD, sensory seeking Sensory Processing Disorder. She sounds exactly like my middle daughter. I tried EVERYTHING to get through to her and she is the main reason why I have never expanded the daycare and become licensed. but now with her specialized preschool (3 hours a day) and a lot of reading and support on what she needs, she is a different child! Like seriously, night and day. I am so glad that I listened to my instinct and had her evaluated. Every other kid with me responded well to my guidance policy. I dont use timeouts or any punishments really and my positive approach worked really well on every kid but her. She definitely needed something more. Sometimes it is kids just being kids but the fact that you have been working on this so hard and not seen any improvement tells me it might be more than her just being a kid.

I have suspicions that she is Early Onset Bipolar... I was. She's just not at the age where we can figure that out. I'm going to have to wait a couple more years before I can try to point in that direction. I am charting her behaviors right now which is not easy. But my mom says she's a scary blend of me and my brother (both bipolar-add and I have anxiety) but he was Mr impulse control and I was Miss Sensory issue/moody. I know I have my work cut out for me and a lot of really tough years ahead. I will definitely be getting her evaluated as she gets older. I did have a local Early Childhood Psychological Foundation program come and evaluate her a while ago for similar behaviors but they weren't very helpful and said I wasn't able to work off of my suspicions until she were older and had more of a pattern going on... so here I am.