New Rescue and Complaint From Parent

[Brooksie]

This is a common issue for providers who have or get a dog.

Some families will be okay with it and some won't. Nothing wrong with either choice.

IMHO, it really doesn't matter what you did or didn't witness at pick up. What matters is if the parents feel comfortable leaving their child in your care while your dog is present. If they aren't ok with it, that is their choice.

Just like it was YOUR choice to get a dog....kwim?

I have an X-large breed dog and have heard a myriad of comments and stereotypes relating to my dog's breed. I have cats that are an integral part of my family and understand a family's need to have/want pets. I get it.

However, as a parent I personally would never enroll my child in a daycare that had a dog. I just wouldn't.

OP~ I think you need to set some boundaries for the safety of ALL the children (and parents) enrolled about whether or not your dog will or won't be intermingled with your daycare kids or if it will be kenneled or crated during business hours.

I also think you should NEVER use the argument that this dog has never been aggressive or any argument similar as she IS still a dog and dogs should NEVER be blindly trusted to not be aggressive or display similar behaviors....especially around children....who can be equally as unpredictable. kwim?

Good luck and I hope you don't lose a family because of this but either way, I would prepare for it.

I totally know what you're saying. I'm not saying that she isn't capable of aggression. They ARE dogs. But you could trip over my dog, startle him from a dead sleep, land on his head and he will slowly just move to the side or get up and walk away. My daughters done it MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY times. I am prepared if this family pulls. I have 2 families in line for an open infant position and honestly, if they pull both their kids (one is in a wheelchair) I an then put my gated up to the kitchen again and put the dogs in there if need be. They're only down to accommodate this family that has now made a complaint.. Honestly, it would be no sweat off my back. It just still bothers me for some reason because he made this accusation to his wife but when he was here he was playing fetch with her and was commenting on "what a good looking dog she was".

[daycare]

Wow, I'm really sorry you've had those experiences. That's really unnatural. I also don't mean to be rude but with that track record (I totally understand your fear of dogs after those experiences) but its got to be a response to your body language and yes your fear. I've never known any one to be bit by so many dogs. That being said I tell everyone on the phone interview that I have dogs and if someone does not like dogs, is afraid of dogs, or allergic I automatically tell them this is not the FCC for them. My dog(s) are VERY well socialized and are given a lot of varying experiences to get them used to people, things and animals. The only time you have a vicious dog is because that's how they were trained or neglected. People that don't actively work with their dogs are asking for issues. I am not that person.

Yes, they smell my fear and they bite me. AND every dog that has bitten me was by a "family" dog that has NEVER bitten anyone else that the owners socialize with their own family and children of all ages.

I am so over the top afraid of dogs that if I know you have a dog at your house I won't even go to your house. Some of my friends respect my fear and will put their dog away while I am there, but if they are not willing to understand my fear, then I just won't go over.

[Play Care]

Wow, I'm really sorry you've had those experiences. That's really unnatural. I also don't mean to be rude but with that track record (I totally understand your fear of dogs after those experiences) but its got to be a response to your body language and yes your fear. I've never known any one to be bit by so many dogs. That being said I tell everyone on the phone interview that I have dogs and if someone does not like dogs, is afraid of dogs, or allergic I automatically tell them this is not the FCC for them. My dog(s) are VERY well socialized and are given a lot of varying experiences to get them used to people, things and animals. The only time you have a vicious dog is because that's how they were trained or neglected. People that don't actively work with their dogs are asking for issues. I am not that person.

Unnatural?! Really?! And then blame the victim?! No wonder your parent seems as though they don't believe you when you say it didn't happen (or you didn't "see" it happen)

If you are so clear about dogs in your dc and this person signed on anyway, chances are good that they are a dog person too. So to essentially dismiss what they are saying doesn't bode well for anyone. Everyday you hear about a beloved family pet that, out of nowhere, bites. If you want dogs to have free range, fine. But then you need to be supervising (eyes on) at all times. No "I just turned my back for a minute!" or "I didn't see it."

[Willow]

I'm with BC. Do what you're going to do. People will stay, go or never sign up with you in the first place and that will be their choice.


That said I foster and rescue. None of my families have access to my dogs or my fosters. Not because they're bad, but because I love them and other people are unpredictable. It's my job to protect my dogs from situations like you describe, as well as from false accusations that can leave your dogs lives hanging in the balance. I personally would never feel comfortable leaving my dogs open to that level of liability -or- my children with a provider who disagrees there is definite danger in it.

The rescues I am affiliated with (currently four, but have worked with dozens in the past) would NEVER foster or adopt one of their dogs into the situation you descibe. They know it would be far faaaar too dangerous for the dog and it would completely defeat the purpose of rescuing them if just one child pulled an ear too hard or one parent got a bug up their butt and tried to claim something happened even if it didn't.



I would absolutely be prepared for a visit from licensing and now maybe even animal control over this OP.

[Brooksie]

Unnatural?! Really?! And then blame the victim?! No wonder your parent seems as though they don't believe you when you say it didn't happen (or you didn't "see" it happen)

If you are so clear about dogs in your dc and this person signed on anyway, chances are good that they are a dog person too. So to essentially dismiss what they are saying doesn't bode well for anyone. Everyday you hear about a beloved family pet that, out of nowhere, bites. If you want dogs to have free range, fine. But then you need to be supervising (eyes on) at all times. No "I just turned my back for a minute!" or "I didn't see it."

Yes, unnatural. I've worked with dogs as a trainer and a groomer and I've never seen a magnet for dog bites. The only thing that make sense is your body language that may provoke an already unsettled dog. I also think dogs can be the victims of poor socialization or bad training. The dog was clearly at fault because he/she bit, but its not natural for someone to be bitten that many times. Its also not fair. I sympathize with daycare. That really ****s that she's had that experience and I feel terribly for her. I'm not saying she's WRONG or being bitten. That doesn't make sense. I'm just agreeing with what SHE said that its her fear that puts the dogs on edge.

[sharlan]

I'm sorry, but if your dog growled at me (or I witnessed your dog growling at anybody else), my child would NOT be returning to your daycare. I would not provide notice either. I would be happy to let you take me to small claims court where I'm sure I would win.

Your boyfriend's "don't sweat it" attitude may cause you problems in regards to this dog.

[daycare]

Yes, unnatural. I've worked with dogs as a trainer and a groomer and I've never seen a magnet for dog bites. The only thing that make sense is your body language that may provoke an already unsettled dog. I also think dogs can be the victims of poor socialization or bad training. The dog was clearly at fault because he/she bit, but its not natural for someone to be bitten that many times. Its also not fair. I sympathize with daycare. That really ****s that she's had that experience and I feel terribly for her. I'm not saying she's WRONG or being bitten. That doesn't make sense. I'm just agreeing with what SHE said that its her fear that puts the dogs on edge.

I get what you are saying, and I do agree. I know they bite me because they sense my intense fear of them and it unsettles them. That I don't doubt at all.

ALL that I am saying is that since YOU can't control how your children feel about the dogs and you can't control when your dog will bite, if they ever do, it's better to be safe than sorry.

If you are adamant about socializing the dog with the kids, then maybe you should just consider limiting the contact and amount of time that you have the dogs around the kids.

As I have been taught with everything in my life, NEVER SAY NEVER.....

[Willow]

Yes, unnatural. I've worked with dogs as a trainer and a groomer and I've never seen a magnet for dog bites. The only thing that make sense is your body language that may provoke an already unsettled dog. I also think dogs can be the victims of poor socialization or bad training. The dog was clearly at fault because he/she bit, but its not natural for someone to be bitten that many times. Its also not fair. I sympathize with daycare. That really ****s that she's had that experience and I feel terribly for her. I'm not saying she's WRONG or being bitten. That doesn't make sense. I'm just agreeing with what SHE said that its her fear that puts the dogs on edge.

I find it odd that as a former trainer you would fault a dog for a bite......

All of the professionals I learned from and network with will say 99% of bites are the fault of the human involved (which is exactly why I am ADAMENT about protecting them from my potentially ignorant day are families). The 1% only being the result of a dog who has been punished throwing appeasing and warning behaviors so they no longer give them and/or the result of a medical issue where the aggression becomes completely unpredictable (thyroid, neurological etc.).

In either event the vast majority can absolutely be avoided if the people around any given dog understand dog behavior and respect it. Unfortunately, that is just not something small children, especially children who are not a part of a dogs immediate family unit, are capable of.

[Willow]

Not trying to pick on you, I could talk dog "shop" all day long

[Unregistered]

You can never predict a DOG will do at any given time! To put other peoples children safety at risk for the 1 time is not an option.
Growing up my father had a boss with the most gentlest of saint bernards around. We could ride him, climb on him, hug him, accidentaly fall on him, take the food from his mouth. We did it for years, we grew up with this dog.
One day, 1 hug is all it took and half my brothers face was GONE from ear to chin! My father and the owner were standing right there. Nothing different from any other day. Dog went back to being same sweet dog as soon as it happened as if nothing happened. SO NEVER SAY NEVER OR NOT MY DOGS!

[Brooksie]

I find it odd that as a former trainer you would fault a dog for a bite......

All of the professionals I learned from and network with will say 99% of bites are the fault of the human involved (which is exactly why I am ADAMENT about protecting them from my potentially ignorant day are families). The 1% only being the result of a dog who has been punished throwing appeasing and warning behaviors so they no longer give them and/or the result of a medical issue where the aggression becomes completely unpredictable (thyroid, neurological etc.).

In either event the vast majority can absolutely be avoided if the people around any given dog understand dog behavior and respect it. Unfortunately, that is just not something small children, especially children who are not a part of a dogs immediate family unit, are capable of.

I could talk dogs all day with you too. What I'm trying to say is, Yes, the dog BIT. So technically it is the dogs action (is what I should have said, not fault) but again it was the body language and uneasiness/approach that provoked the dog to bite. I'm not blaming daycare or say she deserved it by an means. She obviously doesn't intend for this to happen and she can't help her fear. But unfortunately that seems to be the cause, considering how many times it has happened to her. That's the unnatural (unusual) part to it. I'm saddened for her that its happened so many times. That's incredibly unfortunate. I do think that dogs are generally the victims. They are what you make of them. The problem is not the dog its the owner. Sorry if we misunderstood each other for a second there.

[Familycare71]

I have rescued dogs and have 5 of my own. My dogs are never allowed out free with my daycare kids. There are too many variables - dogs are animals. Kids are kids. I'm just not willing to put my dogs in a situation where it could cost them their life because I turned around for a moment.
And as far as a dog guaranteed not to bite: that is never the case. I had a springer who was amazing with my children and she suddenly got springer fever. She bit two of my own kids unprovoked in two separate instances and she didnt even know what happened! After consults with two vets we had to put her down- it was hard enough going through that but add a lawsuit to it and it would have been unbearable!
I love dogs (including the bully breed) but am not wiling to risk injury to a child or death to a dog because life carries so many variables!

[Blackcat31]

I could talk dogs all day with you too. What I'm trying to say is, Yes, the dog BIT. So technically it is the dogs action (is what I should have said, not fault) but again it was the body language and uneasiness/approach that provoked the dog to bite. I'm not blaming daycare or say she deserved it by an means. She obviously doesn't intend for this to happen and she can't help her fear. But unfortunately that seems to be the cause, considering how many times it has happened to her. That's the unnatural (unusual) part to it. I'm saddened for her that its happened so many times. That's incredibly unfortunate. I do think that dogs are generally the victims. They are what you make of them. The problem is not the dog its the owner. Sorry if we misunderstood each other for a second there.

That is not true. An owner can be the BEST trainer in the world.

The owner can have hundreds of hours of education and/or experience and the dog could still bite or turn aggressive in the right circumstances.

I do NOT believe that has anything to do with the owner or how the dog was trained.

Dogs aren't always what you "make of them" as they too have natural instincts and tendancies......no matter how hard we try and take the "animal" out of them, they are still in fact, animals (= unpredictable)

[Familycare71]

I find it odd that as a former trainer you would fault a dog for a bite......

All of the professionals I learned from and network with will say 99% of bites are the fault of the human involved (which is exactly why I am ADAMENT about protecting them from my potentially ignorant day are families). The 1% only being the result of a dog who has been punished throwing appeasing and warning behaviors so they no longer give them and/or the result of a medical issue where the aggression becomes completely unpredictable (thyroid, neurological etc.).

In either event the vast majority can absolutely be avoided if the people around any given dog understand dog behavior and respect it. Unfortunately, that is just not something small children, especially children who are not a part of a dogs immediate family unit, are capable of.

Yes!!! This is EXACTLY why my dogs aren't around daycare families!

[Brooksie]

Ok so despite all the varied opinions and how I chose to treat my animals I DO agree this is a liability issue. My only problem now that I am asking for advice on is how to deal with it. This is my solution/problem:
I would like to be able to put the gates back up that section off the kitchen. Here I will turn into a dog sanctuary where they will still feel involve with the kids (open floor plan) yet safe from accusations and also tiny hands that aren't always so gentle. I do still want to allow the dogs in with the kids occasionally throughout the day and maybe during nap time where I can closely monitor them.

My problem with this is that the family (dcd) who has claimed that she growled (whether she did or not isn't the point, its still a dangerous accusation) has a child enrolled here in a wheel chair. When they signed up I had to take the gates down so I could get her through the doorways. I told them at interview that that would mean the dog would be out with the kids but he was very friendly, I just wouldn't be able to gate him off. This was an accommodation I made for THEM (and its been a terrible inconvenience bth trying to keep the kids from playing in the kitchen, although I manage it well). I'm really leaning to putting the gates back up, but I would have to do an immediate term for this child, since access to the back yard is through the kitchen and I wouldn't be able to take her out with us and cannot leave her inside while we go out.

My contract says that I need to give 2 weeks notice for term, but would like to put the gates up immediately to avoid any further accusations... So any ideas on THIS issue/idea?