Age Appropriate? WWYD

[JoseyJo]

We have a just turned 3 yo dcb who has been with us for about 5 months. He is the youngest, we have one 3.5 dcg, one 4.5 dcb, and 5 just turned/or almost 5 yo dcks (4 boys, 1 girl).

His mom believes he is developmentally delayed, but I am not sure. He talks very well, knows all of his letters, numbers, colors, shapes very well. He is learning to write his name, and follows one and 2 step directions.

However- he is a hitter. And the way/reasons he hits reminds me of a 1.5/2 yo. He hits, scratches, and kicks when he is frustrated, someone gets too close to his toy, when he is tired, when someone is in his way, and also when he thinks it is funny (I know this because he gets a smirk on his face, then kicks at, hits, pushes, etc the person, then laughs). Healso doesn't hit hard- hard enough to be very annoying but hasn't ever hurt anyone (again, in a way that is more slapping at like a 1/5 or 2 yo) But everyone is SICK of getting hit by him - today I swear he put his hands inappropriately on someone at least 50 times.

He has never hit, kicked, or pushed me or my assistant, but I have seen him push and hit at his mom.


No one ever takes his toys, or hits or pushes him. We haven't ever really had a problem w/ hitting here.

For the frustration we have been teaching him other methods to cope with frustration (talking to the person, getting a teacher, moving to another area, etc). This seems to be working somewhat and has gotten somewhat better in those situations.

We have told him that no one will take his toys, and they haven't, and hitting in that situation seems to be getting a little better, but we are still having problems w/ it when he is tired.

Overall the hitting has escalated since the beginning so I worry it is something we are inadvertently encouraging here. Even thought he isnt hitting as much when frustrated, I cannot get him to stop pushing people who are between him and what he wants, and I cannot get him to stop hitting for the fun of it. I am not sure what to do! I have tried talking, redirection, sit down not as fun activities, TO.

Today it was pretty crazy- hitting, kicking at people, pushing, and just touching all day long! Every time he puts his hands someone inappropriately today I said "Oh no, we don't hit, if you hit you sit" I have said it so much today the other kids are going around chanting "if you hit you sit!". We have a new 4 yo dcg today and the first thing he did was hit her, for no reason!

Any ideas? I was thinking that tomorrow if he hits one time he will have to be my shadow for the rest of the day.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

I would get on his level, look him in the eye and directly state, "No hitting!" and place him in time out. If he isn't hitting you or your assistant but IS hitting Mom he is obviously capable of differentiating who he can get away with hitting.

[Willow]

Have you been able to identify his triggers and give him an alternative behavior?

So like which observing him you see him getting amped up when another kiddo starts playing closer to him than he's comfortable with....you walk up and say to him "I see you are looking a little (angry, frustrated, sad, overwhelmed)"......"what do you think you could do that would make you feel a bit better right now?"

If a kiddo has never been given alternatives they're not going to know to do anything other than lash out.

Suggest he scooch over, ask the other child politely to back up please and if all else fails go get Ms. Daycare lady to ask for help.


It's going to take time but by repeatedly offering alternatives that will lay the foundation to him learning there are other ways he can handle situations that get his goat.

[JoseyJo]

I would get on his level, look him in the eye and directly state, "No hitting!" and place him in time out. If he isn't hitting you or your assistant but IS hitting Mom he is obviously capable of differentiating who he can get away with hitting.

I have been doing that today- I may just need to keep it up longer.

[JoseyJo]

Have you been able to identify his triggers and give him an alternative behavior?

So like which observing him you see him getting amped up when another kiddo starts playing closer to him than he's comfortable with....you walk up and say to him "I see you are looking a little (angry, frustrated, sad, overwhelmed)"......"what do you think you could do that would make you feel a bit better right now?"

If a kiddo has never been given alternatives they're not going to know to do anything other than lash out.

Suggest he scooch over, ask the other child politely to back up please and if all else fails go get Ms. Daycare lady to ask for help.


It's going to take time but by repeatedly offering alternatives that will lay the foundation to him learning there are other ways he can handle situations that get his goat.

Offering alternatives has helped a lot w/ the frustration and toy sharing lashing out- what is not getting better (and seems to be getting worse) is the pushing because they are in between him and what he wants and the hitting and inappropriate touching for the fun of it. I am not sure how to stop those two!

[Willow]

Offering alternatives has helped a lot w/ the frustration and toy sharing lashing out- what is not getting better (and seems to be getting worse) is the pushing because they are in between him and what he wants and the hitting and inappropriate touching for the fun of it. I am not sure how to stop those two!

For the pushing can you role play? Tell him you want to help him practice that scenario. Set up a whole row of kids in front of the toys he wants, make it a game that he has to ask, with a please, for them to move. Then practice him moving around them. Retrain his brain that when he encounters that situation there is a different avenue he can take to solve his problem.

As for him keeping his hands to himself does he do this to tick others off? Or because he doesn't know how to ASK others to play with him? Is his family pretty touchy feely? What is your perspective, because all would need a different approach to snub it most likely.

[JoseyJo]

For the pushing can you role play? Tell him you want to help him practice that scenario. Set up a whole row of kids in front of the toys he wants, make it a game that he has to ask, with a please, for them to move. Then practice him moving around them. Retrain his brain that when he encounters that situation there is a different avenue he can take to solve his problem.

As for him keeping his hands to himself does he do this to tick others off? Or because he doesn't know how to ASK others to play with him? Is his family pretty touchy feely? What is your perspective, because all would need a different approach to snub it most likely.

I don't think he would understand role play he is pretty concrete and doesn't do much imagination play. When he pushes someone I do make him go back and re-go where he was trying to go again appropriately. He just hasn't seemed to make the connection yet. It doesn't seem like he is trying to upset them, just that they are in his way and pushing past them is the fastest way to get where he wants to get. I am mainly worried about it for August when our 3 of our 5 yo go off to kindy and we have a 1.5 yo, 2 yo and 2.5 yo starting. They will be littler than him (he is pretty solid anyway) and if he pushes him the way he does the big kids it will knock them down.

As for keeping his hands to himself I don't think he is ticked off (he usually laughs after and/or has a smirk), he knows how to ask others to play with him and does ask when he wants to (he is very verbal and has a huge vocabulary!) I watched today at p/u and he pushed at his mom w/ his feet, threw himself on the floor, and threw his shoes. She just said "DCB, your so silly, do you want to see mommy be silly? Then she copied him and said "See isnt that silly, that's what you look like" I think she is trying to get it to stop but doesnt know how.

I do think he is touching inappropriately to get out of things he doesn't want to do. I have never seen him do it when he is free-playing (he usually chooses to free plays alone and does not want anyone near him, or to play with him) but even when he does choose to free play with another child I haven't ever seen him touch inappropriately.

He usually does it :

when he is at the table eating - when he is probably full but doesn't want to get down yet. (kicking under the table, putting his hands in his neighbors face/plate/pushing over their cup) - for this I say "you can be excused now" and escort him to the bathroom to wash up.

when he needs to be doing a non-free play activity (like looking at books after a meal so I can clean the tables, during art or learning activities, during the non-singing parts of circle time, etc) - for this I set him back from the activity near me where I can watch him and keep him a body length away from any child. He doesn't seem to mind sitting next to me doing nothing.

in line waiting for the bathroom to wash up before a meal- for this I have him sit out of the line until the line is gone then to go last. He doesn't seem to mind this either.

when he is supposed to be picking up toys if I take my attention off him to 2 seconds to address another child- for this I shadow him to the best of my ability as I do not want him to get out of picking up because he hit/pushed.

I'm not sure where I am going wrong, but somewhere I think because instead of staying the same or getting better it is getting more frequent. (actually the pushing is probably the same, it is the hitting when bored/for attention/ to get out of stuff (whatever the reason is, but when he is not mad about anything) that is getting MUCH more frequent.

[Familycare71]

Give me a two yr old over a three year old anyday! Lol
I could be completely off base but here are my thoughts. The boy hits or pushes and he seems to be getting a Big reaction. When he does it to mom she puts on a show! When he does it to his friends he gets a whole bunch of one on one time. He misbehaves at the table- he can get down, he doesn't have to stand in lines... He gets to stand with you. IMO I would try NO interaction for this behavior. Obviously it needs to be dealt with but with no eye contact and no verbal. He hits at the table he is simply pushed back away from everyone and can sit there- he hits or pushes in line be sits in a chair while you continue interacting with the others. He pushes through people - he gets placed in a sitting spot. He will get the idea-
Hth

[daycare]

I have a saying here, if you hit, you must sit......it's simple rhyme that even a child can remember. They have to sit away from the group and I give them 3-4 legos to play with in a hula-hoop, then I walk away. I will not say anything to them during this time.

I try my hardest to be proactive instead of reactive by taking a day and observing the child in our environment and learning what is triggering the child to react that way.......

I have a lot of kids that are pretty horrible to their parents, but never behave that way here.

[JoseyJo]

Give me a two yr old over a three year old anyday! Lol
I could be completely off base but here are my thoughts. The boy hits or pushes and he seems to be getting a Big reaction. When he does it to mom she puts on a show! When he does it to his friends he gets a whole bunch of one on one time. He misbehaves at the table- he can get down, he doesn't have to stand in lines... He gets to stand with you. IMO I would try NO interaction for this behavior. Obviously it needs to be dealt with but with no eye contact and no verbal. He hits at the table he is simply pushed back away from everyone and can sit there- he hits or pushes in line be sits in a chair while you continue interacting with the others. He pushes through people - he gets placed in a sitting spot. He will get the idea-
Hth

I tried a big reaction today - NO NO We do NOT hit! Then directing to TO. That didn't seem to work for sure!

Tomorrow I will try no reaction, but still consequence. We will see if it gets better or worse

[Cradle2crayons]

Give me a two yr old over a three year old anyday! Lol
I could be completely off base but here are my thoughts. The boy hits or pushes and he seems to be getting a Big reaction. When he does it to mom she puts on a show! When he does it to his friends he gets a whole bunch of one on one time. He misbehaves at the table- he can get down, he doesn't have to stand in lines... He gets to stand with you. IMO I would try NO interaction for this behavior. Obviously it needs to be dealt with but with no eye contact and no verbal. He hits at the table he is simply pushed back away from everyone and can sit there- he hits or pushes in line be sits in a chair while you continue interacting with the others. He pushes through people - he gets placed in a sitting spot. He will get the idea-
Hth

I agree with this. He is getting a HUGE payoff when he acts out. Take away the pay off and he will quit.

[countrymom]

I don't do hitting. Since time outs are not working then the child will be my shadow all day. And I mean, you sit with me, you go into the kitchen with me. They are with me so much that they will hate it. But I remind them why they are with me. I don't even give a second chance. One chance and action is taken, the more chances you give the more they will do.

[Crystal]

Offering alternatives has helped a lot w/ the frustration and toy sharing lashing out- what is not getting better (and seems to be getting worse) is the pushing because they are in between him and what he wants and the hitting and inappropriate touching for the fun of it. I am not sure how to stop those two!

When he pushes his way through to get what he wants STOP him and tell him since he chose to push to get what he wanted, he doesn't get what he wants. When he hits for the "fun of it" talk to him about how he would feel if his friends were doing that to him. Typically the child would say he wouldn't like it. Then ask him what he would or wouldn't want to do about if a friend hit him for no reason. typically you'll get " I wouldn't want to play with him" or "I'd want to hit him back" ask him if he would like for his friends to make one of those choices because he hit them.....how would he feel if they didn't want to play with him anymore, or hit him back. Make him use critical thinking skills to figure this out.

Then.....ask those questions to the "victim" in front of him when it happens. "Sally, I saw Johnny hit you. How did that make you feel?" "Sally, what do you think Johnny can do to make this better?" or "Sally, what do you want to do about this?" Typically she'll say she doesn't want to play with him. You can then tell Johnny that "I heard Sally say she doesn't want to play with you because you hit her. You need to find something else to do for now. You can ask Sally later if she wants to play with you, when you decide not to hit her anymore."

Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

[Willow]

When he pushes his way through to get what he wants STOP him and tell him since he chose to push to get what he wanted, he doesn't get what he wants. When he hits for the "fun of it" talk to him about how he would feel if his friends were doing that to him. Typically the child would say he wouldn't like it. Then ask him what he would or wouldn't want to do about if a friend hit him for no reason. typically you'll get " I wouldn't want to play with him" or "I'd want to hit him back" ask him if he would like for his friends to make one of those choices because he hit them.....how would he feel if they didn't want to play with him anymore, or hit him back. Make him use critical thinking skills to figure this out.

Then.....ask those questions to the "victim" in front of him when it happens. "Sally, I saw Johnny hit you. How did that make you feel?" "Sally, what do you think Johnny can do to make this better?" or "Sally, what do you want to do about this?" Typically she'll say she doesn't want to play with him. You can then tell Johnny that "I heard Sally say she doesn't want to play with you because you hit her. You need to find something else to do for now. You can ask Sally later if she wants to play with you, when you decide not to hit her anymore."

Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

[JoseyJo]

When he pushes his way through to get what he wants STOP him and tell him since he chose to push to get what he wanted, he doesn't get what he wants. When he hits for the "fun of it" talk to him about how he would feel if his friends were doing that to him. Typically the child would say he wouldn't like it. Then ask him what he would or wouldn't want to do about if a friend hit him for no reason. typically you'll get " I wouldn't want to play with him" or "I'd want to hit him back" ask him if he would like for his friends to make one of those choices because he hit them.....how would he feel if they didn't want to play with him anymore, or hit him back. Make him use critical thinking skills to figure this out.

Then.....ask those questions to the "victim" in front of him when it happens. "Sally, I saw Johnny hit you. How did that make you feel?" "Sally, what do you think Johnny can do to make this better?" or "Sally, what do you want to do about this?" Typically she'll say she doesn't want to play with him. You can then tell Johnny that "I heard Sally say she doesn't want to play with you because you hit her. You need to find something else to do for now. You can ask Sally later if she wants to play with you, when you decide not to hit her anymore."

Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

I totally agree that this would work for most 3 yos (including our 3.5 yo, even 6 months ago it would have worked) but there is no way he could think through to an answer on a question like that. He is very verbal, but he doesn't really have any critical thinking skills - he is instant freak out mode the instant something is not working such as a trucks whose wheels stop, or a box that wont open. He talks all day long, but it is just surface stuff- this is my car, look at this picture, i want to color, etc. If I ask him questions about what he wants or what he did he will answer, and he is a great copier, but if I ask him about feelings, or thoughts, or anything abstract he is totally lost.

I guess my main problem is that I would correct an 1.5/2 yo a lot differently than a 3 yo for these issues. With an 18 mo I would shadow, shadow, shadow and make sure there weren't opportunities to hit until the behavior went away. With any other 3 yo it would be an instant TO- we do not tolerate hitting here! The TOs don't seem to be phasing him, he just patiently sits through it and then goes back to the behavior. Shadowing him hasn't worked either - he seems to like all the one on one attention and is happy to sit to the side (and reach out for any child who passes too close to hit/kick at them!) He doesn't seem to understand talking it through, or other people's feelings.

I don't think he is doing it spitefully or because it's fun to be mean (like an older child sometimes will). I don't think he understands that other people have feelings at all. When a child yells at him for pushing past them he acts like they are in the wrong for yelling for no reason (I truly dont think he understands that they had a reason, that he pushed them and that they are reacting to that). When he messes with them- hits at, kicks at, ect- he doesn't like it when they get mad. He thinks it is funny, and entertaining to swipe at people as they pass or hit at a neighbor when he is bored of doing whatever we are doing.

For example today after snack the kids were reading books while we cleaned up. They read until everyone is up from the table, then I go in and read a story to them. He sat for maybe 2 minutes nicely,(I was checking on them about every 1 minute since he had been hitting so much today, I normally would have just made him start out sitting in the kitchen where i could see him but I thought maybe he was enjoying that too much), then apparently between check at 2 minutes and check at 3 minutes he started airplaning his book, then he took his book at hit his favorite friend over the head with it. His friend (5.5 yo boy) came and told and when I went in dcb was sitting smiling. I asked if he hit his friend, he said yes (still a smile). I said "oh no! your friend is very sad, he doesn't like to be hit" (still smiling) "you need to come and sit in the kitchen and wait until I am done clearing the table". He did a little pretend fit, then he went and sat nicely and happily until I was done clearing.