Need Advice - Behavior Issue

[Unregistered]

I hate to post 'unregistered' but the website isn't accepting my sign in...

I have a fairly new family (been here 2 months) of two kids, ages 2 and 4.5. Since day one they spend a good part of the day climbing all over each other, then hitting, slapping and kicking each other. At first I thought it was because they were insecure here, but it has now gotten way out of hand.

All day long, they kick and poke at each other. I first thought it was just the 2 yr old, because the older child gets super upset and whiny and tells him to stop. However, I started noticing it was happening when I step out of sight for a minute and started watching and it is BOTH children doing it. The older child is poking and prodding at the younger one and then he jumps on her. It is super disruptive to have them rolling all over the floor hurting each other. I have tried the following things:
-talking to the parents (Mom got upset with me, Dad thought I was making a big deal out of nothing.)
-Time outs (they just go right back to it when time out is over).
-having them do separate activities (works for awhile, but as soon as they are in the same space it is back to mauling each other)
-talking to them (keep you hands to yourself, blah, blah, blah)
-Taking away privileges (don't like doing this)
-Having them each sit on a 'cloth square' that we have here. (works somewhat).

Does anyone have any ideas? I really lost it today, I reminded them about a dozen times to stop and then ended up raising my voice. And now the other kids are starting to do it to each other. The kids get lots of attention here and have lots of activities to keep busy, but these two choose to climb all over each other, which ends up in someone getting hurt.

HELP!

[Heidi]

ugh...sibs

How many kiddos in your group, and what is the age range?

Do you do a circle time, have "class rules", etc.?

Do you have interest centers?

I'm not judging, just asking to get a better feel for your program.

[ShellAve]

I know you said you tried talking to them by telling them to "keep their hands to themselves" but have you tried asking why they are doing it in the first place? Or tried stressing that since someone always gets hurt they need to be nicer to one another. It seems fairly obvious, but I feel like telling children to stop something without telling them why is often like talking to a wall.

Otherwise I would just separate them until they can learn to stop. It's not fun taking away privileges either, but how else do you discourage bad behavior?

I'm surprised that their mother got mad at you when you told her that they were hurting one another. What did you actually say to her?

[Unregistered]

I told the Mom that they were really focused on each other and wondered what worked at home to curb that behavior. She said 'time outs in their room' but then started asking me whether they had enough to do etc.

During circle time, the older child tries to participate and the younger one is determined to touch her etc the whole time. I try to have them sit away from each other during those times.

We have a quite a few different stations/play areas in the main playroom and they do start out separate but then migrate back to each other.

I have explained that it isn't nice to be touching each other all the time and that I don't want anyone getting hurt. I also explained that bodies are private and you shouldn't touch each other without asking. Also, I ask them if they want to give each other a quick hug when transitioning from one activity to another and then told them 'now you are done touching each other'.

As soon as I turn my back to take someone to the bathroom etc, they are back at it.

[Heidi]

ok...got it.

I think it's time for a "school rules" session.

Here is a website with tons of good Social/Emotional Development resources. I asked about your set-up because it's really geared more to your type of program (a schoolish setting), than mine (I have a small infant/toddler family type group).

There are tons of things there.

[cheerfuldom]

Honestly, I dont think anything is magically going to change this. I have four kids of my own and have taken care of sibling sets in several capacities (teacher, coaching, etc) and A LOT of kids are like this. They are addicted to pestering each other, although this pair seems to have escalated to physically harming one another. Its obviously a problem at home (mom acknowledged it) and parents solutions is not appropriate for group care (isolating in separate rooms). I also find it frustrating that while mom knows this is an issue even at home, she implies that your program is the cause of the issues (I am sure that is not true!).

If you cannot handle sibling sets, or this particular set, I do think that you should let them go. Or offer to keep one. UNLESS the older is attending preschool or kinder in the fall, in which case I would just hang in there for the summer in order to keep the younger past fall.

There is no magic solution to this. A lot of it is maturity and some of it is environment (which you cannot control outside of daycare). You already know that these parents really dont have solutions to this so you are on your own here. Either you can handle it or you can't. No one would fault you at all for terming if that is what it comes to. Keeping aggressive kids is risky because you cannot watch everyone all the time.....someone IS going to get hurt.

[AmyKidsCo]

I have sibling that are like that sometimes too - I can totally tell that it goes on at home. When it gets out of hand here I make them stay in separate rooms. My play room and dining room are adjoining and both have toys so neither is being separated from the group, they're just being separated from each other.

[Cat Herder]

I have several sibling groups that can get a bit too "attached" to one another, to the point of excluding the group, from time to time.

When it gets out of hand I divide the group into centers making sure to assign siblings to different ones.

It encourages the GROUP to form instead of little cliques... Once the group is established, getting a classroom routine down is MUCH easier. IMHO, of course...

[BABYLUVER21]

My kids for the SECOND time ever in DC were fighting yesterday. It was like ALL of them had some problem with the other. Poor DCP was upset when I got there, and I knew, just knew, my kids were really acting like jerks. So I told her "Let me have it" and she poured out her little heart. Of course, my kids were disciplined for such atrocious behavior!

That said, THEY ARE WORSE at home. It's like EVERY day I'm off is "Beat up each other and annoy mom" day, no matter what I do. They are very much good for EVERYONE EXCEPT ME!

I have had to take things away, time out, spankings, separating them, every single thing I try doesn't matter. They couldn't care less (They range from 6-10 yo and there are 4 of them). They just pick and pick and pick at each other. Consequences don't matter to them, unless we're out. I've even taken them to behavioral therapists and what do I get "Oh, that's normal" "Try this and this" (BTDT). So then I try the teachers and it's the same thing. Then they tell me "Be glad it's at home where they are comfortable and not in public. Obviously there's nothing wrong with them!" Which I AM grateful that my kids are great in public, but WHY can't they behave at home??

So this summer, every time they act stupid, I started separating them and making them "bored" and they HATE it. It appears it's working a little better than all the other methods I've tried. They complain, but at least know that if they can't get along they WILL have a TERRIBLE summer because MOM is NOT having it ANYMORE!

I don't know if it's "bad parenting" or not, can't tell. I'll let you know when they become adults if I've screwed them up too badly.

I was just in SHOCK that thy have ever tried it at daycare. When I watched kids, I rarely had dck's act up more than the trial period (when they tested me). In fact, they were pretty much awesome for me and if they weren't awesome, they didn't last too long anyway so it wasn't a biggie. I did notice that some of them did act up in places other than my daycare (such as shopping trips or outings where mom and dad were present)