Negative 4 Year Old

[Brooksie]

I just got a new family who started 2 weeks ago. Two of the kids are SA (7 and 10) and are (for now) just before and after care. The youngest is 4 and I have him all day. I am kind of at a loss with this child. He is VERY negative. Always calling names, mistreats/tries to damage our property (especially when he's already gotten in trouble), says he doesn't want to be any ones friend, pushes, punches and gets in kids faces (borderline head butting them) and any time be breaks a rule and gets in trouble he screams "Why do you hate me?! Every one HATES me". I always assure him that we don't hate him but he can't behave that way, or this is a rule here. He's constantly telling me that I'm not the boss of him and he won't listen to me. My daughter (2) doesn't always follow directions (which is acceptable at this age) but he is so quick to tell her she can't do something or he wont be her friend or doesn't want her near him (which is not ok). In those situations I always say something like, "I'm sorry you feel that way, but here at Sprouts we all play together, if you need time to yourself you need to go in the other room, but at the activity tables we need to be able to play nicely." This morning his brother (7) took one of his blocks and this kid straight up pulled pack an side swipe/punched him. I obviously took him in the other room to sit out and talk to him and when I asked him what he thought he should do to make his brother feel better and even gave him a situation where the shoe was on the other foot and he just laughed and said he didn't care. About 10 minutes later he finally got up and hugged him. About 30 minutes later "She(my daughter) got to close" to him and he shoved her down and then yelled at her. When I went to talk to him about it he plugged his ears and said he wasn't going to listen to me or my rules. Any suggestions for dealing with this kid? I'm looking at a long term contract with these people and am supposed to have all 3 of them for summer care. At this point the brothers can't even interact at all. The 7 year old is very emotional and thinks he is the one that gets in trouble for everything, when they're equally abusive and negative towards each other. This is just NOT how we do things at Sprouts. So far this has been a very positive play environment and right now I feel like I'm a ref at a boxing match. I need help!

[daycare]

I just got a new family who started 2 weeks ago. Two of the kids are SA (7 and 10) and are (for now) just before and after care. The youngest is 4 and I have him all day. I am kind of at a loss with this child. He is VERY negative. Always calling names, mistreats/tries to damage our property (especially when he's already gotten in trouble), says he doesn't want to be any ones friend, pushes, punches and gets in kids faces (borderline head butting them) and any time be breaks a rule and gets in trouble he screams "Why do you hate me?! Every one HATES me". I always assure him that we don't hate him but he can't behave that way, or this is a rule here. He's constantly telling me that I'm not the boss of him and he won't listen to me. My daughter (2) doesn't always follow directions (which is acceptable at this age) but he is so quick to tell her she can't do something or he wont be her friend or doesn't want her near him (which is not ok). In those situations I always say something like, "I'm sorry you feel that way, but here at Sprouts we all play together, if you need time to yourself you need to go in the other room, but at the activity tables we need to be able to play nicely." This morning his brother (7) took one of his blocks and this kid straight up pulled pack an side swipe/punched him. I obviously took him in the other room to sit out and talk to him and when I asked him what he thought he should do to make his brother feel better and even gave him a situation where the shoe was on the other foot and he just laughed and said he didn't care. About 10 minutes later he finally got up and hugged him. About 30 minutes later "She(my daughter) got to close" to him and he shoved her down and then yelled at her. When I went to talk to him about it he plugged his ears and said he wasn't going to listen to me or my rules. Any suggestions for dealing with this kid? I'm looking at a long term contract with these people and am supposed to have all 3 of them for summer care. At this point the brothers can't even interact at all. The 7 year old is very emotional and thinks he is the one that gets in trouble for everything, when they're equally abusive and negative towards each other. This is just NOT how we do things at Sprouts. So far this has been a very positive play environment and right now I feel like I'm a ref at a boxing match. I need help!

"I'm sorry you feel that way, but here at Sprouts we all play together, if you need time to yourself you need to go in the other room, but at the activity tables we need to be able to play nicely."

Here are my suggestions:
use less words when talking to him. I would say.... play nice...or something to this degree.

I would give him options:
would you like to play nice at the table or would you like to leave the room?

give him things that he will be successful at. be proactive, instead of reactive. when he succeeds at the activity you gave him, give him lots of praise.

I find that some kids can't do well without having a planned out day of things to do. ONce they get to free play, they fall apart and they can't make good decisions.

some children don't know how to play nice, because of their home environments or previous childcare environments. They have to be shown how to play.

YOu need to set clear boundaries and clear consequences with children and you need to be consistent with both. If you negotiate with them, they learn to take advantage of you. so again, be consistent.

when he hurts someone I would say, No, we don't hurt our friends. That is NOT ok. For me hitting is a straight to time out.

With the older kids, I would sit and have them help you define the rules. Write them on a poster board where everyone can see them. Let them help you come up with the rules and the consequences. Then at the start of each day, briefly go over them.

sounds like you are in a for tough summer

[Brooksie]

[B][I]
when he hurts someone I would say, No, we don't hurt our friends. That is NOT ok. For me hitting is a straight to time out.

This kid runs away from me when I try to get him in time out. Literally will run around the room refusing to go to time out. Then what?

[Laurel]

This kid runs away from me when I try to get him in time out. Literally will run around the room refusing to go to time out. Then what?

Tell him: "I will set the timer for X minutes. The minutes will start after you sit down and are quiet." Then ignore him (unless he gets destructive) and go on with your day. When he sits down start timing him. If he gets up or gets loud the time starts over. If he picks up a toy or starts to engage with another child, take the toy away or lead the other child away from him saying "I'm sorry no toys or play until you sit in the chair." Rinse and repeat.

If he is destructive, I'd term and I've never, ever termed anyone. I guess I'm to the point (semi retired) that I am not up for that nonsense especially with 3 children. If I couldn't get them under control in about a month or so I'd tell the parents that it wasn't working out and it was creating stress for the other children in care. They deserve a peaceful day too.

Good luck. I think I had the same three boys once. Just for the summer though. Somehow I made it through to tell about it.

Laurel

[Laurel]

Oh also, my granddaughter was in my daycare and went through some phase for a while that she just would not go to time out. She would cry, scream, kick, etc. Instead of time out I gave her a coloring book and crayons. While it sounds like a reward it really was meant to get her calm. That worked. She had to sit at the table and color until she was calm and that was a substitute for time out.

A teacher I worked with when I worked in a preschool kept trying to find ways to get a 4 year old to time out. After trying everything she concluded that what he really needed was 'attention'. So she sat him on her lap for time out. She talked to him gently, etc. and that worked. When yours says that everyone hates him maybe he needs positive attention also.

Whatever works.....

Laurel

[Brooksie]

Oh also, my granddaughter was in my daycare and went through some phase for a while that she just would not go to time out. She would cry, scream, kick, etc. Instead of time out I gave her a coloring book and crayons. While it sounds like a reward it really was meant to get her calm. That worked. She had to sit at the table and color until she was calm and that was a substitute for time out.

A teacher I worked with when I worked in a preschool kept trying to find ways to get a 4 year old to time out. After trying everything she concluded that what he really needed was 'attention'. So she sat him on her lap for time out. She talked to him gently, etc. and that worked. When yours says that everyone hates him maybe he needs positive attention also.

Whatever works.....

Laurel

Yea, here I like to start time out with a hug and reassurance, then we discuss the problem, let him know he needs to sit out and take some time to calm down. After the timer goes off we talk about it more and brainstorm ways to make it better. The problem is getting him to listen and sit down. I like the idea of telling him the timer starts when he's quite and seated. I'm going to try that. Maybe he really just needs that time to make the decision himself. This group of kids just came from a very negative and abusive provider so I knew I there would be some issues to work through, but I may have bit off a bit more than I can chew. His first week was wonderful.. week number 2.. not so much

[Cradle2crayons]

Disclaimer:::: I'm very against putting labels on children

BUT

What you are describing sounds like a very severe form of CONDUCT disorder.... Which is a psychological disorder... My daughter has a very mild form of it....

Just to give you an idea::::

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/mental-health-conduct-disorder

My daughter was mild ... But I have seen some very serious forms of this... And usually it goes along with other issues....

Again, I never allowed the diagnosis to label my daughter but therapy helped us "fix" it at least for the most part...

[daycare]

im not the biggest fan of using time out, however, if you hit you will SIT.

I would get a hula hoop. put it in a place where he will have nothing to distract him. I would put him in it and say exactly that. If you hit, you will sit.

walk away.................

if he gets out, you calmly take his hand and repeat again and again. I would set the time just like pp said and tell him when the timer goes off I will come to you.

It may take several days of this, but he will get it

[Brooksie]

im not the biggest fan of using time out, however, if you hit you will SIT.

I would get a hula hoop. put it in a place where he will have nothing to distract him. I would put him in it and say exactly that. If you hit, you will sit.

walk away.................

if he gets out, you calmly take his hand and repeat again and again. I would set the time just like pp said and tell him when the timer goes off I will come to you.

It may take several days of this, but he will get it

I'm not a time out person either. I think for the most part its counter productive, but with that sort of extreme behavior there's no other option. It will NOT be tolerated. This kid is just making it very difficult.