What Does This Mean-Can Anyone Explain?

[Country Kids]

Look at this interesting article though I found:

http://www.thinksmall.org/for_early_childhood_professionals/contracts_and_policies

If I'm reading it right, it says we legally can not charge parents if we do not provide care for them on days they are scheduled. So does this mean we can't take paid holidays/vacations/sick day? Does this mean we can't turn them away at the door but still charge them?

What is this really saying?!

[Play Care]

Look at this interesting article though I found:

http://www.thinksmall.org/for_early_childhood_professionals/contracts_and_policies

If I'm reading it right, it says we legally can not charge parents if we do not provide care for them on days they are scheduled. So does this mean we can't take paid holidays/vacations/sick day? Does this mean we can't turn them away at the door but still charge them?

What is this really saying?!

I think you can charge them, but if they don't pay you might not legally be able to collect. But if they refuse to pay, you can terminate their contract and get someone in who will abide by your policies.

[Cradle2crayons]

I didn't get that from the reading... I got that if for instance you refuse care for something NOT covered by the contract, then they don't have to pay

[Heidi]

I didn't get that from the reading... I got that if for instance you refuse care for something NOT covered by the contract, then they don't have to pay

yes...that's what I got too.

So, if you write your contract to say you are not closed on Christmas, then close on Christmas, you cannot LEGALLY make the parent pay for that holiday. Now, that doesn't mean a parent will be a jerk and not pay you. It means they technically don't HAVE to pay you.

[earlystart]

I didn't get that from the reading... I got that if for instance you refuse care for something NOT covered by the contract, then they don't have to pay

Exactly. Vacation and sick days and holidays would be covered by the contract. But if you refused care or closed for something not indicated in your contract then you couldn't charge. So just make all circumstances for closing are laid out in the contract.

[MarinaVanessa]

From the article ...

All contracts, however, should contain the following four clauses.... •The terms of the contract: the days and hours the provider is open and the parent fees for care. These are the only rules that can be legally enforced by a court of law. In other words, if the provider refuses to provide care on a particular day that is covered by the contract, the parent is not legally required to pay for that day.

From this portion of the article I got that the contract needs to say what days the daycare os opened and how much the client needs to pay. So to me putting in your contract that your are open Monday through Friday from 7am to 6pm except for certain holidays and/or vacationssick days then you are telling the client that these days require payment and it is admissible and upholdable in court.

I think what they are saying by "if the provider refuses to provide care on a particular day that is covered by the contract, the parent is not legally required to pay for that day" would be like if you had no more sick time or vacation time and the day was not a holiday and you needed to close for an emergency then you would not be able to charge the client.

If you did not have anything in your contract about having sick days and had to close because you were sick you would not be able to charge the client.

If you went on vacation and nowhere in your contract does it say that you are entitled to paid vacation then you cannot charge the client.

If you say "I am closed on these holidays and they are paid" "I get 5 paid sick days" "I get 5 days paid vacation" etc. then you have just notified them that these days are not days that you are opened and you require payment. If they agree to it then it's legally binding and the provider can charge on those days KWIM?

That's what I got from the article. As long as you put it in your contract and the client signs it ... it's upholdable in court.

[WImom]

I didn't get that from the reading... I got that if for instance you refuse care for something NOT covered by the contract, then they don't have to pay

That's what I thought it meant too.

[Hunni Bee]

From the article ...


From this portion of the article I got that the contract needs to say what days the daycare os opened and how much the client needs to pay. So to me putting in your contract that your are open Monday through Friday from 7am to 6pm except for certain holidays and/or vacationssick days then you are telling the client that these days require payment and it is admissible and upholdable in court.

I think what they are saying by "if the provider refuses to provide care on a particular day that is covered by the contract, the parent is not legally required to pay for that day" would be like if you had no more sick time or vacation time and the day was not a holiday and you needed to close for an emergency then you would not be able to charge the client.

If you did not have anything in your contract about having sick days and had to close because you were sick you would not be able to charge the client.

If you went on vacation and nowhere in your contract does it say that you are entitled to paid vacation then you cannot charge the client.

If you say "I am closed on these holidays and they are paid" "I get 5 paid sick days" "I get 5 days paid vacation" etc. then you have just notified them that these days are not days that you are opened and you require payment. If they agree to it then it's legally binding and the provider can charge on those days KWIM?

That's what I got from the article. As long as you put it in your contract and the client signs it ... it's upholdable in court.

So what if the parent brings the child, they are clearly too ill to remain in care and you turn away at the door. Would that be considered a day "covered by your contract" or can a parent refuse to pay that too?

[Cradle2crayons]

If you have an illness policy that states that care for illness will not be refunded and you don't offer them sick days, then they have to pay you. I think what this article says is that if you don't have an illness policy and in your contract doesn't state you get paid even when they are sick, then that may be a problem. Aka be sure your illness policy and contracts are good.

[AmyKidsCo]

So what if the parent brings the child, they are clearly too ill to remain in care and you turn away at the door. Would that be considered a day "covered by your contract" or can a parent refuse to pay that too?

I think it depends on what your policies state. If your policies state you don't care for children who are too sick to remain in care, that day would be covered by your contract, but if your policies don't, it may not be covered.

[Play Care]

I didn't get that from the reading... I got that if for instance you refuse care for something NOT covered by the contract, then they don't have to pay

A couple of years ago a provider in another forum I frequent terminated a family. In her contract, that the parent had signed, it said that payment was due during the termination period (two week notice) no matter who had initiated the termination, AND if the termination was immediate (no notice due to serious issues) the two weeks fee was still due. She had initially given the family a two week notice, but then the situation escalated and she told them not to come back. Because the way she had worded her contract she took the family to small claims court for back fees including the amount during the termination notice.

She was essentially laughed out of court. The judge refused to award her the back pay from the notice period because he said she can't make a family pay when she refused service - even though the family had signed the contract. In addition he said that they had signed the bottom of the contract so he had no way of knowing if they had read the clause about the fee due during the term notice (and of course the family claimed they had no idea) or she had added it after the fact...This is why I now have the family initial next to each section in my contract.

I have also heard of other providers going to court and only getting awarded the time they actually worked minus paid days off, despite what the signed contract states. This is one of my big reasons for getting paid in advance of care, so I'm never behind. I DO think paid days off are more of a courtesy than legally required/enforceable just from what I've witnessed/heard. I don't know how much is left to the interpretation of the judge.

[Cradle2crayons]

I agree.... Contracts still have to follow the law.... If the law says she refused care then the family doesn't have to pay...NAND it was not for an illness etc... Then I can understand... And yes... I make them sign each section... Best idea ever....

But for instance, if I put in my contract that they have to pay me for my personal vacations and the law says no, then it doesn't matter that it was in my contract.... So I'd always check laws on contract stuff...

[Country Kids]

A couple of years ago a provider in another forum I frequent terminated a family. In her contract, that the parent had signed, it said that payment was due during the termination period (two week notice) no matter who had initiated the termination, AND if the termination was immediate (no notice due to serious issues) the two weeks fee was still due. She had initially given the family a two week notice, but then the situation escalated and she told them not to come back. Because the way she had worded her contract she took the family to small claims court for back fees including the amount during the termination notice.

She was essentially laughed out of court. The judge refused to award her the back pay from the notice period because he said she can't make a family pay when she refused service - even though the family had signed the contract. In addition he said that they had signed the bottom of the contract so he had no way of knowing if they had read the clause about the fee due during the term notice (and of course the family claimed they had no idea) or she had added it after the fact...This is why I now have the family initial next to each section in my contract.

I have also heard of other providers going to court and only getting awarded the time they actually worked minus paid days off, despite what the signed contract states. This is one of my big reasons for getting paid in advance of care, so I'm never behind. I DO think paid days off are more of a courtesy than legally required/enforceable just from what I've witnessed/heard. I don't know how much is left to the interpretation of the judge.

Even though if your paid ahead, couldn't the court make you pay back the money for instance the paid holidays, sick time, vacation? Thats what would scare me, having to come back up with the money for this.

[Play Care]

Even though if your paid ahead, couldn't the court make you pay back the money for instance the paid holidays, sick time, vacation? Thats what would scare me, having to come back up with the money for this.

I don't think that would be the case - If they were paying you paid vacations, holiday, etc. all along per the contract then that would be something else. I think it's more specifically what you are due after you or the family terminate the arrangement (assuming if you are in court you are no longer wathing the family) I hope that makes sense.

I'm not a lawyer/judge though

[MarinaVanessa]

So what if the parent brings the child, they are clearly too ill to remain in care and you turn away at the door. Would that be considered a day "covered by your contract" or can a parent refuse to pay that too?

I think it depends on what your policies state. If your policies state you don't care for children who are too sick to remain in care, that day would be covered by your contract, but if your policies don't, it may not be covered.

Yes I agree, I think it depends on the contract and policies. My contract says that my fees are a flat weekly rate and are based on enrollment not attendance and I also have an illness policy that says that kids with symptoms for exclusion must stay home. The first policy covers payment for the days that the child is absent etc.