Sticky Situation: Divorced DCM/Friend

[blandino]

Oh and just for everyones info, it was actually DCM who would have been paying child support to DCD. Her income iS higher. She chose to pay 100% of childcare, rather than pay him child support. I am not disagreeing with that decision/mandate. But I just wanted to know if things chane once payments are only coming from one parent.

[Willow]

Oh and just for everyones info, it was actually DCM who would have been paying child support to DCD. Her income iS higher. She chose to pay 100% of childcare, rather than pay him child support. I am not disagreeing with that decision/mandate. But I just wanted to know if things chane once payments are only coming from one parent.

Just because one parent makes more money doesn't mean the other has to pay them a thing.

Child support is about covering the expenses of the kiddo. Are you thinking of alimony?


I'm telling you, there is no way a judge would grant their divorce without child custody and support nailed down.


Perhaps you can email about the contact information though? Just ask if it's ok if mom is the primary contact.

[MNMum]

You have to think about this differently. It may differ state to state, however in MN, $ and parent having contact/ability to make decisions about childs care/etc are two separate things. A father could be ordered to pay support and not be paying it, and he would still have a say in the legal custody (making decisions about the child regarding schooling, medical, etc). Do they have 50/50 physical custody and joint LEGAL custody?

I tend to communicate with mother's more than father's in general, as mom's usually want more details etc. I will usually call mom if child is sick, etc. That being said, unless there is an order against giving dad info, I would not withhold information from him.

[rmc20021]

If they have a divorce decree, there is definitely an order for child support.

When I was going through mine I said I wanted NO support. Judge said no judge would grant a divorce with that stipulation unless dad was willing to sign over his rights. Literally sent us out in the middle of the hearing to figure out a financial agreement. Came back with $50 a month and he LAUGHED. Whipped out his calculator and ordered he at least pay the state required minimum based on his income (even fathers with no.income are given an ordered minimum). Child care expenses are included in that final number. Everything is.

Whether I choose to collect that ordered child support is my business, but there's no way she went through the legal divorce process and that wasn't nailed down.

I did the same thing when I got my divorce...told the attorney I did not want ANYTHING from him in the line of child support. I was told support MUST be ordered. It was set at 20.00 per month...and he STILL did not pay it.

OP stated that there was no child support being paid, not that it wasn't ordered though. So in that case, being a friend of mine, I'd have a hard time dealing with a cop out dad myself, but we still have to abide by the laws. He is still the dad even if he's being a jerk and not supporting his child, and he still has rights unless and until a court says otherwise.
In the divorce decree will also outline custody. If they share legal custody he has a right to talk to you and discuss all aspects of her care. If they share physical custody he has a right to pick her up and drop her off as well. That wouldn't be up for debate, he'd be entitled to that access according to the law.

[rmc20021]

It's beside the point, but he does not pay any child support. And not in a deadbeat dad way, he wasn't ordered to pay any.

I would never hold information about a child's progress, I meant a contact person for paperwork/forms/ schedule changes/ etc. not info about the child.

Guess I lied...didn't read down to this post. YES...there has to be an order for child support. IT's the law, not anybody else's discretion...not the judge, mother, father etc. That sounds kind of fishy to me....

[Blackcat31]

Oh and just for everyones info, it was actually DCM who would have been paying child support to DCD. Her income iS higher. She chose to pay 100% of childcare, rather than pay him child support. I am not disagreeing with that decision/mandate. But I just wanted to know if things chane once payments are only coming from one parent.

Can I ask, WHAT it is that you thought would or should change?

NOT being rude/disrespectful....just curious as it seems there is obviously some personal feelings effecting this situation, which I completely understand since this DCM is your friend but in all honesty....why not just do what is in the best interest of the child (no matter how you or DCM feel about the dad) and communicate openly and freely with BOTH parents.

I know this DCD might not be an ideal ex but again in all honesty......like Judge Judy says...."She (DCM) picked him" so she needs to deal with whatever she has going on in regards to him.

Even if DCD pays NOTHING...as long as he retains 50/50 custody and has a viable relationship with his child, I would continue communicating with BOTH parents about EVERYTHING that effects the DCG.

It truly IS what is best for the child.

Even if only one parent pays for the care. In the end, the child has no idea who pays for what. ALL she knows is that she has two parents, both of which love her and support her (albeit in two different ways) in everything she does.



*On a side note, I feel for you and 100% understand as this mom is your BFF but again, in these situations it IS absolutely vital that you remain non-biased and professional with BOTH parents of this child as long as she is enrolled in your care.

[Lyss]

I have a DCG where DCM & DCD have 50/50 custody, neither pays any child support. They were married, but divorced after DCG was born. I think they have a bit of a strange agreement but for them it works. DCD pays medical insurance (DCG is on his plan at work, DCM's work didn't offer coverage), but not child support. Since DCG is here ONLY on "DCDs time" he is fully responsible, just as DCM is fully responsible for the preschool that DCG attends on "her time." However the decree states (I have a copy)that anything she attends across both parent's scheduled times, they are both equally responsible for payment and supplies. So if DCG was here full time DCD and DCM would be jointly/equally responsible since she is here on both their days.

I have DCPs that have separate bank accounts (both a married and not married set), I don't give DCD (one who's bank account the check comes from) more decision making power because they are BOTH on the contract.

IMO is really just comes down to your contract, if they are both on it, and there is no decree saying DCD no longer shares custody, then you should inform both of important things and have each parent sign/read paperwork. As for schedule I would definitely check with each of them because DCM can't dictate what DCD will be doing on his days.

[blandino]

I knew I was seeing it slanted, so to try and make every effort to look at it fairly I tried to put it in the perspective of "if they were new clients with this arrangement, what would I do".

If I had new clients who were divorced, and split 50/50 custody, but one parent was solely responsible for payments, would I just contract with that DCP ? And therefore As a business transaction, the one with financial responsibility and whom I am contracted with, would need to sign all paperwork, right ?


I had every intention of sharing information/notices/daily reports etc. with DCD - anything that pertains to DCG's well being. Up until this point I have just been collecting signatures from whichever parent has her on the days she comes to daycare.

Can I ask, WHAT it is that you thought would or should change?

NOT being rude/disrespectful....just curious as it seems there is obviously some personal feelings effecting this situation, which I completely understand since this DCM is your friend but in all honesty....why not just do what is in the best interest of the child (no matter how you or DCM feel about the dad) and communicate openly and freely with BOTH parents.

I know this DCD might not be an ideal ex but again in all honesty......like Judge Judy says...."She (DCM) picked him" so she needs to deal with whatever she has going on in regards to him.

Even if DCD pays NOTHING...as long as he retains 50/50 custody and has a viable relationship with his child, I would continue communicating with BOTH parents about EVERYTHING that effects the DCG.

It truly IS what is best for the child.

Even if only one parent pays for the care. In the end, the child has no idea who pays for what. ALL she knows is that she has two parents, both of which love her and support her (albeit in two different ways) in everything she does.



*On a side note, I feel for you and 100% understand as this mom is your BFF but again, in these situations it IS absolutely vital that you remain non-biased and professional with BOTH parents of this child as long as she is enrolled in your care.

Blackcat, I always appreciate your input and questions - no offense taken. I guess I was thinking of paperwork that requires signatures, schedule changes (DCG is p/t), permission slips, notices, food program renewal forms, and specifically contracts. And, also I guess when it comes time to renew policies/contracts in August would I just contract with DCM ?

I have dealt with a total of 2 divorced DCP in the past 10 years. One set was already divorced and split DC costs according to a court mandated percentage, and the other divorced while children were in care - but DCD wasn't around anymore. So I just have no idea if I am supposed to handle things differently.

Up until this point DCM and DCD have been on superb terms, but with things getting icky, I just thought maybe I should have my ducks in a row ?!?

I thought I remembered that you said when dealing with divorced parents that you had one parent that you chose to be your go to person, with whom you give all paperwork, etc. Forgive me, if that wasn't you. So I was thinking along those lines...

[MarinaVanessa]

Sounds like you already found your solution but I wanted to add that I do believe that it depends on your area and state. I'm in CA and I have a friend that's divorced and there is no custody order or child support order. They discussed this with their attorney's and mediator and that's what they got. Each just wanted a clean break and left to decide for themselves who and how often their son stayed with who.

On that note however I wouldn't recommend that but that's another story. I just wanted to say that iy cab be possible depending on where you live. That being said I personally would never withhold acces, information or updates to any parent unless I had a court document saying otherwise (custody order etc). I could care less who the primary custodian of the child was, in CA both parents legally have access to their child, their child records (school, medical, daycare files etc) pretty much whenever they want unless they have something in writing saying that they don't.

In CA even an unmarried couple can have a separation without a legal custody order and o would have to let either parent pick up, drop off, visit and review the child's file. If one parent cones to daycare and kidnaps the child and there is no custorder even the police won't interfere, the kid is with a parent. At that point the other parent has to go to court and file and fight for custody while the other parent can withhold visits until they have a custody order.

I always inform my clients and even potential clients of this to make sure that unless I have a copy of a custody order in the child's file, I can't and won't deny a parent contact at daycare. The order has to specifically say that the parent can't have contact with the child or have the custody schedule (and the parent can only pick up when it says to). Just more tidbits for thought.

[MarinaVanessa]

I knew I was seeing it slanted, so to try and make every effort to look at it fairly I tried to put it in the perspective of "if they were new clients with this arrangement, what would I do".

If I had new clients who were divorced, and split 50/50 custody, but one parent was solely responsible for payments, would I just contract with that DCP ? And therefore As a business transaction, the one with financial responsibility and whom I am contracted with, would need to sign all paperwork, right ?


I had every intention of sharing information/notices/daily reports etc. with DCD - anything that pertains to DCG's well being. Up until this point I have just been collecting signatures from whichever parent has her on the days she comes to daycare.





Blackcat, I always appreciate your input and questions - no offense taken. I guess I was thinking of paperwork that requires signatures, schedule changes (DCG is p/t), permission slips, notices, food program renewal forms, and specifically contracts. And, also I guess when it comes time to renew policies/contracts in August would I just contract with DCM ?

I have dealt with a total of 2 divorced DCP in the past 10 years. One set was already divorced and split DC costs according to a court mandated percentage, and the other divorced while children were in care - but DCD wasn't around anymore. So I just have no idea if I am supposed to handle things differently.

Up until this point DCM and DCD have been on superb terms, but with things getting icky, I just thought maybe I should have my ducks in a row ?!?

I thought I remembered that you said when dealing with divorced parents that you had one parent that you chose to be your go to person, with whom you give all paperwork, etc. Forgive me, if that wasn't you. So I was thinking along those lines...

Legally unless they have a court order saying otherwise, they both share physical and legal custody of the child regardless of who is on your contract. Your contract is just for you to use in court if they should skip on payment. In other words, whoever is on the contract can be sued for unpaid fees. It doesn't really mean that you can keep one parent away from the child if only one name is on the contract.

[blandino]

Sounds like you already found your solution but I wanted to add that I do believe that it depends on your area and state. I'm in CA and I have a friend that's divorced and there is no custody order or child support order. They discussed this with their attorney's and mediator and that's what they got. Each just wanted a clean break and left to decide for themselves who and how often their son stayed with who.

On that note however I wouldn't recommend that but that's another story. I just wanted to say that iy cab be possible depending on where you live. That being said I personally would never withhold acces, information or updates to any parent unless I had a court document saying otherwise (custody order etc). I could care less who the primary custodian of the child was, in CA both parents legally have access to their child, their child records (school, medical, daycare files etc) pretty much whenever they want unless they have something in writing saying that they don't.

In CA even an unmarried couple can have a separation without a legal custody order and o would have to let either parent pick up, drop off, visit and review the child's file. If one parent cones to daycare and kidnaps the child and there is no custorder even the police won't interfere, the kid is with a parent. At that point the other parent has to go to court and file and fight for custody while the other parent can withhold visits until they have a custody order.

I always inform my clients and even potential clients of this to make sure that unless I have a copy of a custody order in the child's file, I can't and won't deny a parent contact at daycare. The order has to specifically say that the parent can't have contact with the child or have the custody schedule (and the parent can only pick up when it says to). Just more tidbits for thought.

Thank you for saying that, because I am fairly certain that my area is operating like yours. DCM has great legal advice, and am fairly certain of the details I do know.

I would never ever withhold information about the child from the DCD, he is a great dad and a nice guy, and I would never hold any information from him. I don't think I emphasized that enough. I just wanted to know if I should switch to using Dcm for all signed forms & documents - basically all "official" papers. I would continue to include him in all communication about DCG, and would never cut him out of that.

[Blackcat31]

Blandino~ ok so after re-reading this thread... I get what you're asking... I misunderstood.

You are asking which parent you should have a FINANCIAL contract with right?

I was thinking contracting, like sharing paperwork, information and whatnot.... (There are some days I just scan over posts and dont read clearly)

So anyways to answer your original question, yes I would have only one contract for payment arrangements and have only that parent deal with the financial aspect of care.

Like MV said, the contract only protects you should you have to sue someone for an unpaid balance.

Obviously, if DCD is sharing custody, I would still have him sign agreeing to abide by all other (except payment) policies.

Everything else seems to be a non-issue since you have already been sharing all other aspects with both parents.

Sorry to have made this even more complicated...

[allsmiles]

I did the same thing when I got my divorce...told the attorney I did not want ANYTHING from him in the line of child support. I was told support MUST be ordered. It was set at 20.00 per month...and he STILL did not pay it.

OP stated that there was no child support being paid, not that it wasn't ordered though. So in that case, being a friend of mine, I'd have a hard time dealing with a cop out dad myself, but we still have to abide by the laws. He is still the dad even if he's being a jerk and not supporting his child, and he still has rights unless and until a court says otherwise.
In the divorce decree will also outline custody. If they share legal custody he has a right to talk to you and discuss all aspects of her care. If they share physical custody he has a right to pick her up and drop her off as well. That wouldn't be up for debate, he'd be entitled to that access according to the law.

that must depend on the state.. i said i did not want child support in my divorce and it was not ordered.. I made an agreement with him at the time because i knew i could ALWAYS go back and get it ordered..which i DID a year later when he TRIED me.. ::