An Eye For An Eye?

[Willow]

Do you mediate every conflict your children and daycare children encounter or do you think it's beneficial to let them work it out amongst themselves taking advantage of natural child "inflicted" consequences? (I had no idea how to word that better )

So if one child hits do you intervene or let the victim get a chance to smack back?

How about with biters?

Hair pullers?

Toy snatchers?

In the case of older children, if they're being bullied would you encourage them to stand up for themselves or strictly go to teachers/coaches for help?


Is there value in that kind of feedback or do you think it just breeds a dog eat dog chaos?

I used to be a big zero tolerance fan, but my son was having some issues with a relentless little turd in his class lately. The school wasn't doing anything about it so we told him to do what he needed to do to get the point across to the brat that he needed to back off. He was SUPER uncomfortable with that idea and started getting pretty frazzled about having no help with the daily confrontations.

The principal just called and left me a message (was in the middle of diaper changes) and said he actually had it out with him today I tried to call her back right away but she didn't answer so I think I'm stuck waiting for him to get off the bus to get details. She did specify that he was NOT in trouble so that's a relief.

The whole thing has me thinking quite a bit though. I obviously didn't want it to come to that but frankly I'm glad he had the courage.

It makes me wonder if as a small child I should have let him duke it out with his sister...if he wouldn't have allowed himself to be pushed around for as long as he was. At the same time I'm glad, especially as a boy, that he has that restraint?


I'm confused if you can't tell and have no idea if I should hand him an ice cream cone when he gets home and tell him I'm proud, or hug him and tell him I'm sorry....

[KDC]

I've struggled with this in the past, so I'm curious to see what the replies are.

What I would do...
Smack/bite - zero tolerance. I would NOT knowingly let the other child get an opportunity to 'smack/bite' back. There would be other consequences that do not involve violence.

I have the child try to resolve 'tattling' issues on their own. Any issue where the child will NOT be injured I try to have them work it out.

I get the allure... My ds was on the school bus and another child was smacking him *jokingly*, only my ds was NOT laughing. My ds is so docile he wouldn't say knock it off. He just froze and let it happen. He was in Kindergarten so I notified authorities - I'm glad to say it was nipped in the bud! We received letters from the 2 children involved in their handwriting apologizing. They're now 2 grade levels higher and acquaintances without issues.

I think that's just his personality. I don't think letting him injure another child would have made him a stronger person, if anything it might have made him the bully. I want to teach him to fight with intelligence and not muscles. I might be wrong, and regret my decision one day, but in my heart - violence isn't the answer.

I would hold back on the ice cream, but a heart to heart discussion of how every situation is different and the choices we make can lead to different results. Good Luck! I'll be watching for the replies =)

[bluemoose_mom]

My two cents...

Biting is not acceptable, and I would not let it go undiscplined, regardless of why. Punishment would happen, age appropriately.

Hitting...would sometimes be punished in older children (younger it would be punished regardless cause they don't understand), like grade school. But honestly, if it's in self defense of another child's physical attack, I would have a conversation about it, but probably no punishment and would probably say something to the affect of good for standing up to yourself, after you've done "proper" channels (telling teacher, parent's, etc etc.)

Toy snatching in younger children...ask for it back, if they don't give it back, take it back. If you can't get it, tell someone. I don't have physically violent children though and would perhaps approach this differently if I knew it could cause physical altercations.

Accidental injury would go unpunished. DD (3 yrs) was trying to take a toy from DCB (will be 2 years in July) and DCB was protecting it (cradling it by his chest). DD got an accidental elbow in the eye...didn't punish DCB at all, nor did I give much ouchie attention to eye, and made a point to tell DD why I didn't. She had a black eye for two weeks...I think it made a better lesson than any punishment I could have given to her.

[clep]

I believe as a provider it is my responsibility to teach them the skills for success. I intervene every time, share what wasn't acceptable, what they can do next time and have them apologize.

We do puppet shows where one puppet bites, hits or violates the puppet some other way. The children then give ideas of what the puppet could have done to get their needs met without hurting another.

I have a no abuse policy in my day home period. If children are allowed to hit back, they are not learning the required skills to handle it in a more productive manner in the future imho.

[Willow]

I have a no abuse policy in my day home period. If children are allowed to hit back, they are not learning the required skills to handle it in a more productive manner in the future imho.

This has always been my belief as well, until recently.....

Fact is the rest of the world ISN'T always (if ever?) as well regulated as a daycare can be. How do you prepare you children and daycare children for the day that an adult isn't there to defend them? From children who don't give a rip even if an adult tries? From the ones who wait until a teacher isn't looking, who lie, and threaten additional retaliation if the other child tries to get help?

There are definitely kids out there like that, and we've all encountered bully adults who never grow out of it too.

How is letting an adult handle every physical conflict a child has preparing them for that reality? How does that approach prepare a child for that kind of individual in the future?

(Not being argumentative, just searching for answers....)

[Willow]

Delving even further, practice makes perfect right?

My home growing up conflict with my siblings was strictly regulated and largely prohibited. I was not allowed to question authority either.


As an adult I have a terribly hard time standing up for myself in relationships with my family, friends and daycare parents.

Perhaps I have no backbone because I was never allowed or encouraged to grow one??

[clep]

This has always been my belief as well, until recently.....

Fact is the rest of the world ISN'T always (if ever?) as well regulated as a daycare can be. How do you prepare you children and daycare children for the day that an adult isn't there to defend them? From children who don't give a rip even if an adult tries? From the ones who wait until a teacher isn't looking, who lie, and threaten additional retaliation if the other child tries to get help?

There are definitely kids out there like that, and we've all encountered bully adults who never grow out of it too.

How is letting an adult handle every physical conflict a child has preparing them for that reality? How does that approach prepare a child for that kind of individual in the future?

(Not being argumentative, just searching for answers....)

I think by the time a child is old enough and required to defend themselves they are no longer a part of my day home. There is a time to teach a child to defend themselves and how to handle conflict without an adult present. It is not likely that before grade one they will ever be in that situation.

We start doing that slowly over about a year from the age of five till 6 with our own son.

That is really the parents issue imho. I am here to keep the children safe and teach them appropriate skills while they are with me and in my care. Once they are in school, that is when the parent needs to be involved in taking care of teaching them further skills to carry them through the school years.

[Willow]

I think by the time a child is old enough and required to defend themselves they are no longer a part of my day home. There is a time to teach a child to defend themselves and how to handle conflict without an adult present. It is not likely that before grade one they will ever be in that situation.

We start doing that slowly over about a year from the age of five till 6 with our own son.

That is really the parents issue imho. I am here to keep the children safe and teach them appropriate skills while they are with me and in my care. Once they are in school, that is when the parent needs to be involved in taking care of teaching them further skills to carry them through the school years.

This is what I was looking for

My son is 8 and in the 3rd grade, what's going on with him in the original post is the root of my original post. It's why I asked what you do not just with your daycare children but your own as well

When you say you began teaching that from the age of 5 to age 6, what did that all entail?

How do you transition from zero tolerance and loads of intervention, to self reliance and teaching a child how to stand up for themselves?

Why did you choose the age of 5/6 to start that process?

[bunnyslippers]

My opinions on this have definitely changed. In my daycare, I have a no biting/hair pulling/hitting policy...HOWEVER, with the exception of biting, I will sometimes monitor the issue from afar. I think children need to learn how to advocate for themselves with their friends, and how to resolve naturally occurring conflicts.

My own son is in kindergarten now, and was with me in my home daycare for the first few years of his life before kindergarten. I now here that he "tattles" and frequently looks to teachers to help him resolve issues. I think I was too quick to intervene when he was growing up, and he is now having to learn how to handle these situations in the big bad world of kindergarten.

I would never let a child get injured at the hands of another child...but I do think it is my job to let children experience natural consequences.

[Willow]

My opinions on this have definitely changed. In my daycare, I have a no biting/hair pulling/hitting policy...HOWEVER, with the exception of biting, I will sometimes monitor the issue from afar. I think children need to learn how to advocate for themselves with their friends, and how to resolve naturally occurring conflicts.

My own son is in kindergarten now, and was with me in my home daycare for the first few years of his life before kindergarten. I now here that he "tattles" and frequently looks to teachers to help him resolve issues. I think I was too quick to intervene when he was growing up, and he is now having to learn how to handle these situations in the big bad world of kindergarten.

I would never let a child get injured at the hands of another child...but I do think it is my job to let children experience natural consequences.

That's exactly where my brain is at right now!!!!

I'm questioning if I need to back off quite a bit. I've never been any sort of helicopter parent or provider but I am wondering if I've created too regulated of an environment. I do wonder if it's impeding my own kids ability to handle conflict of their own. And if it's affecting them could it effect the other kids in my care as well?!

[AmyLeigh]

...HOWEVER, with the exception of biting, I will sometimes monitor the issue from afar. I think children need to learn how to advocate for themselves with their friends, and how to resolve naturally occurring conflicts.


I would never let a child get injured at the hands of another child...but I do think it is my job to let children experience natural consequences.

This, definitely. Since my 3 children (ages 9,6, 4) are together pretty much 24/7, there are frequent spats that occur. I stay out of them and they are allowed to try to figure out the cause of the problem, which is usually miscommunication. But, they know that getting physical will not only not solve their problem, it brings me into the picture, which brings a whole 'nother set of problems for them. I want them to be assertive, but not aggressive.

[clep]

This is what I was looking for

My son is 8 and in the 3rd grade, what's going on with him in the original post is the root of my original post. It's why I asked what you do not just with your daycare children but your own as well

When you say you began teaching that from the age of 5 to age 6, what did that all entail?

How do you transition from zero tolerance and loads of intervention, to self reliance and teaching a child how to stand up for themselves?

Why did you choose the age of 5/6 to start that process?

We started watching tv shows about bullying, reading multiple books and discussing different ways of handling it without having to be the wuss of the group.

We started Tae Kwon do classes at five so he knew how to defend himself without having to hit anyone, and had teaching that focused on defense not fighting. That helped a great deal during grade one recess.

For the first number of years I kept him away from McDonalds play places and others places like that because from what I have experienced, there is a great deal of bullying that goes on there due to parents that chat while their children destroy the place. We started going to places like that and those big jungle gyms where a parent has take at least five min to aid their screaming child. He handled situations how he saw fit on his own and when he wasn't happy with the result we discussed different options until we found one he was happy with. We worked on skills. We ate out lots. We put him in situations every day for the whole year where he would be exposed to bullying and for at least half a day one day on the weekends. He had a ton of fun learning about this subject.

He has moved up tremendously in the last five years in his Tae Kwon Do, so if he had to, he could defend himself very well at this point.

[MNMum]

My opinions on this have definitely changed. In my daycare, I have a no biting/hair pulling/hitting policy...HOWEVER, with the exception of biting, I will sometimes monitor the issue from afar. I think children need to learn how to advocate for themselves with their friends, and how to resolve naturally occurring conflicts.

My own son is in kindergarten now, and was with me in my home daycare for the first few years of his life before kindergarten. I now here that he "tattles" and frequently looks to teachers to help him resolve issues. I think I was too quick to intervene when he was growing up, and he is now having to learn how to handle these situations in the big bad world of kindergarten.

I would never let a child get injured at the hands of another child...but I do think it is my job to let children experience natural consequences.

This is how I handle things. I will explain to my little ones the right way to behave, that we use nice hands, etc. However, I'm not always there to intervene. I may be across the room changing a diaper. And to be quite honest, my talk doesn't prove to be the quickest way of teaching. The natural consequences teach the children more quickly. For example, I have a little drama queen right now who screams "Mine" about 100x/day. Someone may just walk near her and she will scream. Well, she did it to the wrong toddler, who wasn't going to let that go - and shoved her(she was not physically hurt, but she is very sensitive and was crying about the situation). Getting that reaction out of her friend is a teaching moment for this little girl. Now, I wasn't within reach anyway, and it happened quickly. I didn't discipline either in this case. Explained to the screamer, that she needs to be kind to her friends, or her friends may do things like that, and we moved on.

[Scout]

Generally, I will stand back and watch what happens and intervene if needed. If a child bites because someone is taking a toy away I will discipline but, I will also tell the other child the reason it happened! I think they need to learn to fend for themselves and try to let them do this as much as I can as long as no one is getting hurt!! I often tell them to "toughen up!":: Usually, if I say that the screaming, crying, tantrums, or whatever will stop immediately!

[mamac]

I have a no biting/hair pulling/hitting policy...HOWEVER, with the exception of biting, I will sometimes monitor the issue from afar. I think children need to learn how to advocate for themselves with their friends, and how to resolve naturally occurring conflicts.

I would never let a child get injured at the hands of another child...but I do think it is my job to let children experience natural consequences.

I agree with this although I believe that in certain situations it is ok for a child to physically defend themselves if the need arises. My ds started kindergarten this year and one of his classmates is a bully who, out of nowhere, will start punching other kids in the gut. (including ds) There is usually a group of parents who let their kids play after school pickup and I witnessed it a number of times. After bringing it to the school's attention and seeing no resolution, my dh and I informed ds that if he was attacked again that he was first allowed to shove the other boy back (hard enough to show he meant business) and tell him to stop. If that didn't work we told him to get away from the situation and tell someone. BUT we also told him to never be afraid to defend himself if he had to. My dh has been teaching him Krav Maga so he is definitely able to protect himself. We just don't want the "eye for an eye consequences" of having him fighting at school if he was just defending himself.

My dh and I went from zero tolerance to learning to defend himself at about age 3. (He is 5 1/2 now) I think before that kids really wouldn't understand the concept of when it's ok to hit someone else. We initially started with the Krav Maga handhold escapes to protect him from strangers/kidnapping and then taught him self defense techniques. We made sure we stressed that fighting back should be his last option and to try to work things out or get out of the situation if possible.

He also has certain close friends that he is allowed to get really physical with (wrestling, tackling, etc) so that he is able to "toughen up". He is only allowed to do that if both boys are being playful. If it turns into fighting without getting resolved quickly, they are redirected to another activity. I think letting "boy be boys" is good for them. I'm just not sure how I would handle two girls in that situation though. Girls fight dirty.