Gay Marriage

[jokalima]

So, what about non-Christian people? Do you discount the legitimacy of their marriage and/or religion?

(Not snarky, seriously asking...)

If you go by Catholicism they will say the marriage is not valid. My mother in law married through the Episcopal Church, after more than 18 years of marriage and following a new faith, she became Catholic, the priest told her she had to get married again by the Catholic Church because basically she had been living with her "partner" during all those years without being married by the catholic church, and she did get married again.

Other christian faith? IDK what they say exactly about it. But most protestant churches do believe marriage is an institution created by God.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

So, what about non-Christian people? Do you discount the legitimacy of their marriage and/or religion?

(Not snarky, seriously asking...)

Do I? No.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

Due to the supreme court hearing a case on the rights of gays and lesbians to marry, our local news stations have been interviewing a lot of local residents on both sides of the issue.

They keep interviewing this one Christian woman who is whole heatedly against equal rights for LGBT. Her main complaint is that marriage is made for a man and a woman to conceive childen to serve her god.

Whenever I hear this I always think about the couples who were married for years and did not have kids whether by choice or infertility. Are the marriages failures in her eyes? Are they failures in her god's eyes? Is their marriage somehow just a civil union because they don't have kids? What if you get married in a church and don't have kids? What if you don't get married in a church and have lots of kids? Which marriage is more legitimate in her eyes or her god's eyes I wonder? What about hetero couples who get married in a church and never have biological children together. Let's say they adopt instead. Is their marriage not legit because they didn't procreate?

On a side note....my next door neighbor (whose house is decorated in crosses, has Jesus bumper stickers, wears all sorts of cross necklaces, earrings, sweatshirts, and sends the most over the top religious holiday cards) has been married in a church twice and now divorced twice. Somehow her failed marriages are legit and my single marriage of 26 years isn't because my wedding wasn't in a church? That is crazy talk to me.

I say let any two adults who love each other marry.

Actually, unless she was cheated on during her FIRST marriage and then choose to remarry ... her second marriage was not legit (...unless she asked for forgiveness of her sin for divorcing). Many second marriages are not "legit."

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

Exactly this but with the difference I don't think they should adopt. I think that deliberately denying a child of a mom/dad figure is not fare.

I am a Christian and I believe that only Christians should follow God's commandments so, there is no way I can tell an Atheist to live according to God's principles because is not going to happen, so same way with Gay couples.

I hear and read a lot ( not only here ) about State/Church separation, but for me is more than that, is also a matter of respect. Some say that the case of the gay couple that could not get married in the place they wanted in NJ is valid because it was not a Church or a official religious building. That is where the respect part comes from, OK, let's say is not officially a religious building but it is in religious grounds, the Church people are telling you that is against their beliefs to rent that to you and that it will be a great conflict with their faith because the building IT IS used for religious ceremonies. Why can't you respect that? Why sue the church? Isn't that doing what you claim Christians do all the time?
I believe they should have the freedom to be with whoever they want, have a civil union completely separated from what is a religious marriage and that the pastors/priests can have the choice to refuse to marry w/out consequences.

I, as an adoptive Mom, have zero problems with people in the gay and lesbian community adopting. God never said to prevent someone who sins from raising children. Otherwise, we'd all be in trouble.

I agree with your last sentence.

[AnneCordelia]

I am proud to live in Canada where gay marriage is already celebrated and legal! DH and I married at Toronto City Hall and the couple before us and the couple after us were gay and came to Canada from NY to have a marriage that was recognised somewhere. 10 years it's been legal here now.

My husband and I are non-religious, and consider ourselves atheist. We still value and treasure our marriage, and would not be willing to give up that name. Marriage has been a civil union for thousands of years, and not just a religious one. Seperate is not equal.

[CedarCreek]

Exactly this but with the difference I don't think they should adopt. I think that deliberately denying a child of a mom/dad figure is not fare.

uh...so you don't think that single parents should be allowed children either? They don't have both figures.

[youretooloud]

Actually, unless she was cheated on during her FIRST marriage and then choose to remarry ... her second marriage was not legit (...unless she asked for forgiveness of her sin for divorcing). Many second marriages are not "legit."

The guy next door (the overweight one with too much body hair that I was complaining about recently) told me that he was married in a catholic church, and when he divorced, he was no longer allowed to be married in a Catholic church again. So, his second marriage is not recognized in his church because he and his first wife divorced. If he had been widowed, they would have married him in his church the second time.

I don't know anything about the Catholic church though.. I just thought that was interesting, that he's LEGALLY married now, but not in the eyes of the church.

[craftymissbeth]

I guess I just don't see how religion (for lack of a better word) can own the term marriage.

My husband and I were married in his sister's house by a retired judge. We are married. No if's, and's, or but's about it. End of story.. we are MARRIED. By law, we are MARRIED. Married, married, married... whew, had a small breakdown there ::

But I did find in the Oxford Dictionary that marriage is defined as the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife. I do realize that this technical definition only says a man and woman, but there is no mention of religion. I suppose my biggest complaint is the claim on the word marriage by those who are religious.

I'm not trying to offend anyone and I'm a generally open-minded sister, but I just don't get it. Perhaps someone could point out a bible passage that says something to the effect of "and God created marriage and this is how it's defined"? Although, even if the bible says this, it doesn't necessarily mean that I'll believe it... it will just help me understand a bit better.

[Lyss]

Exactly this but with the difference I don't think they should adopt. I think that deliberately denying a child of a mom/dad figure is not fare.

This opened a whole other can of worms in my head when I read it ...BUT I'm not gonna go there

If they can provide (I don't just mean money, but love, stability, security) for the child I see no problem with adoption by the LGBT community. We have far to many children in the foster system who need and want love.

[MissSarah]

I am socially liberal, so gay marriage is no big deal to me, and I think they should have legal rights (and pay the dang marriage penalty taxes!) BUT I also think that churches should be able to decide if they will/will not allow gay couples to be married in their church without fear of reprisal/discrimination charges, etc. kwim?

The only problem I have with the gay pride parades is that a lot of times there is a LOT of near nudity going on. But that is because I am a very modest person and I don't want to see that much skin out in public with anyone - doesn't matter if they are gay OR straight... It just seems to be very prevalent with the pride parades.

[bluemoose_mom]

I'm with Blackcat...but don't really have much passion for this topic.

I do think it needs to be a federal definition, it being left up to the states is just confusing.

As for adoption...as someone who is adopted...it's love that is needed. I didn't receive that (from a prominent pastor). From hetro, single, gay, lesbian, older, or younger person.

To the person above me, asking where the bible defines marriage, does this quote answer your question?

Matthew 19:3-8

3) Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”4)“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5) and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6)So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”7)“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”8)Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9)I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

[AnneCordelia]

I guess I just don't see how religion (for lack of a better word) can own the term marriage.

My husband and I were married in his sister's house by a retired judge. We are married. No if's, and's, or but's about it. End of story.. we are MARRIED. By law, we are MARRIED. Married, married, married... whew, had a small breakdown there ::

But I did find in the Oxford Dictionary that marriage is defined as the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife. I do realize that this technical definition only says a man and woman, but there is no mention of religion. I suppose my biggest complaint is the claim on the word marriage by those who are religious.

I'm not trying to offend anyone and I'm a generally open-minded sister, but I just don't get it. Perhaps someone could point out a bible passage that says something to the effect of "and God created marriage and this is how it's defined"? Although, even if the bible says this, it doesn't necessarily mean that I'll believe it... it will just help me understand a bit better.

It gives me a bit of conniption fit too, as a happily MARRIED atheist.

Besides if we are talking biblical definitions of marriage, it often includes more than one wife, women treated as property, legal concubines and other factors that religious women today would likely refuse.

[AnneCordelia]

Matthew 19:3-8

3) Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”4)“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5) and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6)So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”7)“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”8)Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9)I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

All Jesus does in this scripture is quote Genesis 2:24. Interestingly enough only 44 verses later, in Genesis, God condones a polygamy marriage, which is most certainly not between just one man and one woman.

I think that many laypeople misinterpreted the verses or meaning behind them to support their agenda. Two shall be one could simply be referring to consummation of a marriage. Its so hard to tell because the NIV is quite drastically different from the KJV. And the KJV is different still from the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek that the bible was written in.

[bunnyslippers]

I am a musical performer, and as a result, have many gay friends. I do not understand why love between anyone is illegal. Get over it. We are all people, and we have the right to choose who we love.

[originalkat]

I personally don't care what other people do.

However with that said, I do think marriage should be between a man and a woman.

That doesn't mean though that I don't think gay and lesbian couples shouldn't be allowed to have civil unions or be lawfully joined so they too can receive the benefits and perks that married folks do.

I just don't agree with the term "marriage" and although others may feel that is wrong or not socially acceptable, I don't care. It is what I believe and that isn't going to change.

I have no issues with gay/lesbian couples who want to raise children and do all the same things other couples do. I am not one bit prejudice or biased against anyone who wants to be in a committed relationship with the person they love. Whether that person is the same sex as them or not.

This is exactly how I feel. I have had a lesbian couple in my daycare in the past. They were an awesome family!