Neglect

[Chatter Box]

Got to thinking about my post last week and just been thinking about it a lot. A what point do you determine neglect is possibly occurring and something you should report? Not sure that I really have enough evidence or that this situation really warrants it but I just don't really know where that line is defined? when do you say... "Ok there is something not right here?"

I am legally not licensed.

Anyone ever had to call? What happened and at what point did you know you had to call?

[SilverSabre25]

without any other information, I would say that the best move is probably to call CPS and ask if what you're seeing constitutes neglect/warrants a report or investigation. Or report and let them determine.

Can you give us a little more information about what you're seeing? I can move this to the members only forum if you want.

[Chatter Box]

Here is the thread

https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60878

The saga continues in that thread over days so you'd have to read it all.

It's just a lot of drama for something I don't have a ton of evidence on. I suspect more is going on than I'm aware of. I feel like something is not right but I have not a lot to back it up. To have a family po'ed at me over a gut feeling may not be the best move. I just can't help wondering if I could somehow get in trouble.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

I would always error on the side of caution. Just because you call doesn't mean anything will happen to the family.

My adopted son had CPS over investigating his neglected/abusive childhood many times throughout it before we hired a private attorney and got him. CPS never took him, or his older sister, out of their mother's care even though they NEEDED to have been removed.
All of that to say, just because you call doesn't mean the child will be removed and the family's life will be in upheaval. They will simply investigate. Some cities are better than others at investigating...

[SilverSabre25]

ooohhhh, okay that one. Yeah. I would probably call. I was thinking neglect actually while that whole situation was going down.

Just know that you may lose the client.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

ooohhhh, okay that one. Yeah. I would probably call. I was thinking neglect actually while that whole situation was going down.

Just know that you may lose the client.

I think she was done with the client anyways (from what I gathered when I just read the thread)!

[EAP]

If you are really concerned call it in and let the agency decide if it warrants an investigation. I read the thread from the original incident and I doubt this is an isolated event. That being said on the surface it doesn't read as medical neglect (not knowing all the facts). But the family might have a CPS history you never know. It is crappy parenting no matter what but it depends on the actual laws if it is neglect.

[lefdaly711]

Its funny that I see this post after just gone to a "Mandated reporter for child abuse" workshop tonight. I learned something interesting. Whatever the situation is, is it neglect or poor parenting?? Thats what the case worker wanted us to understand. She used the word impact. If a child comes in with a full diaper everyday but has no diaper rash, thats no impact and you dont have enough of a problem to call over something like that BUT if the child has a blistering rash you do have the right to call because the child was impacted. The worker basically told us, that anything you have facts about you can call. She said in terms of odd bruises, be on the look out for different stories from mom and dad may tell you. Well.....I hope this helps. Not even sure if this relates to your situation but I feel like I gained some knowledge tonight. I learned that I dont have neglect cases in my DC but I do have some "poor parenting" situations

[AmyKidsCo]

lefdaly711, Thanks for your comment! It hadn't occurred to me before to make a distinction between poor parenting and actual neglect. I hope I never go down that road, but it's good to know.

[Chatter Box]

Its funny that I see this post after just gone to a "Mandated reporter for child abuse" workshop tonight. I learned something interesting. Whatever the situation is, is it neglect or poor parenting?? Thats what the case worker wanted us to understand. She used the word impact. If a child comes in with a full diaper everyday but has no diaper rash, thats no impact and you dont have enough of a problem to call over something like that BUT if the child has a blistering rash you do have the right to call because the child was impacted. The worker basically told us, that anything you have facts about you can call. She said in terms of odd bruises, be on the look out for different stories from mom and dad may tell you. Well.....I hope this helps. Not even sure if this relates to your situation but I feel like I gained some knowledge tonight. I learned that I dont have neglect cases in my DC but I do have some "poor parenting" situations

That's just it I guess. Dirty clothing is not really impacting the child. However there are all these grey areas with this situation. If I've watched this child since October/November and I'm not real sure what is going on how is CPS really going to be able to determine everything.

They obviously can't rely on the parent to be truthful because she's not even saying truthful things to my face when she knows that we both know the truth with some things... such as when she stated that she made the doctor's appointment BECAUSE her child was sick however that is not what occurred. She was postponing taking her daughter to the doctor until her wellness visit that was scheduled long before the illness.

It's one of those things. With certain things we both knew the truth but she found ways to twist the reality of it into something that was not really what happened. Honestly, I think without evidence it's all her word against mine and to be truthful she would make a really good lawyer....or salesmen.

They aren't beating her. She doesn't come with bruises but I did have concerns initially when she started that they weren't feeding her nearly enough. That issue was addressed. i did talk to them eventually about it because while i could do whatever i wanted in mu home it didnt help her when she went home and she made mountains worth of improvement since she had been here right off the bat. She does seem to be eating a regular diet now and as much as she needs to at home now. Shes on regular table foods. Her motor skills however I believe are lacking due to a lack of nutrition that she got before she came here. She seems a little developmentally behind in her motor skills (to me) but not severely.

In the beginning she wrote out this paper and gave it to me the first day she was here and told me to give her 1/2 a 4oz jar of baby food and 2 tsp of oatmeal cereal 2x a day (10am & 2pm) and if she screamed for an hour afterwards to give her 4oz of formula (if needed) but only if she screamed because she would just throw it up afterwards. That is pretty much how she wrote it. She was almost 8 months old at the time. She could not even lay on her stomach and raise her head off the ground.

I started beefing up her oatmeal and giving her formula as I thought she needed before i even talked to them and I'll tell you what she was a different child just within a week. They never remarked on it but all the other parents did. Eventually they stopped questioning how much I was feeding her and just started bringing more instead of exactly only what she thought I should need. It was literally like she was trying to moderate everything I was feeding her. I just started telling her I was feeding her more and that she was doing fine here. I think she started "getting it" but I talked to her anyway about it. The doctor told her in a wellness visit that she was not gaining weight. It just amazes me the doctor is not seeing this.

Every single solitary parent that walked in the door remarked at the improvement she made in such a short amount of time, which really struck me. Because that meant that all those other parents saw how behind she was and saw that 180 in such a short time. I think that was a big flag to me as well. That it wasn't just me reading into something too much maybe? I also had two other infants here (one born on the same exact day as her and the other was about a month behind) that she started picking stuff up from really quickly, where as allegedly, her previous sitter did not have any other children for her to learn from.

They blamed her low weight and lack of energy on her "acid reflux" which I now believe to actually be lactose intolerance now that she has switched to regular milk. She does fine on the lactose free milk (which I recommended that they try) but has issues on everything else formula/regular milk. I had asked her if the doctor ever put her on Zantac because she spit up severely and she said that she did so and she still spit up so she just stopped giving it to her because it was a waste of money.

....Which makes me wonder if they really addressed that issue with their doctor as much as they should have because that should have been an easy fix all those months.

So, I do have concerns that since she's not going to be here anymore there will not be someone looking out for her best interest. Mom is clearly "missing" a lot of things that are blowing up right in front of her face so it makes me wonder if she is missing them out of convenience or because she just really ****s at being a mom. I would say it is excessively poor parenting. Whether it is intentional, I am unsure. She has a 9 year old son. I just don't understand how she can be this bad at this at this point.

[MrsSteinel'sHouse]

Call. That has been my only comfort in my little guy's death... When I had him I called and called....

[Chatter Box]

Call. That has been my only comfort in my little guy's death... When I had him I called and called....

Wow you called while you still had him? How did that go over? They kept bringing him?

[Blackcat31]

I do NOT think it is up to us to decide what constitutes abuse or poor parenting.

I think our role as mandated reporters is to call whenever we SUSPECT something. ANYTHING.

I have called CPS on several occasions over the last two decades and I can tell you under no uncertain terms that the biggest most shocking case was a mom that had everyone completely fooled.

There was not even the tiniest clue to the depths of what was really going on.

Classic case of what most providers would brush off as an "off day" or maybe even a little bit of bad parenting. That was NOT the case.

I HIGHLY recommend calling if you ever suspect anything. It could mean the difference between saving a child's life or not.

I could have justified every single "clue" or "sign" that went on with this family very easily but my gut just told me something was off.

I called based on my gut instincts.

Please don't ever hesitate to call.

If there is even a reason to make you ask if you should call, I think that is enough to make that call.

[Blackcat31]

Here are some really good threads about mandated reporting.

https://www.daycare.com/forum/tags.php?tag=mandated+reporter

[Angelsj]

I met a lady at a hair cutting salon. She seemed a little strange, but nice enough, and in need of care for her two little ones (5 and 2.) She came, interviewed and dropped kids the next Monday. All fine.

Throughout the day, I noticed some odd things about the kiddos. The little boy got sand on the BOTTOM of his shoes and freaked. I tapped them off, but he would not continue to wear them, so I let him go barefoot (summer time.)
The little girl made statements like she was used to caring for her brother. She acted more like his mother than his sister. Then, at one point, she noticed a bit of dirt on his face and basically melted down until I washed his face.

I just kept getting strange vibes. The mother arrived and had a complete freak out over the boy's shoes. I am talking about a tiny bit of sand on the BOTTOM of his shoes, not even on the sides.

She showed up in the middle of outside time, so both kids had sand on their hands, and were kid dirty. Not incredibly filthy, but dusty faces and hands, knees. Easily washed with a cloth or just give them a bath. Most of my parents LOVE that I have the kids outside so much and like seeing them "kid dirty." I do clean yucky, but dusty or slightly dirty knees, no biggie, right?? Wrong!!

She started melting down about how they were not riding home in her truck that way, etc. It was so over the top that I told her she could wash them up and that there was a hose in the back yard for the shoes if they were a problem. I even offered to get her a bag to put the shoes in.

When I came back outside, she was not only hosing off the shoes, but THE KIDS!!!! What???!! It was warm, so ok...I guess. I gave her the bag and told her I needed to go fix supper. 30 minutes later, she was still out there, using my water, to spray off the kids and the shoes. I stuck my head out of the back door and told her she needed to go, and that I would no longer be available to watch her children.

Sorry, the point. I called. I didn't really have much to go on, but it was so weird, that I called. Turns out, they already had a file on these kiddos, and 6 months later, they were removed from that home. I don't know what else was happening, but I am glad I called.