Every Single Day. Two Years

[jojosmommy]

I have a 23 month old daycare girl who is here 4 days a week. The family has been a client of mine since before this kiddo was born. She cries/tantrums every. Single. Day. When she determines nap is over. Ive done cio. I've gone in and put her back down and say good night. I've done the ignore it and just get her out at normal time. I've tried a lovey/baby doll. I've tried shhhhhh. Radio. Fan. Tried it. She is in her own room. But this is ridiculous. 23 months, everyday.

9 minutes. 45 minutes. 2 hours. No logic to it, when she determines nap it over she flips out.

What do I do?

Is this a learned behavior? Why would she keep doing this unless she was getting her way at home?

[Heidi]

Try a clock radio set at the time when nap is over, set the volume fairly loud. Tell her "I will come in when the music comes on". THen...stand by the door at 30 seconds before, and the second the music comes on, come in, open curtains, make a happy ruckus.

Rinse and repeat. If she wakes up before and screams, then it's her choice.

I'd give her a doll and a book. Tell her "if you wake up before the music comes on, nap time is not over. You can go back to sleep, or you can read your book". IF she throws them out...too bad.

I assume your nap time isn't 4 or 5 hours...

The idea is to give her some EXTERNAL indication that you are comming. Pavlow's Dogs???

[Willow]

Sounds like separation anxiety.

Wondering if she also gets worked up when you go into the bathroom and close the door or walk into another room where she can't see you?

How does her bond with mom and dad seem?

Do they seem like attentive loving parents or like people that may drop her in her crib and leave her there for as long as they want when it's convenient for them?


Issues surrounding sleep where they wake up like that every time are often the result of trauma or a trust in caregiver/attachment issue.

Fear and panic in a toddler can often read as a tantrum.

[Heidi]

Sounds like separation anxiety.

Wondering if she also gets worked up when you go into the bathroom and close the door or walk into another room where she can't see you?

How does her bond with mom and dad seem?

Do they seem like attentive loving parents or like people that may drop her in her crib and leave her there for as long as they want when it's convenient for them?


Issues surrounding sleep where they wake up like that every time are often the result of trauma or a trust in caregiver/attachment issue.

Fear and panic in a toddler can often read as a tantrum.

THat is a good point.

On that note, you may want to settle for shorter naps at first, until she understands the process of "dcp will come get me when the music comes on".

On the other hand, I've had children in my program who were clearly neglected (and living a battered womans shelter), and yet I could get them to nap here easily. The 2 can be connected, but sometimes it's just a power-play. Or, maybe they put her in her bed for "timeouts" at home, making bed a bad place vs. a cozy reprive.

[Meyou]

Sounds like separation anxiety.

Wondering if she also gets worked up when you go into the bathroom and close the door or walk into another room where she can't see you?

How does her bond with mom and dad seem?

Do they seem like attentive loving parents or like people that may drop her in her crib and leave her there for as long as they want when it's convenient for them?


Issues surrounding sleep where they wake up like that every time are often the result of trauma or a trust in caregiver/attachment issue.

Fear and panic in a toddler can often read as a tantrum.

I'm hijacking a little here but is it possible for a child to have separation anxiety at home and not at DC? I have a DCK under 2 who is a great sleeper for me. Walks to bed, waves good night and wakes with a smile and sings. I did do CIO with DCK when they started at 12 months with daily disclosure to Mom and Dad on how we were progressing.

But at home....DCK doesn't sleep. A few hours most nights with screaming tantrums and episodes that DCK's parents describe as hysterical and fearful like DCK is scared of their environment. DCK is controlling the entire family with sleep issues and now can climb out of the crib.

I think DCK is playing games with Mom and Dad but I'm not totally sure some days because they are such a good sleeper here. I have found they need very loud white noise and a very dark space for a good nap.

Thoughts?

[ksmith]

How often is she napping? Maybe she is napping too much?

[Willow]

I'm hijacking a little here but is it possible for a child to have separation anxiety at home and not at DC? I have a DCK under 2 who is a great sleeper for me. Walks to bed, waves good night and wakes with a smile and sings. I did do CIO with DCK when they started at 12 months with daily disclosure to Mom and Dad on how we were progressing.

But at home....DCK doesn't sleep. A few hours most nights with screaming tantrums and episodes that DCK's parents describe as hysterical and fearful like DCK is scared of their environment. DCK is controlling the entire family with sleep issues and now can climb out of the crib.

I think DCK is playing games with Mom and Dad but I'm not totally sure some days because they are such a good sleeper here. I have found they need very loud white noise and a very dark space for a good nap.

Thoughts?

Could be.

Could also just be anxiety in general which is pretty common when parents don't have the tools or desire to keep bedtime consistent.

If parents are wishy washy with a kiddos sleep routines and practices that can certainly be cause for MAJOR anxiety. Any time a child is in control it can scare them. They find comfort in predictability and consistency, in knowing they are being taken care of (not the other way around) and both positive and negative feedback is going to be offered to guide them to make good choices. If nothing about bedtime is predictable or feedback is inconsistent at best that creates fear and doubt in their caregivers.

Think about it like this...if every single morning a parent came in with a completely different extreme attitude - happy, sad, angry, anxious, over the moon, hating the world, melancholy, tearful, angry again etc etc etc - it wouldn't take long for you to start anticipating their arrival with dread, like oh gosh, what on earth are they going to come in with today?? You'd get to a point where that unpredictability would go so far as to create an anxiety you'd contemplate terming over right? Because who wants to deal with that insanity??

Now imagine being a child who is completely stuck living that routine every single day of their lives.

Couldn't blame them for being bonkers eh?



If your routine there was bright lights, silence and a scratchy blanket your dcb would still more than likely sleep just fine if that's what you had established. It's not how you go it but that you did at all, kwim?

[countrymom]

I will guarentee you that the minute she makes a noise, her parents come rushing in to get her, they do it at nap time and bed time. She is now use to it. I don't go in till nap is over, because sometimes I have kids go back to sleep. I think you need to find one thing and stick to it. It will take a bit because she is use to it, but it will work. Don't go in till nap is over, that is the worst thing ever.

[Heidi]

Could be.

Could also just be anxiety in general which is pretty common when parents don't have the tools or desire to keep bedtime consistent.

If parents are wishy washy with a kiddos sleep routines and practices that can certainly be cause for MAJOR anxiety. Any time a child is in control it can scare them. They find comfort in predictability and consistency, in knowing they are being taken care of (not the other way around) and both positive and negative feedback is going to be offered to guide them to make good choices. If nothing about bedtime is predictable or feedback is inconsistent at best that creates fear and doubt in their caregivers.

Think about it like this...if every single morning a parent came in with a completely different extreme attitude - happy, sad, angry, anxious, over the moon, hating the world, melancholy, tearful, angry again etc etc etc - it wouldn't take long for you to start anticipating their arrival with dread, like oh gosh, what on earth are they going to come in with today?? You'd get to a point where that unpredictability would go so far as to create an anxiety you'd contemplate terming over right? Because who wants to deal with that insanity??

Now imagine being a child who is completely stuck living that routine every single day of their lives.

Couldn't blame them for being bonkers eh?



If your routine there was bright lights, silence and a scratchy blanket your dcb would still more than likely sleep just fine if that's what you had established. It's not how you go it but that you did at all, kwim?

EXCELLENT ANSWER!!!:hug:Willow

I think that's why different extremes can work...whether it's AP or CIO, it's predictability and consistency that bring the child comfort.

[Willow]

EXCELLENT ANSWER!!!:hug:Willow

I think that's why different extremes can work...whether it's AP or CIO, it's predictability and consistency that bring the child comfort.

Exactly!

I was big on co-sleeping but when my kids spent time at their grandparents house they slept in sleeping bags on the floor out in the living room and did just fine because that's what was expected and reinforced every time they visited.

[Meyou]

Could be.

Could also just be anxiety in general which is pretty common when parents don't have the tools or desire to keep bedtime consistent.

If parents are wishy washy with a kiddos sleep routines and practices that can certainly be cause for MAJOR anxiety. Any time a child is in control it can scare them. They find comfort in predictability and consistency, in knowing they are being taken care of (not the other way around) and both positive and negative feedback is going to be offered to guide them to make good choices. If nothing about bedtime is predictable or feedback is inconsistent at best that creates fear and doubt in their caregivers.

Think about it like this...if every single morning a parent came in with a completely different extreme attitude - happy, sad, angry, anxious, over the moon, hating the world, melancholy, tearful, angry again etc etc etc - it wouldn't take long for you to start anticipating their arrival with dread, like oh gosh, what on earth are they going to come in with today?? You'd get to a point where that unpredictability would go so far as to create an anxiety you'd contemplate terming over right? Because who wants to deal with that insanity??

Now imagine being a child who is completely stuck living that routine every single day of their lives.

Couldn't blame them for being bonkers eh?



If your routine there was bright lights, silence and a scratchy blanket your dcb would still more than likely sleep just fine if that's what you had established. It's not how you go it but that you did at all, kwim?

This makes total sense with this parents. They are all over the place and although they have GREAT intentions they don't always do things right the first time. DCK came to me at 12 months without ever having had a bite of solid food because they weren't sure what babies eat with choking. I had to take pictures of what I was feeding DCK and email them to help them out.

Mom spent 2 months sleeping in the crib with DCK in the past to drive and help as well.