Here's Your Opportunity To Comment On "Universal Preschool" Proposed By Pres. Obama

[My3cents]

I am discussing this thread with hubby.

When I read him this comment he took a second and then cracked the heck up.
Said - if swimmer enrichment becomes the status quo we are DONE trying for more kids

The look on his face as his brain went there before the words came out was almost too much

I was going to read through all the post before responding and I just about blew coffee all over my screen::::::

Happy Friday everyone!!! I don't know if I will get to the end of this one before my morning time is up

[My3cents]

I disagree i went to pre-k. Actually i was in the first pre-k class that my school offered. I don't know what the regular kids learned beacuse they were at a different table from them. But our table was advanced there were only 5 of us. But we did 1st grade work i remember reading a book that was for 4th graders in pre-k. Nobody in my class had trouble sitting still. Im not sure what pre-k classes you have sat in on but they sound bad, unlike any i have ever looked in. Pre-k helps some kids and some it doesn't. I think it depends on the teacher

you might have gone to preschool but I doubt it was a pre-k government funded program.

[Meeko]

I realize I'm "old school" but since when did having a college degree become the criteria for whether you are smart enough to do a job successfully! It seems that WAY too much emphasis is placed on how much schooling an individual has.

I can ONLY speak from my own personal experience and I feel that all of this "formal" education is absolute nonsense...ESPECIALLY when we are talking about preschoolers! YIKES!!!!!!

My grandfather ran a very successful air conditioning/refrigeration business that he started from ABSOLUTELY nothing with ONLY a 7th grade education. He was forced to drop out of school at age 13 to help out with the family farm. He read books & self taught himself and was worth millions when he sold his business. It was hard work, but he truly lived the American dream!

My oldest son just got hired at Apple computer making over 100 grand a year at age 26 with NO college degree! Their criteria is "how do you think & problem solve & get along with others", which is something that no amount of classroom instruction will ever guarantee teaching an individual! I can proudly say he NEVER attended a preschool or pre k and my father who was a 6th grade teacher, advised me that the BEST thing I could do is to teach him how to play in the "sand box". He went on to public school and was in AP classes from the get go. He took college courses in high school and got straight A's. In college he dappled in music, simply because he loved it.

Interestingly enough this job he just got was not based on any of his college education! Through the interview process, they truly analyzed how he problem solved & MOST importantly "HOW HE GOT ALONG WITH PEOPLE"! Gee, what a novel idea especially coming from the leader in computer technology... Apple Corp.

Glad to get that off my chest... So done with people saying you are not smart without having a professor decide you are! Oh and BTW...I do have a college degree, NOT in ECE, but I have been very successful for 26+ years and LOVE what I do!!!!

There is an old man who lives 2 doors down from me. He is 92. The entire neighborhood celebrated his 90th birthday. My kids adore him because he is so fun to listen to to. He left school at 14 to help his mother raise his siblings and joined the marines as soon as he was able to and served in the South Pacific during WW2. He married and raised 6 children with his darling wife (who passed away 4 years ago). He only received a minimal formal education and I think he is one of the wisest, most "educated" men I have ever met.

[MN Mom]

Since we are speaking about education...here's an interesting article. The nation typically adopts it's text book use from Texas, so it wouldn't be absurd to think their standard curriculum could be next.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/07/cscope-exposing-the-nations-most-controversial-public-school-curriculum-system/

[snbauser]

A child doesn't necessarly need to attend one of these "programs" to be ready for kindergarten. Where are the parents in all of this?? My 7 yo did not attend preschool. He learned things from his home childcare provider and then I, as his parent, would spend time teaching him things to get him ready for school. During this time I worked outside the home 60+ hours per week but still made it a priority to get my own child ready for school because it was MY responsibility. He is now in 1st grade....he is in a 1st/2nd grade class this year and is doing exceptionally well. He is leaps and bounds ahead of other children who attended one of those "quality programs".

I think you hit the nail on the head. For anyone who has been in this profession for any length of time, think about how the children have changed. In many cases parents don't want to do much of anything with their children. They expect us to potty train, discipline, teach self help skills such as dressing, how to use utensils, etc, social skills, manners, etc along with academics. So while a child doesn't necessarily "need" to attend one of these programs, many parents will send their children just because they will not have to do the work with them and it will be free. If we don't participate in the program, then we won't be able to compete with free.

Here we have both Head Start and what is called NCPK which is the North Carolina Pre-Kindergarten program. NCPK is what used to be called More at Four and was run by our school system for those children that qualify either through income, military, or other needs such as mild developmental delays, speech therapy, OT, etc. Now it is run outside of our school system although the school system still does the evaluations for special needs. There are very strict guidelines on how you have to run your program if you want to participate (I looked into it when it was first rolling out but decided against it because of the stringent rules on how I would have to run my program such as not being able to celebrate holidays). It is requred to be a 6 hour program and most places that do participate run wrap around services such as before and after care. So the state pays the center for the 6 hours of NCPK and the parent pays for the b/a care. So as of now those of us that don't participate in NCPK have more of the middle income families that make too much to participate in either HS or NCPK. If/when universal preschool comes about, these parents will be gone as well unless we adapt and join with them.

[sammie]

Since we are speaking about education...here's an interesting article. The nation typically adopts it's text book use from Texas, so it wouldn't be absurd to think their standard curriculum could be next.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...iculum-system/

WOW.....scary!!

[Willow]

What about the people that voted for Gore but, Bush won? Gore had THE POPULAR VOTE but, the electoral college elected Bush...now you tell me that's fair. Not so much IMHO. The Electoral College also gave Obama his administration so what is the difference in that?

1. Obama won the electoral college *and* the popular vote the last election (even if it was literally just by a hair.)

2. Since when did I disagree that Gore/Bush was "fair?" Where would such an assumption even come from?? The electoral college system is archaic and broken period. It was adopted to balance the power of votes when people didn't have access to sufficient or reliable information on candidates. Obviously, that's no longer an issue and hasn't been for a very long time. No matter who eeks by taking advantage or it or not it still doesn't change the fact that it doesn't work and nowhere did I argue otherwise. This isn't grade school. I don't argue points in only one direction. I look at the facts.

3. What would it have to do with the price of tea in china even if someone here had brought up the issue of "fairness?" What does Gore/Bush have to do with the issue of universal preschool and Obama's push to start up a program with exact parallels to Head Start?

[Willow]

You keep referring to this publicly funded program that didn't work. The only program I know of is Head Start and there are longitudal studies that show that it DOES work. Can you please refer me to some statitistics that give me some proof that pre-k doesn't "work"?

I never said pre-k doesn't work.

What I stated is that an independent council was formed to evaluate HEAD START and declared it in their scathing report - an epic fail.


If you work for them I'm straight shocked you aren't aware of that evaluation and report. It's exactly why they lost vast amounts of funding and why people everywhere liberal and conservative admit it's something the government shouldn't continue to dump tax payer funds into.

I already provided one link to an article written in response to it. Here are a couple others though if you'd like to learn more about what they discovered studying the program from it's origins through to 2009:

http://graceuniversity.edu/iip/2011/07/11-07-30-2/

http://reason.org/news/printer/head-start-fail-federal-presch

In the above link, an analysis of the study results:

The study used a gold-standard, random assignment design and had a very large nationally representative sample. This was a well done study.

For students who were randomly assigned to Head Start or not at the age of 4, the researchers collected 19 measures of cognitive impacts at the end of kindergarten and 22 measures when those students finished 1st grade. Of those 41 measures, only 1 was significant and positive. The remaining 40 showed no statistically significant difference. The one significant effect was for receptive vocabulary, which showed no significant advantage for Head Start students after kindergarten but somehow re-emerged at the end of 1st grade.

The study used the more relaxed p< .1 standard for statistical significance, so we could have seen about 4 significant differences by chance alone and only saw 1. That positive effect had an effect size of .09, which is relatively modest.

For students randomly assigned to Head Start or not at the age of 3, the researchers also collected 41 measures of lasting cognitive effects. This time they found 2 statistically significant positive effects and 1 statistically significant negative effect. For the students who began at age 3 they showed a .08 effect size benefit from Head Start in oral comprehension after first grade and a .26 effect size benefit in Spanish vocabulary after kindergarten but a .19 effect size decline in math ability at the end of kindergarten. Again, 38 of the 41 measures of lasting effects showed no difference and the few significant effects, which could be produced by chance, showed mixed results.

It is safe to say from this very rigorous evaluation that Head Start had no lasting effect on the academic preparation of students.


This study and subsequent report came out in 2010. Obama has chosen to completely ignore the results and instead chooses to flat out LIE, continuing to tout benefits it obviously doesn't produce. Not only does he continue to stew in denial (or possibly just arrogance), but now he wants to start up ANOTHER IDENTICAL PROGRAM just like it while continuing to fund the old broken one as well (and under funding proven programs like the much more productive and cost effective DC Scholarship program...)

How is that for Obama's promise of only supporting "evidence-based education policies."

It's absolute madness.

[Willow]

I was going to read through all the post before responding and I just about blew coffee all over my screen::::::

Happy Friday everyone!!! I don't know if I will get to the end of this one before my morning time is up

You're welcome!

[Cat Herder]

I disagree with anything forced upon families.

If a parent decides to place their child in federally funded public preschool at 3-4 years of age that is what they should get.

If a parent decides they want their child in a private home childcare environment (like mine) then that should be what they get.

Forcing me to function like the federally funded public preschool, against my will, in my private home is a huge problem.

I should have the right to offer the services I choose. Parents should have the right to choose what services they want for their child.

[Country Kids]

Thank you My Angels foryour original post! I know you said to comment on this and you actually provided a link for that. Interesting how every one is commenting on here though and not the link you so nicely provided for us.

Interesting how we argue back and forth on issues here instead of emailing, writing, facebooking, making phone calls to the people that are in charge of these issues. I guess we are going to solve the whole issue on here instead of in Washington/our states where the leaders of our country/states reside.

My point: If you want something like this solved, take a stand and fight for it! Arguing on here is not going to solve anything.

I do have to say its an interesting subject and interesting points have been made. I think it would be wonderful though if everyone took their points, and contact someone higher up (email, call, write, facebook) and let them know how they feel. Flood their offices and have them see you point. You will never know if it will work unless you try-

[Cat Herder]

My point: If you want something like this solved, take a stand and fight for it! Arguing on here is not going to solve anything.

Flood their offices and have them see you point. You will never know if it will work unless you try-

I did send one saying that "creating jobs" by forcing out the very people who have been doing the job well for years, because they don't have (and can't afford) "degrees", does not actually accomplish anything.

Kids come out of high school (dual enrolled with a trade school at tax payer cost) with these new early childhood education "degrees" that do not transfer to actual colleges. They believe they are prepared to do the jobs. It is a laughable "solution". How does this translate to "quality"? They wash out in about a year.

The reply I got was "Thank you for your comments." in an email with a donation button.

[snbauser]

Thank you My Angels foryour original post! I know you said to comment on this and you actually provided a link for that. Interesting how every one is commenting on here though and not the link you so nicely provided for us.

Interesting how we argue back and forth on issues here instead of emailing, writing, facebooking, making phone calls to the people that are in charge of these issues. I guess we are going to solve the whole issue on here instead of in Washington/our states where the leaders of our country/states reside.

My point: If you want something like this solved, take a stand and fight for it! Arguing on here is not going to solve anything.

I do have to say its an interesting subject and interesting points have been made. I think it would be wonderful though if everyone took their points, and contact someone higher up (email, call, write, facebook) and let them know how they feel. Flood their offices and have them see you point. You will never know if it will work unless you try-

I commented in the link provided as well as here. I think it is very important for everyone to let their voices be heard but it is also important for conversations to happen around it so that everyone is as well informed as they can be.

[Scout]

What about that do you have a problem with?

If I want something I buy it.

I don't expect you to buy it. I don't expect my neighbors to buy it. I work, make money, and I buy it myself.

I contribute to charities of my choice and am incredibly generous....but I don't believe I should be forced to buy things some people in this country want that I don't believe are ethical or productive investments, nor things that they refuse to pay for themselves.

I am not trying to be rude and I know this doesn't apply to everyone on public assistance but, I find it sad that sometimes people assume everyone on it just doesn't give a d*** and is not trying to better their lives. There are plenty of hard working people who need help. To say that if you want something, you buy it and you don't expect anyone else to buy it is possibly sending the wrong message that you may not want people to interpret. The wording may not sound as you intended. Now, this is only my opinion but, I find it very unfair to group all people on public assistance as relying on our money to survive. Put yourself in someone else's shoes because you never know if one day it will be YOU relying on this help. A lot of these people are trying to better themselves and just can not find anything. That does not make them bad people. They could be teaching their children the same lessons that we do. You just don't know, none of us do. My last job, that I went through numerous company buyouts and changes through 15 years(my job being illiminated in 2009 and I had no choice but to "settle" for a job where I would never see a pay increase, which I didn't) was full of EXTREMELY HARD WORKING AMERICANS THAT do rely on public assistance to survive. This does not mean that they are not looking for better options because many of them do but, are stuck where they are. Some of these people can not leave a job because they need the medical or like me have been there so long that it is hard to imagine starting over somewhere and giving up all that seniority. I am just asking all of us to consider the opposite side for we never know when these situations may become OUR REALITY.

[Candy]

I am not trying to be rude and I know this doesn't apply to everyone on public assistance but, I find it sad that sometimes people assume everyone on it just doesn't give a d*** and is not trying to better their lives. There are plenty of hard working people who need help. To say that if you want something, you buy it and you don't expect anyone else to buy it is possibly sending the wrong message that you may not want people to interpret. The wording may not sound as you intended. Now, this is only my opinion but, I find it very unfair to group all people on public assistance as relying on our money to survive. Put yourself in someone else's shoes because you never know if one day it will be YOU relying on this help. A lot of these people are trying to better themselves and just can not find anything. That does not make them bad people. They could be teaching their children the same lessons that we do. You just don't know, none of us do. My last job, that I went through numerous company buyouts and changes through 15 years(my job being illiminated in 2009 and I had no choice but to "settle" for a job where I would never see a pay increase, which I didn't) was full of EXTREMELY HARD WORKING AMERICANS THAT do rely on public assistance to survive. This does not mean that they are not looking for better options because many of them do but, are stuck where they are. Some of these people can not leave a job because they need the medical or like me have been there so long that it is hard to imagine starting over somewhere and giving up all that seniority. I am just asking all of us to consider the opposite side for we never know when these situations may become OUR REALITY.