WWYD...Ethical Question...Pls Give Advice

[Crystal]

Totally agree Why should you lose income...and if you can't afford too then dont take part in the program....as the business owner you have choice. Yes, here too parents have a "co-pay/parent fee". But this proivder wants to charge on top of that..."which the program pprgram doesnot allow.

Look at it this way...if you get food stamps...should wal-mart limit the type of food you can buy???

Well, I'd like to say yes, and I DO think there should be limits as to what food you can buy with food stamps. It peeves me off to see people fill their cart with serious crap to feed their children, knowing that it will last a brief amount of time, is not nutritious and in a couple of weeks they will be going hungry. Grrrrr......soory for going off topic, but that kinda thing makes me angry

[greentea78]

I know in Washington State you can't charge the parents the difference if the state pays less. So if for example my day rate is $26 and the state rate is $22. I can't bill the parents the $4 rate difference. We can get in a lot of trouble if we do. Any co pay is taking out of the amount the state pays. Even with a copay you don't get more.

Personally while it is unethical, I would stay out of it. But then again, I'm a non-confrontational person so I may not be the best person to give you advice. Maybe contact your licensor.

[frugalmama4]

OP here

Man this is a hott topic

I love the feed back from this community.

To clarify or add more information to the topic, the provider is a friend...well some one I have been looking upto "respecting" as it relates to the daycare business..and lately I have been seeing a side of her I really don't like...makes me re-think our friendship. But, after all the fed back I realize it's not my business and I will stay out of it. Just really peeeees me off when I referred these people and she's trying to pull a fast one on them. I agree the parent should know her rights...but not everyone realize they have rights. And I know from dealing/taking to this provider she can come across as a big Bully very intimidating for some people.

On a personal note: Having received state assistance before for childcare & food & health...I don't think it's far to be pre-judged as some one not able to "pay their bills or some one who should get less food options then others or less health insurance"

Anywoo-I gotta go do some work to do "end of month"

Thanks yall for the vent.

[allsmiles]

i totally understand your frustrastion frugal.. i am in texas and you most certainly CANNOT charge a client the difference between what you normally charge and their authorized charges. as you said, you have the choice to accept state subsidized clients and if so you will need to follow their rules. This is explained in the providers training, probably in the parents as well, but i dont know..these programs are so understaffed who knows if they have time to explain every detail..i doubt that i would say anything but i also wouldnt report alot of other things either..

[nannyde]

I would really check into that. I do not believe this is accurate. There is no way the government can tell you you have to accept less for a child because they are state pay.

Typically the law is that you cannot charge state pay clients MORE than other families and you can require that they pay the difference between what you charge every other client and what the state pays.

The provider should recieve a 1099 from the state agency that will detail her payments recived and it is to be filed with her tax return, as it is reported directly to the IRS. She should also claim the other amount recieved from the parent, and if she does not the parent can still claim it and the IRS will contact the provider regarding the discrepancy in what she claimed as income and what was reported by her clients.

As far as the OP.....it really is none of your business, and calling up your client and talking about it would be more unethical than what the other provider is doing, IMHO.

In Iowa you can't charge the state more than you charge private pay but you can charge private paid more than the state pays. You must agree that you will not charge any additional fees for the state paid client beyond the copay the state may require the parents to pay. You can't have parents make up the difference between what the state pays and your private pay rates. If you charge 150 a week and the state max is 120 you can't ask or take the 30 from the parents. You must agree to only take the 120. If you take any money other than the 120 it is a crime and you will ne banned from accepting state funding clients.

[Crystal]

In Iowa you can't charge the state more than you charge private pay but you can charge private paid more than the state pays. You must agree that you will not charge any additional fees for the state paid client beyond the copay the state may require the parents to pay. You can't have parents make up the difference between what the state pays and your private pay rates. If you charge 150 a week and the state max is 120 you can't ask or take the 30 from the parents. You must agree to only take the 120. If you take any money other than the 120 it is a crime and you will ne banned from accepting state funding clients.

This is utterly ridiculous. I can understand not being able to charge more than you charge private pay, but to HAVE to accept less than you charge? No wonder so many providers will not accept state pay clients. Here, they pay what I charge or I can charge the parent the additional fees.

[frugalmama4]

i totally understand your frustrastion frugal.. i am in texas and you most certainly CANNOT charge a client the difference between what you normally charge and their authorized charges. as you said, you have the choice to accept state subsidized clients and if so you will need to follow their rules. This is explained in the providers training, probably in the parents as well, but i dont know..these programs are so understaffed who knows if they have time to explain every detail..i doubt that i would say anything but i also wouldnt report alot of other things either..

Thanks allsmiles...I will pray on it...and hope that the parent finds care elsewhere...

[frugalmama4]

This is utterly ridiculous. I can understand not being able to charge more than you charge private pay, but to HAVE to accept less than you charge? No wonder so many providers will not accept state pay clients. Here, they pay what I charge or I can charge the parent the additional fees.

Crystal,

I agree it ****s...it is the government after all.

These programs are no different then any other state assistance program...look at housing "government says on the south side of town the "moderate-income limit is $50,000 for a family of 4 this gives them free rent up to $800" and on the north side its $70,000 free rent up to 500" but my rental property is is worth 150,000 and rents for 1,300.00 a month. Well if I participate in the program and accepted the $800/$500 I can not charge the difference on the back in.

Yes, it ****s be time...but the law is the law and right is right. It's unfair to try and get over on someone like this. It's a choice to take the state pay families the state is not holding a gun to her "provider in question" head.

[nannyde]

This is utterly ridiculous. I can understand not being able to charge more than you charge private pay, but to HAVE to accept less than you charge? No wonder so many providers will not accept state pay clients. Here, they pay what I charge or I can charge the parent the additional fees.

I like your state system better. It's more fair.

[Starburst]

You may want to double check with your licensor

In Iowa you can't charge the state more than you charge private pay but you can charge private paid more than the state pays. You must agree that you will not charge any additional fees for the state paid client beyond the copay the state may require the parents to pay. You can't have parents make up the difference between what the state pays and your private pay rates. If you charge 150 a week and the state max is 120 you can't ask or take the 30 from the parents. You must agree to only take the 120. If you take any money other than the 120 it is a crime and you will ne banned from accepting state funding clients.

Like nannyde, crystal, and snips&snails pointed out it is different in every state and probably the type of child care. I'm in California, one of my ECE teachers used to do home daycare and is now the director of the preschool/daycare center at my college. They charge a flat monthly fee rate based on the schedualed attendence instead of a weekly or daily fee to avoid issues with the state as far as it only paying for "when the child is in attendence". But they say flat out in their contracts that parents on substidized programs are responsible for paying what the state doesn't pay (whether they get full coverage or not including late fees/field trip fees). They also can only have their child attend when they are at work or school (may be different if it is only for stricktly preschool instruction hours) and if they take their child to school on the days they don't work/go to school or extra curricular activities they are are expected to pay.

[snips&snails]

Wow here in California my subsidy person explained that the subsidy was intended to ASSIST parents in covering the cost, not to necessarily cover the full cost. Parents are expected to pay any difference between the state max & the provider's fees.

[Play Care]

Wow here in California my subsidy person explained that the subsidy was intended to ASSIST parents in covering the cost, not to necessarily cover the full cost. Parents are expected to pay any difference between the state max & the provider's fees.

I believe this is the case in my state, although I do not have anyone on state pay. We are told we can't charge a person on state pay more than private pay, but they are expected to make up the difference. In my mind a state that says you can't have the parent make up any difference is making it more difficult for parents on state pay to find child care

As for the tax thing - there was a provider in my town who would have parents pay under the table. Parents seemed to love her and she was always full. This was all private pay, though. I believe her rates were lower, because I can only imagine a hit it must be come tax time if you can't claim those credits.

[allsmiles]

Thanks allsmiles...I will pray on it...and hope that the parent finds care elsewhere...

[daycarediva]

This is utterly ridiculous. I can understand not being able to charge more than you charge private pay, but to HAVE to accept less than you charge? No wonder so many providers will not accept state pay clients. Here, they pay what I charge or I can charge the parent the additional fees.

I completely agree! I am legally allowed to charge the difference but i no longer accept state pay as I had a parent NOT working and didn't tell me. Subsidy caught up with her----two months later and I had to pay it ALL BACK. full time care, for TWO kids. I have a judgement in court against her, but I wont ever see a penny of that money as since she was no longer eligible for subsidized daycare, she went straight to welfare and has been living on the system ever since.

[MarinaVanessa]

I completely agree! I am legally allowed to charge the difference but i no longer accept state pay as I had a parent NOT working and didn't tell me. Subsidy caught up with her----two months later and I had to pay it ALL BACK. full time care, for TWO kids. I have a judgement in court against her, but I wont ever see a penny of that money as since she was no longer eligible for subsidized daycare, she went straight to welfare and has been living on the system ever since.

This peeves me . Why should you have to pay it back ?!?!?! You did your part so the parent that was dishonest should have to pay it back, not the hard working provider. Grr.

Im also in CA and my SIL forgot to report a raise that she had gotten at her job to her subsidy payment specialist and they dropped her from the program when they found out at her yearly re-evaluation. They also made her pay back EVERY CENT THAT THEY HAD EVER GIVEN HER. Another provider in a similar situation as OP had a client that was going to school and had subsidized child care during her school hours. Well she stopped going to class and dropped but still kept taking her child to DC. Well they asked for her grades and well she didn't have them so they made HER pay it all back, not the provider. THAT's what should happen, why should the honest people have to pay while the dishonest people get away with it.